Winter is coming: drive safe

[RZG]

Personally, the more I learn about driving, the more I appreciate every advantage available. I think the incremental cost of $200/yr for winter tires (in my case) is well worth the advantage. And NOTHING matters more on a car than tires.

It truly is "where the rubber meets the road"![/QUOTE]

I like to think that the dominant factor that wins most car or motorcycle races is.........tire choice. Why not select a winter tire as an advantage over 3 season tires, it`s your safety. Also public roads are littered with countless distracted `tards playing with some electronic gadget or the totally inept driving at 20 klicks on an inch of snow with the 4 ways on and the wipers on triple speed.

 

[fuji]

That's right. Take a vehicle with all seasons out of the city on a run say, between Toronto and Montreal on the 401, during a nasty storm , and you are essentially screwed with the all seasons. However , what I find even more ridiculous is guys who think they can get away with buying only two winter tires and leaving two all seasons on their vehicle Its laughable and akin to a person going out on a slippery winter surface, wearing a good winter boot on one foot, And a high healed shoe on the other foot. Morons

My biggest gripe is rental car companies. I no longer live in Toronto so when I'm in town I have a rental car.

Guess what? They NEVER put snow tires.

Drives me nuts. I don't just drive in the city, I drive out to visit people in other towns and I am sometimes on some pretty shitty roads. I've driven in to winterized cottages on their shitty all season tires and it's not fun.

I don't understand their mentality in not changing out the tires. Sure it's money, but so is damage to their vehicles surely?

Even worse, if you go skiing in places like Utah the rental car companies still only use all seasons even though they know most people will be driving to a ski hill, potentially in deep snow. FFS. You don't even know what vehicle you will be getting so you can't even bring chains, you just gotta get good at sliding around and hope you don't get stuck.

My own vehicle has Hakka's and AWD. So much better. Unfortunately it doesn't fit in my carry-on.

 

[SchlongConery]

All Seasons are only actually good in all seasons in places like Vancouver that doesn't really get much snow in winter.

In Ontario you need snow tires.

I think this is where the conflict arises.

"Need"

I would not be so definitive as to state that in southern Ontario (particularly if you live in an urban.suburban neighbourhood) you need winter tires. You can indeed get by on "All Season" tires. Many, many people do and don't crash or die etc.

But there is no factual basis to dispute that winter tires offer an advantage in stopping, directional control etc with superior traction.

Each person has to make up their own minds.

 

[whitewaterguy]

My biggest gripe is rental car companies. I no longer live in Toronto so when I'm in town I have a rental car.

Guess what? They NEVER put snow tires.

Drives me nuts. I don't just drive in the city, I drive out to visit people in other towns and I am sometimes on some pretty shitty roads. I've driven in to winterized cottages on their shitty all season tires and it's not fun.

I don't understand their mentality in not changing out the tires. Sure it's money, but so is damage to their vehicles surely?

Even worse, if you go skiing in places like Utah the rental car companies still only use all seasons even though they know most people will be driving to a ski hill, potentially in deep snow. FFS. You don't even know what vehicle you will be getting so you can't even bring chains, you just gotta get good at sliding around and hope you don't get stuck.

My own vehicle has Hakka's and AWD. So much better. Unfortunately it doesn't fit in my carry-on.

Same situation flying in to Edmonton and renting to get to jasper I've slid through a few intersections on shitty rental tires. I've had a variety of winter rubber on my numerous cars over the years. After I first tried Nokians back in 2000, on my 2000 maxima , I subsequently never turned to any other brand. I've had both studded and unstudded Hakkas on my cars, trucks and suv's ever since. They absolutely rock in winter, to the point where I rarely need to pop my f150 into 4x4, and they smoke away the other popular winter brands. The Finns have got their formula down pat.

 

[Mr Bret]

For the record, I'm 100% in favour of having snow tires on vehicles that will be driving in our Canadian winters.

I'm going to throw out an analogy for the guys here who claim they've been driving for years and have never needed winter tires. They've never had a problem, etc.
Gentlemen, good for you, I certainly wish you no ill will.

This is like a hobbyist who never uses a condom. You may go on having unprotected recreational sex with multiple partners for years and never have a problem. No STI, no unwanted pregnancies, nothing.
Again, good for you.
But you can not possibly suggest that this is a wise practice.

The way I see it, the use of snow tires and the use of condoms are quite similar.

 

[lomotil]

For the record, I'm 100% in favour of having snow tires on vehicles that will be driving in our Canadian winters.

I'm going to throw out an analogy for the guys here who claim they've been driving for years and have never needed winter tires. They've never had a problem, etc.
Gentlemen, good for you, I certainly wish you no ill will.

This is like a hobbyist who never uses a condom. You may go on having unprotected recreational sex with multiple partners for years and never have a problem. No STI, no unwanted pregnancies, nothing.
Again, good for you.
But you can not possibly suggest that this is a wise practice.

The way I see it, the use of snow tires and the use of condoms are quite similar.

Excellent analogy, we can take risks in life but when things go south, when it falls apart, man it really falls apart. When the shit hits the fan.......there can be agonizing, beguiling soul searching even more so if we are cognizant that there was indeed a better way that we ignored.

 

[fuji]

For the record, I'm 100% in favour of having snow tires on vehicles that will be driving in our Canadian winters.

I'm going to throw out an analogy for the guys here who claim they've been driving for years and have never needed winter tires. They've never had a problem, etc.
Gentlemen, good for you, I certainly wish you no ill will.

This is like a hobbyist who never uses a condom. You may go on having unprotected recreational sex with multiple partners for years and never have a problem. No STI, no unwanted pregnancies, nothing.
Again, good for you.
But you can not possibly suggest that this is a wise practice.

The way I see it, the use of snow tires and the use of condoms are quite similar.

Yeah. Another analogy:

I have never actually NEEDED my seatbelt. In all my years there hasn't once been a situation where it did me any good.

So am I going to stop wearing it?

On that one day when you finally you need it, you REALLY need it.

 

[Mr Bret]

Yeah. Another analogy:

I have never actually NEEDED my seatbelt. In all my years there hasn't once been a situation where it did me any good.

So am I going to stop wearing it?

On that one day when you finally you need it, you REALLY need it.

Good one.
Much more closely related to the original topic, but my mind tends to lean in a certain direction.

 

[SchlongConery]

Mr. Bret and fuji's analogies are good ones.

The upside on fuji's are that you do get the added benefit of better driving overall, and saving your all seasons to make them last longer.

On 2 of my previous vehicles I kept them long enough to go to a more summer optimized tire after the originals needed to be replaced, and then winters.

On another vehicle I had the factory tires replaced with summer tires when they were still new and sold them in the paper as like-new. So my optimized summer tires only cost me a couple of hundred extra. At the same time, I bought the winter tires so I got a great deal on the whole package.

From a friend in the tire business he says that this "take offs" market is bigger than we think.

I am thinking of buying a Tesla. I have driven my friends Tesla's and I really like it. Especially the quietness of it. However he has the hot rod model (P90?) and I find the tires are really noisy on the highway. He said lots of people on the Tesla forum say the same and they buy quieter tires. If I get one, I'll find out which ones they are and swap them out as soon as I take delivery. There is apparently a good market for used take-offs for Tesla OEM tires... what with damage, road hazards etc.

Formula One racing has taught me that the biggest difference in the performance of a car is optimizing the tire for the conditions. When Michelin and Bridgestone were competing F1 tire companies, races and championships were won or lost on tires.

 

[Mr Bret]

I think this visual is a pretty good summary of this thread.

http://imgur.com/gallery/bdx02n0

 

[FAST]

I think this visual is a pretty good summary of this thread.

http://imgur.com/gallery/bdx02n0

And how many of those cars were on "summer" tires,...???

FAST

 

[nottyboi]

And how many of those cars were on "summer" tires,...???

FAST

I wonder, when it comes to black ice, winter tires are better but only marginally. In either case you have little control. The only thing that helps on ice is studded tires and those are not allowed.

 

[lomotil]

I think this visual is a pretty good summary of this thread.

http://imgur.com/gallery/bdx02n0

There is discrimination at this club, "No Winter Tire Allowed"

 

[lomotil]

I wonder, when it comes to black ice, winter tires are better but only marginally. In either case you have little control. The only thing that helps on ice is studded tires and those are not allowed.

Chains and studded tires are essential in many parts of Canada, I know a trucker who travels through the Rockies in the winter and brings several changes of underwear.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commentary/why-its-time-to-rethink-allowing-studded-tires-in-southern-ontario/article32511013/

 

[FAST]

I wonder, when it comes to black ice, winter tires are better but only marginally. In either case you have little control. The only thing that helps on ice is studded tires and those are not allowed.

On this we can agree.

The video shown here of cars on a skating rink, the so called winter tires were studded, sorta makes the video a little untruthful, or at least not obvious, to some anyway.

FAST

 

[fuji]

I wonder, when it comes to black ice, winter tires are better but only marginally. In either case you have little control. The only thing that helps on ice is studded tires and those are not allowed.

They aren't just marginally better on ice. They are a LOT better on ice. Winter tires will cut your stopping distance in half on ice.

What's true is that the stopping distance with winter tires on ice is still a multiple of the stopping distance of regular tires on dry pavement.

But your statement is wrong.