it's a pain in the ass to buy and install them and costs money to store them. Some winters it doesn't even snow.
Winter is coming: drive safe
- Thread starter stinkynuts
- Start date
Keeping a safe distance would also have prevented this. Wherever and whenever I drive, I notice that the average distance between cars is about three times the distance that I keep between the car in front of me. I guess that's why most driver brake all the time. Why don't drivers smarten up and leave a bigger gap?
I have been driving since January 1968 and never had snow tires on any of my cars over the years. I have learned how to drive in winter weather conditions having driven commercially for the past 37 years. I have well over 3 million miles logged since getting my licence and have never had any problems in winter. So I do not feel that insecure of my driving that I need to spend the money to get snow tires as long as I have all season radials which will do me just fine.
So your insurance company is giving you a $75 discount for having snow tires. That's only $6.25 a month savings. How much did it cost for your tires balanced and installed. If you feel the need to have snow tires then spend your money. I don't need them.
Not that anybody is interested, but an experience I had a few years back.
Coming home from a customer on a 2 lane in the early winter, happened to notice a new car way off the road in a farmers field,...just did NOT look right.
I returned to looking at the road ahead, and saw what had happened, there in a shallow dip in the road, was a area of what was obviously earlier water run off, was now frozen solid.
I'm not talking "icy conditions" here, it was a couple of car length long at least, and covered both lanes.
So I'm saying to my self, shit, no way to stop before hitting this frozen pond in the middle of the highway, so I put the throttle at no accel or decel, did not obviously even go near the brakes, did not move the wheel.
Bear in mind, being a rear wheel drive pony car, did not help my chances in any way.
I made it out the other side with a little wiggle, and started to breath again.
I've had to put snows on a couple of "summer only" tires equipped cars, so I know the advantage.
The car I was driving had "no seasons", but snows would have not made any difference, if I didn't handle the situation correctly.
FAST
Coming home from a customer on a 2 lane in the early winter, happened to notice a new car way off the road in a farmers field,...just did NOT look right.
I returned to looking at the road ahead, and saw what had happened, there in a shallow dip in the road, was a area of what was obviously earlier water run off, was now frozen solid.
I'm not talking "icy conditions" here, it was a couple of car length long at least, and covered both lanes.
So I'm saying to my self, shit, no way to stop before hitting this frozen pond in the middle of the highway, so I put the throttle at no accel or decel, did not obviously even go near the brakes, did not move the wheel.
Bear in mind, being a rear wheel drive pony car, did not help my chances in any way.
I made it out the other side with a little wiggle, and started to breath again.
I've had to put snows on a couple of "summer only" tires equipped cars, so I know the advantage.
The car I was driving had "no seasons", but snows would have not made any difference, if I didn't handle the situation correctly.
FAST
At 7C. your all season tires start to harden up and loose traction. As the temperature dips you loose more traction. I have 4 winter tires with 4 rims that I can swap out in 30 minutes as I am equipped with the pro garage style car jack, and a compressor air gun to remove the wheel nuts.
All you really need to convince yourself that winter tires are a good idea is to dive a car with winter tires on a winter storm, or be caught in an uncontrollable skid without winter tires.
All you really need to convince yourself that winter tires are a good idea is to dive a car with winter tires on a winter storm, or be caught in an uncontrollable skid without winter tires.
I will disagree with you on that statement. If you had winter tires in the same situation you would have a higher degree of control.
I used to believe the difference was minimal until I did my own research.
This is an interesting video, interesting in that it compares the different types of tires in the two different seasons.
I take it that you are confident in your driving abilities and there is nothing wrong with that as I wish more people were. However you cannot control those around you who do not have that same amount of confidence.
If you have seen the video, the one time where dedicated winter tires paid off for me was at a stop light. In my rear view mirror I seen some yahoo fishtailing towards me completely out of control and on a course to rear-end me. I took a quick look at both sides around me and there was no traffic and pressed on the gas to get out of his way. I was able to quickly gain traction and move forward to where he just slightly grazed me. I am 100% positive that had I not had dedicated winter snows he would have plowed right into me.
The other challenge is that no matter how confident or prepared you are, road conditions can change in an instant. The video clearly identifies that at a normal driving pace, dedicated winter tires provide much more traction and can be the difference between going into the ditch or running in to the other lane.
The other important point of the video is that it confirms that all season tires are the best choice for summer or rainy conditions.
Generally tires will last either a specific number of kilometers (tread wear) or a number of years (before the rubber gets old and brittle).
Switching between your winter and all season tires will extend the life of the all season tires to cover the cost of the winter tires. Basically, for the cost of a set of rims (steelies if you want to save money), your actual tire cost does not change.
A couple of other advantages of winter dedicated tires are:
* If you use steel rims you save your summer rims from the salt on the winter roads
* Most (if not all) insurance companies give you a discount when you use dedicated winter tires (which cover the cost of the rims).
Personally, I have used dedicated winter tires for a decade or more and I firmly believe they have saved my bacon more than once during some severe winter conditions. I am not one of those assholes who go hog wild just because I have snows as I still drive to the conditions.
I believe there is nothing wrong with having the best set of rubber underneath you for all 12 months of the year, considering that there is really no added cost in the long run.
Have to disagree also,...as I said, this was NOT "icy conditions", but a frozen pond, in the middle of the highway, with a car at highway speeds,...you do NOT have control, if you try to "control" any input to the car, you are gone.
Experienced drivers know, that if you hit this condition, do nothing, I don't care what tires you have, do nothing.
And another point, you can get into an "uncontrollable spin",...with ANY tire.
FAST
Storage is only an issue for people without a garage, driveway, backyard, or owned parking spot. If you have them installed on a separate set of rims, switching them over yourself is not exactly onerous.
On one hand, you say you've "learned how to drive in winter weather conditions having driven commercially for the past 37 years." On the other, you say "when the weather is bad and reports say stay off the roads, I do just that."
If you can pick and choose when and where you drive and avoid poor driving conditions then you can probably get away with all seasons. If you're like most people who drive every day and don't have the option to leave their car where it is in case of a snow fall, then winter tires is the logical choice.
I too have a vast amount of driving experience. In addition to many years as a licenced driver, I also have 30+ years racing cars in the US and Canada in the dry, rain and snow and ice. I'm also a high performance driving instructor. Believe me, I don't put winter tires on my car because I feel insecure in my ability to drive in the snow. I put them on because I know that if encounter a hill covered in snow and ice, I want to be sure I can make it up without getting stuck and being able to stop if I have to, on the way down.
Like I said before, it's physics. I don't care how good a driver you are. Under identical snow/ice conditions, there's no way you can stop as quickly with all season vs. winter tires. The videos posted in this thread confirm just that.
I remember a friend telling me about what convinced him to put winters on his AWD BMW. He was driving down Spadina near Casa Loma. At the bottom of the hill is a set of lights at Davenport. He said he only going about 20 km/h due to the grade and conditions. When he saw the light go amber he applied the brakes. He was still a fair distance from the intersection with no vehicles ahead of him. But he simply could't stop. He was pressing the brake as hard as he could, the ABS was making its usual noises but he wasn't stopping. Just before he got to the intersection, two vehicles crossed in front of him, from opposite directions. One was a large cube van. He continued to slide straight through the red, narrowly missing them.
A couple seconds difference either way and he would have been t-boned by the cube van. After feeling like he just cheated death, he bought winters the next day. He also said he should have listened to me, as I tell all my friends they're nuts to drive on all seasons year-round.
I think we are missing an important point here.
If you have a film of slush between you tires and the road, it doesn't matter what the temperature rating of the tire is, what is actually more important is tire width in that condition.
I have use all three types in the snow, "summer only", which tend to be wide and not a lot of open tread, "no season" which tend to be narrower with more open thread, and snows, which are more narrow, and obviously are designed for colder temps.
Doesn't matter what the temp is, if you have a lubricant between your tire and the road, there isn't going to be much difference between no seasons and snows, because your tires are NOT in contact with the road.
FAST
PS: I have to believe that a good % of accidents are cause by pure stupidity, ever notice how far too many are flying around in blissfully unaware of what the conditions are.
I am always aware of what the conditions are, testing every so often.
And what always gets me,..."the driver lost control of his/her car,...", never,..."the driver went around a corner too fast,...and crashed".
If you have a film of slush between you tires and the road, it doesn't matter what the temperature rating of the tire is, what is actually more important is tire width in that condition.
I have use all three types in the snow, "summer only", which tend to be wide and not a lot of open tread, "no season" which tend to be narrower with more open thread, and snows, which are more narrow, and obviously are designed for colder temps.
Doesn't matter what the temp is, if you have a lubricant between your tire and the road, there isn't going to be much difference between no seasons and snows, because your tires are NOT in contact with the road.
FAST
PS: I have to believe that a good % of accidents are cause by pure stupidity, ever notice how far too many are flying around in blissfully unaware of what the conditions are.
I am always aware of what the conditions are, testing every so often.
And what always gets me,..."the driver lost control of his/her car,...", never,..."the driver went around a corner too fast,...and crashed".
I beg to differ. Winter tires are designed with wider sipes and larger tread block to disperse snow and slush. Softer rubber provides better grip on ice. Given identical ice/slush/snow conditions, winter tires will always outperform the other two.
Agreed, but my point is that on slush, there isn't much difference between no seasons, and snows, because of the layer of slush between the tire and the road.
Don't even think about summer only, tried that with my 330ci, wouldn't stop go or turn, made to work and back in one piece, while people with no seasons were spinning and crashing all around me, idiots.
Had to buy aluminum for snows, because steel wasn't available then for that car.
FAST
Slush is actually an example of where winter tires with their many sipes, blocky tread and soft compound are vastly superior to All Seasons. The winter tires will displace the slush much more quickly.
Frankly, any of the arguments against winter tires are selective post-facto justification to defend your emotional decision.
There is no factual basis to state that "All Season" tires perform as well as "Winter" tires in winter conditions. You may make the argument that you are such an incredible driver (who doesn't think they are the best driver and everyone else is an "asshole"?!? lol!) or that you don't feel there is sufficient value or need for your particular situation. But it is indisputable to anyone with knowledge, that winter tires provide superior traction in winter conditions compared to All Season tires.
Personally, the more I learn about driving, the more I appreciate every advantage available. I think the incremental cost of $200/yr for winter tires (in my case) is well worth the advantage. And NOTHING matters more on a car than tires.
It truly is "where the rubber meets the road"!
Frankly, any of the arguments against winter tires are selective post-facto justification to defend your emotional decision.
There is no factual basis to state that "All Season" tires perform as well as "Winter" tires in winter conditions. You may make the argument that you are such an incredible driver (who doesn't think they are the best driver and everyone else is an "asshole"?!? lol!) or that you don't feel there is sufficient value or need for your particular situation. But it is indisputable to anyone with knowledge, that winter tires provide superior traction in winter conditions compared to All Season tires.
Personally, the more I learn about driving, the more I appreciate every advantage available. I think the incremental cost of $200/yr for winter tires (in my case) is well worth the advantage. And NOTHING matters more on a car than tires.
It truly is "where the rubber meets the road"!
Statistically, snow tires do result in fewer accidents and generally better control than other tires. Quebec's mandatory snow tire law has proven this. The insurance companies also realize that snow tires reduces accidents and they have sometimes produced incentives to policy holders to use snow tires as their actuaries have projected their positives. Snow tires are not a panacea and who knows maybe superior drivers in this forum may not derive any advantage from them, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Nailed it 100%! ^^^
The superior drivers in this forum would be the first to tell you the indisputable advantage of winter tires vs. all seasons on snow, slush and ice.
Take identical vehicles. One with winter tires, the other with all seasons. Put any of the world's top racecar drivers behind the wheel. They will not be able to stop the one with all seasons in a shorter distance (on snow and ice) than the one with winters. Anyone who doesn't believe this is simply delusional.
That's right. Take a vehicle with all seasons out of the city on a run say, between Toronto and Montreal on the 401, during a nasty storm , and you are essentially screwed with the all seasons. However , what I find even more ridiculous is guys who think they can get away with buying only two winter tires and leaving two all seasons on their vehicle Its laughable and akin to a person going out on a slippery winter surface, wearing a good winter boot on one foot, And a high healed shoe on the other foot. Morons
