Will You Quit Hobbying If A Nordic Model is Implemented In Canada?

[wilbur]

Nothing stopping them from enacting bawdy house and solicitation laws so long as they exempt the escort from prosecution. And you are underestimating the ability of police to nail people for prostitution offenses. Catching you with your pants down with a known prostitute and money on the dresser, it won't matter what you said.

So a bawdy house would only a be bawdy house for the buyer, not the seller? It wouldn't make any legal sense, (and that's why it's still illegal for a prostitute to be a found-in in Sweden). They would have to be caught in the act, like in a bust. First, the cops would have to get a search warrant to enter the premises of a sex-worker, an innocent person before the law, before anything illegal took place. Would a Justice of the Peace issue a search warrant to enter the premises of a person who is not suspected of doing anything wrong, and against her will? Starting to sound like a police state. The possibilities keep growing. If it was at all possible, imagine that the cops assumed, but no reasonable cause, that the sex-worker smokes pot in her place; they would just have to get a search warrant in order to bust a john, and if that doesn't work, they can arrest her once inside with possession of pot. Lawyers would have a field day using the Charter of Rights.

No, application of the Nordic Model would be a can of worms in Canada. They would have a better chance of enforcement if money for sex was illegal for both parties. But It would be interesting to know how they would do it, if they did try, though.

 

[asterwald]

Wow...the paranoia is in full swing here... Undercover cops actually coming on places like TERB using fake handles and trying to lure johns? Would they really stoop that low to catch some of us? I can't imagine it being very hard to spot these guys, just look at their posting history and when they joined, flag them and ban them from the site. Hell ban anyone you find suspect. and no seasoned hobbyist is going to be stupid enough to see an sp that isn't verified on TERB and has no reviews on her especially if this law is put into effect.

They can become mods. It would be difficult then.

 

[james t kirk]

Oh, the good ole days (like a couple of months ago)

There was really no need to fuck with the laws that were already in place now was there.

 

[TeasePlease]

No, application of the Nordic Model would be a can of worms in Canada. They would have a better chance of enforcement if money for sex was illegal for both parties. But It would be interesting to know how they would do it, if they did try, though.

Wilbur, I disagree with many premises in your analysis. For one thing, there's nothing in the Charter that guarantees the right to a profession much less the right to buy or sell sex.

All the hypotheticals that you raise can be resolved. For one thing, we can bet that the police will run more stings (no issue with entrapment in Canada). You don't need a bawdy house to be a purchaser of sex, so I'm not sure where that major assumption in your analysis comes from. All the cops need is to witness an utterance of an offer for trade and you're fucked. You don't have to be naked, caught in the act or balls deep in a midget porn star with peanut butter smeared on your chest.

I do agree that the simplest thing to do in terms of enforcement is to ban the trade outright. But let's keep that between you and me.

What the adoption of the Nordic model will mean is that all the risk transfers to the clients. It will make business more difficult for unknown indy girls, and unknown agencies. I'd be super wary of stings.

 

[D-Fens]

They can become mods. It would be difficult then.

It's very unlikely the police would resort to trolling TERB to catch people. and they would really need to go to great lengths to look authentic. Any Seasoned hobbyist can spot a fake.

Lots of tinfoil hats in here... Nothing has even been passed yet and some of you are acting like they've already put you on the Top 10 most wanted list.

 

[D-Fens]

Frequenting an incall falls (or used to, until the SCC decision) under s.210(2)(b) of the Criminal code: "(2) Every one who...(b) is found, without lawful excuse, in a common bawdy-house" ..."is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction."

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-109.html#h-70

and if the cops were really serious about enforcing this law, I would have been charged a long time ago. I've been going to "bawdy houses" since 2006. We don't know how seriously the cops are going to enforce these new laws. I think the internet has really made things easier for SPs and hobbyists. I doubt Canada will try to shut this site down. France tried it, it didn't work. The internet is almost impossible to police. prostitution is completely illegal in the states, and you can still find escort review sites just like this one, for US cities.

 

[D-Fens]

It's actually quite funny to watch the testimony that one of the police officers involved in monitoring cyber-criminality gave in October when the National Assembly was debating the Nordic Model:

http://videos.assemblee-nationale.fr/video.4810.1938385

In summary, she was saying that implementing the Nordic Model when it comes to the Internet just wouldn't work. The MPs sitting on the committee debating the project, were asking her all sorts of questions about hypothetical situations and what could be done in terms of investigating them under the Nordic Model. Her answers were nearly always that they would be very difficult to investigate, and that this is more easily done under the old laws.

I would like to watch this, but I don't understand French, I wish there were subtitles.

 

[Vixens]

It is a cultural problem in Sweden their goverment has been taken over by radical feminists. If they try and push the Nordic law here, it will get more resistance and protest they it did there.

All we are doing is speculating. Thinking of the worst case scenarios. If these laws do come into effect, I may take a long break from hobbying, just to see how seriously LE is taking it. and just see how things are going. I don't hobby that much, I am already very selective over the girls I see and I would never see someone who advertised on back page or criags list and I don't cruise the streets picking up hookers at street corners. Never have never will.

Let's just see what happens. Whatever does happen life goes on we have to find a way to cope.

“The prostitute is not, as feminists claim, the victim of men, but rather their conqueror, an outlaw, who controls the sexual channels between nature and culture”


― Camille Paglia

Also,

“Moralism and ignorance are responsible for the constant stereotyping of prostitutes by their lowest common denominator -- the sick, strung-out addicts, couched on city stoops, who turn tricks for drug money. . . . The most successful prostitutes in history have been invisible. That invisibility was produced by their high intelligence, which gives them the power to perceive, and move freely but undetected in the social frame. The prostitute is a superb analyst, not only in evading the law but in initiating the unique constellation of convention and fantasy that produces a stranger’s orgasm. She lives by her wits as much as her body. She is a psychologist, actor, and dancer, a performance artist of hyper-developed sexual imagination.”

― Camille Paglia

 

[D-Fens]

Nobody knows anything.

All you are doing is speculating calm down. You are acting as if these new laws have already been passed. You've already stopped seeing escorts, so I don't see why it even matters anymore.

 

[spraggamuffin]

For those who choose to continue, there may now be additional risks.

Blackmail and extortion by Pimps and their girls.

Not to mention if your life becomes endangered you are less likely to call for help.

 

[D-Fens]

The reason I stopped had nothing to do with possibility of new laws though what worries me is if definition of sex extends also to touching and kissing and then strip bars private dances will be outlawed too. Also the fact that I have stopped doesn't stop me from being concerned about the safety of sex workers which would be badly jeopardized under Nordic laws some of whom I have seen and have got intimate so I still care not to mention I don't want to see law abiding citizens' lives destroyed for some stupid imported laws by religious fanatics and ultra conservatives.

If the Nordic law does get proposed it will be a "Canadian Version" whatever that means we don't know. A lot can happen from now to when they try and push this law it is a very complex issue and a lot of considerations need to be made.

 

[D-Fens]

For those who choose to continue, there may now be additional risks.

Blackmail and extortion by Pimps and their girls.

Not to mention if your life becomes endangered you are less likely to call for help.

not an issue if you stick with reputable sps who verified on TERB and Falizar. Blackmail and Extortion aren't good for business. Thanks to the internet everyone would know if a certain sp tried to extort more money from a client and her business would be done because every hobbyist would know to avoid her. That's why we have sites like this and why they are so important to the hobby.

 

[MattRoxx]

For those who choose to continue, there may now be additional risks.

Blackmail and extortion by Pimps and their girls.

Not to mention if your life becomes endangered you are less likely to call for help.

I'd just laugh if an SP "threatend" to blackmail me!
"You want to admit to the world that a young hottie like you has been having sex with an old gray haired geezer like me...be my guest! Wait, before you call TMZ with this earth-shattering inside information let me get a picture of us in bed together so I can post it on Facebook"

 

[MattRoxx]

If the Nordic law does get proposed it will be a "Canadian Version" whatever that means we don't know. A lot can happen from now to when they try and push this law it is a very complex issue and a lot of considerations need to be made.

Worse than being a "Canadian Version", it will be a Harper Government version.
If we can go based on their cannabis law fuckups, it will be much worse than the Nordic model - higher fines, mandatory minimums, 3 strikes rules.
Conservatives think that any behaviour they find immoral or otherwise don't like, must be made illegal, and in the harshest way possible. It ain't gonna be pretty.

 

[wilbur]

I'd just laugh if an SP "threatend" to blackmail me!
"You want to admit to the world that a young hottie like you has been having sex with an old gray haired geezer like me...be my guest! Wait, before you call TMZ with this earth-shattering inside information let me get a picture of us in bed together so I can post it on Facebook"

Some people have nothing to lose, especially if they are trying to finance a habit, or their pimp is going to smack them another black eye. They don't care if their picture is on Facebook. They don't even have to have had sex with you. Just call the cops and complain that a bad john gave her the black eye and stole her money (that you were about to give her). Big can of worms. Society will have legislated legal sympathy for the sex-worker, and none for you, the criminal exploiter of 'women and girls'.

 

[D-Fens]

Some people have nothing to lose, especially if they are trying to finance a habit, or their pimp is going to smack them another black eye. They don't care if their picture is on Facebook. They don't even have to have had sex with you. Just call the cops and complain that a bad john gave her the black eye and stole her money (that you were about to give her). Big can of worms. Society will have legislated legal sympathy for the sex-worker, and none for you, the criminal exploiter of 'women and girls'.

What kind of Sps are you seeing?

If they are a reputable agency or provider who actually cares about repeat business they won't do that. If you are visiting sps who have "nothing to lose" and a pimp who smacks them around. Well then... stop seeing sps who advertise on back page and other shady venues who aren't reviewed or verified on TERB. It is already risky to that under old our old laws.

 

[drlove]

Juries and judges are really good at cutting through double speak and figuring out what was really going on. Criminals in many areas try this sort of trick, but still wind up in jail. Proof in court is not mathematical proof, it's convincing a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, and juries aren't dumb.

Enforcement would be the same as in the US but without charges against the SP, and they do bust lots of people.

You could always just stick with a known reputable SP.

 

[MattRoxx]

What kind of Sps are you seeing?

If they are a reputable agency or provider who actually cares about repeat business they won't do that. If you are visiting sps who have "nothing to lose" and a pimp who smacks them around. Well then... stop seeing sps who advertise on back page and other shady venues who aren't reviewed or verified on TERB. It is already risky to that under old our old laws.

Yeah I don't see those type of service providers, ever. And I'm a frail old man, an angry woman could kick the crap out of me, the police would probably laugh at the idea of me giving anyone a black eye.
This reminds me of the Safe Sex Survey that was being done by researchers at Univ. of Victoria. There was a whole section with questions about violent experiences or encounters with sex workers. It was so foreign to me.

But the real point is, I am not going to allow to let this government to terrorize me, or frighten me with any laws deciding which women they will allow me to fuck. I do not believe they have the authority to legislate what consenting adults do in private.

 

[drlove]

But the real point is, I am not going to allow to let this government to terrorize me, or frighten me with any laws deciding which women they will allow me to fuck. I do not believe they have the authority to legislate what consenting adults do in private.

I really hope you're right... I don't want Canada to end up like the States. The thing is, Harper has a majority and can pretty much do what he wants, including passing an unconstitutional law which will control the masses for a short time until the law is again challenged. I'm hoping that his legal team will run into problems drafting the legislation, but from what I hear, they are planning to ram it through regardless. That said, the whole thing strikes me as bizarre that a supposedly democratic country would have laws that govern what consenting adults can and cannot do in private. Having someone's uber moralistic views forced on society at large sickens me... there's got to be a way to stop that from happening. I wish ************ Trudeau were Prime Minister right now...

 

[drlove]

Why is the name P I E R R E censored?