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Why is the US so mired in the ways of the past...?

Aardvark154

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Ups, I missed Germany. It is true for Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway
Most of the others as well. Sweden was the "Bully Boy" of Europe in the seventeenth century. Finland at that time was part of Sweden later as part of the Napoleonic Wars it came under Russian Control (indeed many of the Colonists of New Sweden were ethnically Finns). As I'm sure you know Denmark-Norway was a major player in the Kalmar War, although things didn't go nearly so well in the Thirty Years War, the Northern Wars or the Napoleonic Wars; having possessions in northern Germany and Estonia not to mention the more traditional places Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands and also colonies in West Africa, the West Indies and India.
 

rld

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Most of the others as well. Sweden was the "Bully Boy" of Europe in the seventeenth century. Finland at that time was part of Sweden later as part of the Napoleonic Wars it came under Russian Control (indeed many of the Colonists of New Sweden were ethnically Finns). As I'm sure you know Denmark-Norway was a major player in the Kalmar War, although things didn't go nearly so well in the Thirty Years War, the Northern Wars or the Napoleonic Wars; having possessions in northern Germany and Estonia not to mention the more traditional places Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands and also colonies in West Africa, the West Indies and India.
I was thinking the same thing, but you beat me to it.

Dan always has a funny view of history.
 

simon482

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Feb 8, 2009
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Simon there really is no polite way to put this. The above is utterly incorrect, in fact Rockslinger was correct in what he posted.
I said china instead of japan. Only part of what I said that is wrong. I will give links and proof later. I'm stuck in customs right now.
 

Aardvark154

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I said china instead of japan. Only part of what I said that is wrong. I will give links and proof later. I'm stuck in customs right now.
Rockslinger wrote:
The U.S. was isolationist in WW I and II and they still got dragged into a shooting war anyway.
To which you replied:

except for the part where they were providing weapons and supplies to the russians who were fighting china which caused china to attack pearl harbour. they [i.e. the U.S.A.] were sticking their name in everyone's business, always have. they would not be getting attacked or dragged into things if they truly stayed out of other peoples business.
How was the Soviet Union engaged in a War with the Republic of China during the period 1935 - 1945?

In what way was the U.S.A. "sticking their name [presumably you mean nose] into everyone's business" during that time period?

Now it is true some people say that the U.S. "drove Japan into war." Needless to say there is another point of view. That Japanese actions in China including the Rape of Nanking lead to the U.S. renunciation of the 1911 Treaty of Commerce and Navigation. That the 1940 export of essential defense materials acts were not truly aimed at Japan. That the July 1941 Freezing of Japanese assets in the U.S. and the complete prohibition of oil exports to Japan were in response to the Japanese invasion of French Indochina and continued warfare in China. To say that this constituted the U.S. "sticking its nose into everyone's business" is really to say that humanitarian concerns should never play any role in diplomacy or national policy.
 

Prim0

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Prim0, I didn't mean to sound as though I was criticizing. The US is a great country, but it just seems to be constantly "stuck" lately. I have explained to my kids many times that part of the US's problem is that it is EXTRAORDINARILY expensive being the World's Policeman. I think that they relish that job, but I also suspect that they wouldn't mind a little help now and again.

And I don't recall Saturday mail, but I'm not young either. The importance of mail ain't what it used to be either though.

And what should I call an "assault rifle" then? A hunting rifle? A baseball bat?
Okay...maybe I overreacted a little. But those of us in the states that believe in the country and in the constitution and in freedom and self reliance are getting a lot of crap from every direction.
 

elmo

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Okay...maybe I overreacted a little. But those of us in the states that believe in the country and in the constitution and in freedom and self reliance are getting a lot of crap from every direction.
That's because your country is going to shit. The good news is that you, the citizens, can fix it if there is enough of you with the will to do so. Best of luck.
 

Rockslinger

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Most of the others as well. Sweden was the "Bully Boy" of Europe in the seventeenth century. Finland at that time was part of Sweden later as part of the Napoleonic Wars it came under Russian Control (indeed many of the Colonists of New Sweden were ethnically Finns). As I'm sure you know Denmark-Norway was a major player in the Kalmar War, although things didn't go nearly so well in the Thirty Years War, the Northern Wars or the Napoleonic Wars; having possessions in northern Germany and Estonia not to mention the more traditional places Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands and also colonies in West Africa, the West Indies and India.
Is there any country, other than Ireland, that has never occupied somebody else's land at some point in their history?
 

simon482

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Feb 8, 2009
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Rockslinger wrote:

To which you replied:

How was the Soviet Union engaged in a War with the Republic of China during the period 1935 - 1945?

In what way was the U.S.A. "sticking their name [presumably you mean nose] into everyone's business" during that time period?

Now it is true some people say that the U.S. "drove Japan into war." Needless to say there is another point of view. That Japanese actions in China including the Rape of Nanking lead to the U.S. renunciation of the 1911 Treaty of Commerce and Navigation. That the 1940 export of essential defense materials acts were not truly aimed at Japan. That the July 1941 Freezing of Japanese assets in the U.S. and the complete prohibition of oil exports to Japan were in response to the Japanese invasion of French Indochina and continued warfare in China. To say that this constituted the U.S. "sticking its nose into everyone's business" is really to say that humanitarian concerns should never play any role in diplomacy or national policy.
u.s was giving supplies and aid and soldiers before getting attacked at pearl harbour The military history of the United States during World War II covers the war against Japan, Germany and Italy starting with the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. During the first 2 years of the global conflict, the United States had maintained formal neutrality, while supplying Britain, the Soviet Union and China with war material through Lend-Lease, as well as deploying the US military to replace the British invasion forces in Iceland one of many saying they got bombed for sending supplies.

another link saying the u.s was giving supplies and support to people they thought were doing the best for the u.s in the war. they picked sides before getting involved by giving supplies and got attacked for giving supplies http://www.history.co.uk/explore-history/ww2/us-entry-and-alliance.html

the land lease agreement which gave aide and led japan to attack the u.s causing the u.s to go to war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
 

Aardvark154

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u.s was giving supplies and aid and soldiers before getting attacked at pearl harbour The military history of the United States during World War II covers the war against Japan, Germany and Italy starting with the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. During the first 2 years of the global conflict, the United States had maintained formal neutrality, while supplying Britain, the Soviet Union and China with war material through Lend-Lease, as well as deploying the US military to replace the British invasion forces in Iceland one of many saying they got bombed for sending supplies.

another link saying the u.s was giving supplies and support to people they thought were doing the best for the u.s in the war. they picked sides before getting involved by giving supplies and got attacked for giving supplies http://www.history.co.uk/explore-history/ww2/us-entry-and-alliance.html

the land lease agreement which gave aide and led japan to attack the u.s causing the u.s to go to war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
Yes, the U.S.A provided Lend-Lease supplies to the U.K. from March 1941 on. Previously (September 1940) there had been the so called "Destroyers for Bases Agreement."

Before U.S. entry into the War, Lend-Lease was entirely focused on the War in Europe and has what to do with the comming of the War in the Pacific?

Yes the U.S. garrisoned Iceland and Greenland before U.S. entry into the war, again this has what to do with the War in the Pacific?
 

simon482

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Yes, the U.S.A provided Lend-Lease supplies to the U.K. from March 1941 on and there previously (September 1940) had been the so called "Destroyers for Bases Agreement." This, before U.S. entry into the War, entirely focused on the War in Europe and has what to do with the War in the Pacific? Yes the U.S. garrisoned Iceland and Greenland before U.S. entry into the war, again this has what to do with the War in the Pacific?
they were supplying russia, britian and china with supplies. japan was fighting china and wanted to cut off the supplies, they attacked the u.s. what i am trying to get across here is that the u.s was not some innocent bystander that got attacked for no reason.

i am not attacking the u.s i think it is the second best country in the world.
 

Aardvark154

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they were supplying russia, britian and china with supplies. japan was fighting china and wanted to cut off the supplies, they attacked the u.s. what i am trying to get across here is that the u.s was not some innocent bystander that got attacked for no reason.

i am not attacking the u.s i think it is the second best country in the world.
With the exception of the U.K. and by extension Canada and Australia no. The Flying Tigers (the American Volunteer Group) which was created in April 1941 (the Rape of Nanking was in 1937) were entirely paid by the Chinese Government.

Now if you want to say that U.S. public favored China and largely favoured the U.K. Canada etc. . . I'd agree.
 

simon482

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With the exception of the U.K. and by extension Canada and Australia no. The Flying Tigers (the American Volunteer Group) which was created in April 1941 (the Rape of Nanking was in 1937) were entirely paid by the Chinese Government.

Now if you want to say that U.S. public favored China and largely favoured the U.K. Canada etc. . . I'd agree.
they were not innocent bystanders who were attacked for no reason, that is what i am saying.
 

simon482

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You and the Imperial Japanese Army :rolleyes: The Americans made us do it, after all we should be allowed to rip up China and Vietnam.
i don't agree with them attacking you for your involvement up to that point. it was minor and not all that much. japan was trying to win and part of winning is killing off the suppliers, which is what they did. the u.s is not the world police, mind your own business and work on your own country. i like the u.s so don't take what i am saying as trashing you, the attack on pearl harbour was heinous and way over the top for what had provoked it.
 

Rockslinger

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I'm thinking that Canada never occupied another country. Yes, we fought wars in other countries but we never actually conquered and occupied land.
 

WoodPeckr

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^^^ Native Americans may dispute that!.....:eyebrows:
 
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