Gosh dude you are gullible. Tell me, do you think a blood and urine exam on an immigrant prospect will tell authorities about this back condition? Please, and I think immigrants are smart enough to keep their back conditions silent because they know if they talk before landing here they will be rejected.andymandy said:
Why Does Everybody Gets Sick When They Come To Canada?
- Thread starter Music_Box
- Start date
Hallelujah!! Finally someone else has stated the obvious. Our food just isn't that fresh, tasty, or ultimately nutritious even when compared with that of the supposedly 'developing countries' where our immigrants come from. The food here is not as tasty as the fare in many of the european countries where food is prepared with fresh, locally sourced ingredients. Thier meats aren't impregnated with antibiotics, nor are they fed grains that the animals to which the animals are not optimally adapted....much of their meat is grass-fed from Argentina.spankingman said:
Another consideration about southern Ontario specifically is that we just happen to be in the path of prevailing winds that carry alot of the pollution generated in the US midwest and our own industry in southern Ontario. I lived for a time in the Sault and let me tell you, I just felt more energetic I think simply because the air up there was just so much cleaner than in the Toronto area.
Just look at the pallor of many of the people walking the streets of Toronto. They just don't look all that robustly healthy to me...I saw men in Greece in their sixties who looked to be in better health than some 30 years olds here.
Yaa, i have experienced this abnormal phenomena of my mum's body sodium was over in less than two months stay in GTA, she never had that kind of problem back home, she was admitted for 8~9 days at our local hospital where she was charged $2,000 a night bed in a semi ward and initially my credit card was frozen and i had to fight a battle for over 6-months for her health insurance company to pay her bills, a terrible nightmare for me and my family for inviting her to come over here and spend summer with us!
Yeah ... that's no doubt the first question they ask immigrants when they arrive: "Tell me Mr. X, do you ever experience back pain?"Music_Box said:
Talk about naivety! With each post you manage to prove that you've got something out of whack, and I'm not referring to your back. You've yet to produce one example of factual evidence to support your claims, and your wacko ideas have been logically refuted by just about every contributor to this thread, and yet you won't give it up. Either you really are one dense piece of work, or you just crave the attention ... Why else would you keep coming back for more? Frankly, it's becoming boring.
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Well, MusicBox is on my ignore list because he's an idiot, so I'm not a fan of his ideas. Nor am I racist or anti-immigrant. Although I doubt the problem is rampant, it does not seem unreasonable to me that some people would come to Canada, or any developed nation, in search of medical care. That may or may not involve immigration.
I'm sure studies have been done to show the scale of the "problem", which is probably quite minute. But its not irrational. Given that most immigrants move to a new country in search of a better life, I don't find it at all hard to believe that a higher standard of medical care is part of that better life. Its certainly not "everybody" though. And I doubt it is even a sizable minority who deliberately conceal existing medical problems.
I'm sure studies have been done to show the scale of the "problem", which is probably quite minute. But its not irrational. Given that most immigrants move to a new country in search of a better life, I don't find it at all hard to believe that a higher standard of medical care is part of that better life. Its certainly not "everybody" though. And I doubt it is even a sizable minority who deliberately conceal existing medical problems.
I have had personal experience. Had a relative visit from Europe who had a heart attack after being here for a few days. Health insurance covered everything except i paid for treatment up front myself and then claimed it from the insurance company in Europe. Total cost over $50,000. A year to get the money from the insurers. I was also given some insights into the hospital accounts department.
The department at a local hospital was very helpful. One administrator suggested i not pay because my relative would be looked after anyway.
They let me know that the hospital routinely provides care for "visitors" with all sorts of ailments, some pre-existing and with no insurance or visible means to pay. Regardless of the hospitals stated "pay up front" signs in the ER, they are served. They also explained that they are required to treat all folks regardless of wether they can or cannot pay. In many cases some people have relatives here but they claim poverty.
In a nutshell the hospital accounts folks say that there are millions of dollars in medical care being given out to "visitors" and it is at the taxpayers expense. Some of these incidents are legitimate while most are family members who are already sick, brought here by relatives from overseas, treated and then they return home. The hospital spends a great deal of time and resources trying to collect from them overseas and here locally but often fail. No one within the hospital dares to come out and say a word for fear of retribution. "Its the cost of doing business" i was told.
I am sure there are many immigrants who come here and find themselves ill for one reason or another before they get their health card. I say "welcome" to them. They eventually will be like all the rest of us and contribute greatly but there are many who come here just to use the medical system and leave without paying. They do so because they can.
One Thought......Who amongst us would do anything (Right or Wrong)to save the life of a beloved family member?
The department at a local hospital was very helpful. One administrator suggested i not pay because my relative would be looked after anyway.
They let me know that the hospital routinely provides care for "visitors" with all sorts of ailments, some pre-existing and with no insurance or visible means to pay. Regardless of the hospitals stated "pay up front" signs in the ER, they are served. They also explained that they are required to treat all folks regardless of wether they can or cannot pay. In many cases some people have relatives here but they claim poverty.
In a nutshell the hospital accounts folks say that there are millions of dollars in medical care being given out to "visitors" and it is at the taxpayers expense. Some of these incidents are legitimate while most are family members who are already sick, brought here by relatives from overseas, treated and then they return home. The hospital spends a great deal of time and resources trying to collect from them overseas and here locally but often fail. No one within the hospital dares to come out and say a word for fear of retribution. "Its the cost of doing business" i was told.
I am sure there are many immigrants who come here and find themselves ill for one reason or another before they get their health card. I say "welcome" to them. They eventually will be like all the rest of us and contribute greatly but there are many who come here just to use the medical system and leave without paying. They do so because they can.
One Thought......Who amongst us would do anything (Right or Wrong)to save the life of a beloved family member?
With all due respect, the one factual example you gave, you in fact paid up front, and were reimbursed by your relative's health insurance. The rest is completely anecdotal, as it would have to be, because no hospital would divulge any factual information due to confidentiality, which btw would be grounds for dismissal. I know, because I've worked in public sector management.onehunglow said:
But you make a good point about the potential for abuse of the system, and the exploiting of loop holes, by a relative minority of desperate individuals -- hardly everyone, as M-B claims. However, this happens in all complex bureaucratic systems, and is, as you say, the cost of doing business. And I'm willing to bet that native-born Canadians are as guilty of it as any visitor, if not more so. Case in point, my son, who is teaching in Korea, got sick while there and took advantage of their health care, free, or at least for a nominal premium. As well, there are examples of Canadians going to India for elective surgery, at a fraction of what it would cost them here. So you're right, it's all too human.
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snowleopard said:
Do you really believe that no government or public sector employee would ever divulge personal information? You can't possibly be that naive.
Like i said, after speaking to several accounts people and the Administrator of Accounts, i was advised when i said "freeing up the money would take time" that i should just not pay. My aunt would be treated, sent home and they would then try to collect. (At least she had insurance which many do not). In our conversations about payments i was told the outstanding amounts for the hospital were in the millions (no details, no specifics). There were about 15 people working the accounts with 3 just working on the type of unpaid service i have described. I spoke to them all an several visits to drop the 50K+.
It would only take about 60 souls like myself to run up 3 million in debt in a hospital that serves thousands.
People are less afraid of divulging personal information than they are of embarrassing vindictive upper level managers and government officials when their ineptitude is showcased to the tax paying public.
I know you described yourself as a former public servant and i do not include you in this last statement.
vsailor said:
true enough,
but
that was before trewdough introduced family reunification and the floodgates opened to unqualified people.
.
Agreed.spankingman said:
I lived in France for two years and when I left I weighed about 210 lbs. My weight has been around that for years. After one month back in Canada I ballooned to about 240!!!!!!!!!!! It has taken me over 5 years to get back to around 200.
It's painful to admit, but for once I agree with Lancs, the family reunification is widely abused, especially by east Indian community with bogus marriages. It's up to the politicians to change the law, if they have the guts. The East Indian community has lot of members of parliament [MP] that support them. The MPs don't, want to lose the East Indian votes.LancsLad said:
C
crystalpalace
My point exactly ... we're talking a relatively small minority of people, out of millions, some of whom no doubt are immigrants (but we have no factual evidence of how many), who may or may not have abused the system, depending on your point of view.onehunglow said:
I suspect the real reason public employees don't divulge confidential information may be that they sign a confidentiality agreement. Like I said, it is grounds for dismissal, so I'm not surprised that they were not specific. And so the evidence remains anecdotal, as I've yet to read one actual case study in this thread. Which doesn't mean it's without merit, just unsubstantiated and therefore unverifiable. If a reporter went to an editor asking to publish this story, it would be rejected based on that alone, never mind the political flack.
I think we can agree on most of this.
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100% agree. This whole "debate" seems to be more about truthiness than fact. It seems to some that we must be getting ripped off somehow, by foreigners and immigrants, no less, so people start describing it as if it's some huge systemic problem, rather than individual cases.CapitalGuy said:
I notice li'l Music Box still hasn't produced any proof or supporting arguments for his claim, just an emotional insistence that immigrants are somehow getting free healthcare which they do not deserve, and that it is causing untold (certainly not quantified by Music Box) damage to the economy.
LMAO! I love a good roar!!!!thewalker said:Write to my MP? I don't think massage parlors are gonna do anything about immigration.
