What, another useless response? You clearly are good at filling up a page -and say nothing. I thought you somehow believed this Danish bashing was only coming from radicals? And with no common resentment amongst Muslims towards the west? But now you change your story? Blaming Arab governments as the only source of resentment, but in the same breath say the moderates understand the radicals frustration. Oh Boy! Believe me, resentment has been around for years, is everywhere(moderates and radicals. And yes it runs over into governments and the elites) and that's what fuels this hate. This is elementary stuff.The Mugger said:
What would Jesus do?
- Thread starter *d*
- Start date
You can't even read you sad pathetic excuse of a human being. I won't even bother pointing out your deliberate attempt to mask my argument.*d* said:
Although I find it very interesting the lack of comment you have on those Arab cartoons and that alone reinforces my opinion of you and your pathetic apologist approach to this problem.
It is morons like you that hide the problem of simple contempt that the average Arab has for the West and all things non-Islamic.
I've been trying to tell you all along there's a resentment problem. Now you agree, but you think I'm trying to hide the problem? Lord help us. The name Nut-bar fits you well.The Mugger said:
And btw I did give my personal opinion of the cartoons -on my second post here. I suggested a little respect for Muslim religious beliefs. If you indeed read.
*d* said:
Sorry DonQ, I still find it difficult to blame religion for Europes wars. To attack your thesis, I go 1/2 a step further back.
Although for the common peoples, the Reformation was a major religious conflict, the leaders of the reformation were more motivated by power. As long as they were Catholic, the Pope had ultimate say over their actions, through support or through excommunication. By becoming Protestant, they were simply choosing to be their own devine authority. Henry started the Church of England (with himself as the head - of course) over the fact that the pope wouldn't let him get a divorce (I know, a simplification but it shows my point).
Yes, every army has had religious functionaries. How else do you convince any sane person to give his life for something that wouldn't otherwise alter their lives? (Your life will earn a greater reward) Religion was still used as propoganda through WWII but there is no way I'd accredit it as the cause.
Napolean and Hitler may have used Charlemaigne (or the Romans) as a ideal to inspire others but it was simply a quest for personal power. Although Marx didn't have a full grasp of human nature, I think he was bang on about religion.
Although for the common peoples, the Reformation was a major religious conflict, the leaders of the reformation were more motivated by power. As long as they were Catholic, the Pope had ultimate say over their actions, through support or through excommunication. By becoming Protestant, they were simply choosing to be their own devine authority. Henry started the Church of England (with himself as the head - of course) over the fact that the pope wouldn't let him get a divorce (I know, a simplification but it shows my point).
Yes, every army has had religious functionaries. How else do you convince any sane person to give his life for something that wouldn't otherwise alter their lives? (Your life will earn a greater reward) Religion was still used as propoganda through WWII but there is no way I'd accredit it as the cause.
Napolean and Hitler may have used Charlemaigne (or the Romans) as a ideal to inspire others but it was simply a quest for personal power. Although Marx didn't have a full grasp of human nature, I think he was bang on about religion.
DonQuixote said:
Alright, Christianity was the problem (for the sake of argument) and now Islam is the problem. Do you care to address the here and now, or is it more important to deal in the pedantic exercise of sorting out the blame for various historical wars that have long ago been resolved, (whilst your head is being ceremonially lopped off in the here and now)?
Hey, your thesis on europe was faulty but your rationale for creating it was fine with me. There are enough Islamic radicals though who still use outright religous propoganda so it's not hard to understand why people blame Islam as a whole or at least think it's a religous war.
Survival is the number one goal of any species. The prime motivator of unification is therefore the survival efficiencies gained through collectivism.DonQuixote said:
Not what I was talking about (reformation causing all war in Europe) but I'll bite.
In one word, necessity.
One family group came in conflict with a more powerful/numerous group. Their only means of keeping their position would be to ally with others. Some groups were logical choices for alliances against a common enemy. Some groups chose to submit to the will of another group. Some picked up and left, looking for somewhere else to live(a major factor in world migration patterns). Villages made of many families rose due to a dependence on resources in a specific location (fish, metals, oasis) or to protect what they had from others. The need to get along with these others made it important for a set of socially acceptable guidelines to handle actions within their community. Many groups would have expanded their story telling traditions to include a unifying mythos.
As groups grew, the need for resources increased which created a wider circle of influence, larger groups of people, and increasing scale of conflict with others. This necessitated greater cooperation with others and a larger set of rules to organize in a cyclical process.
Religion has provided an easy way for the leaders to codify laws (ie. do it or great harm will fall on you from the heavens - a lot simpler than do it or I'll have to kill you)
Religion was created as a way of dealing with the more complex social interactions; interactions based on the need for resources, not the reason society formed.
Maybe I should have stuck to 1 word.
In one word, necessity.
One family group came in conflict with a more powerful/numerous group. Their only means of keeping their position would be to ally with others. Some groups were logical choices for alliances against a common enemy. Some groups chose to submit to the will of another group. Some picked up and left, looking for somewhere else to live(a major factor in world migration patterns). Villages made of many families rose due to a dependence on resources in a specific location (fish, metals, oasis) or to protect what they had from others. The need to get along with these others made it important for a set of socially acceptable guidelines to handle actions within their community. Many groups would have expanded their story telling traditions to include a unifying mythos.
As groups grew, the need for resources increased which created a wider circle of influence, larger groups of people, and increasing scale of conflict with others. This necessitated greater cooperation with others and a larger set of rules to organize in a cyclical process.
Religion has provided an easy way for the leaders to codify laws (ie. do it or great harm will fall on you from the heavens - a lot simpler than do it or I'll have to kill you)
Religion was created as a way of dealing with the more complex social interactions; interactions based on the need for resources, not the reason society formed.
Maybe I should have stuck to 1 word.
Not at all. I was just pointing out that our answers were essentially the same (post #122). Yours was longer and more eloquent.basketcase said:
Food trumps spirituality any day of the week. You are the one that asked for the "prime" motivator.DonQuixote said:
No you said "sets the groundwork for the creation of a nation state,..."DonQuixote said:I asked for the prime motivator in the creation of a nation-state.
Go back and reread my post. Your shoot-from-the-hip answers
are shallow at best, but more worthless than relevant.
Is your purpose in posting to drive up your numbers, or what!
I responded appropriately to the word "groundwork". I will refrain from insulting your posts even though you just insulted mine, because I don't think you are mean spirited, just a little cranky at times.
TTYL.
