I'm not an immigrant. I was born here.The Bandit said:Unless you are native Indian, you are also an immigrant... what a useless thread.
What is your view on immigrants?
- Thread starter stinkynuts
- Start date
Are you kidding?? Even with all the 'qualifications' in the world, immigrants are far more likely to end up in a dead end job that requires only a high school education than the average native born canadian. You get ahead here based primarily on your social network, and not your qualifications. Hate to burst your bubble about Canada being a colour-blind place where everyone has an equal shot....errrr, yeah ... whatever.toughb said:
What I don't like about immigration is that it has fractured our society too much along racial/cultural lines. I've been here so long that I don't even betray a hint of an accent when I speak english, and yet people are always asking 'where I'm from', asking about how's things are done in my 'homeland', etc. etc. In a way, it's like we're all just a bunch of communities co-habiting within a single state instead of being truly 'ein volk', one people living together as true countrymen and women (my preference).
This makes living in Canada a little strange, to be honest. And I'm not racist: if I were, I would want less to do with other peoples rather than more...eventually I'm sure we'll all just be unhyphenated fellow canucks.
P.E.Trudeau, visited Toronto in 1960's remarked" too many white people living here" The rest is history!
I myself growing up in TO. being of 3rd generation southern Euro Canadian knows about anglo prejudice!
That's okay I hung with white bread munga cake buddies we had a good time laughing at each other's jokes. They would visit my parents house every chance they could to eat food that was foreign to them. Could not join their exclusive country and yacht clubs. Because my family last name ended in a vowel. Lol
I myself growing up in TO. being of 3rd generation southern Euro Canadian knows about anglo prejudice!
That's okay I hung with white bread munga cake buddies we had a good time laughing at each other's jokes. They would visit my parents house every chance they could to eat food that was foreign to them. Could not join their exclusive country and yacht clubs. Because my family last name ended in a vowel. Lol
Hmmm....
...interesting. The litmus test as to whether or not you are educated and wise, versus silly, clumsy and brainwashed is whether or not your opinion aligns with the person posing the question.
That sounds like something a person who wasn't terribly well educated or wise would say...
SandStorM said:
...interesting. The litmus test as to whether or not you are educated and wise, versus silly, clumsy and brainwashed is whether or not your opinion aligns with the person posing the question.
That sounds like something a person who wasn't terribly well educated or wise would say...
Thank you for that. They crossed the land bridge that used to exist over the Behring Straits between Alaska and Russia. Its funny that we go out of our way to identify that Natives have special rights since they were the first ones in Canada, yet we deny ourselves those same rights with regards to recent immigrants who came here after us. When Germany claims that Turks born in Germany aren't "real Germans" since their parents aren't native Germans, we call them racist NAZIs. Yet we don't say a peep about (the occasional radical) Native leader who says "white" Canadians aren't really Canadians. Good fucking grief!!stang said:
I find it somewhat ironic by times that visible minorities throw around the word "racist" and only apply it to people of white European descent.
I've tried to find it on youtube, but there's a bit in Russell Peters video "Outsourced" where he talks about "Asians" being the worst racists ever. He illustrates the point that certain dialects in Chinese "ostracize" and bring ridicule to those who speak it. Or being from a certain village.
Also, I travel a lot to Jamaica. I've seen and heard with my own eyes the racism expressed from the Indian minority towards the "black" Jamaicans. There national slogan "out of many, one people" is not true.
I've tried to find it on youtube, but there's a bit in Russell Peters video "Outsourced" where he talks about "Asians" being the worst racists ever. He illustrates the point that certain dialects in Chinese "ostracize" and bring ridicule to those who speak it. Or being from a certain village.
Also, I travel a lot to Jamaica. I've seen and heard with my own eyes the racism expressed from the Indian minority towards the "black" Jamaicans. There national slogan "out of many, one people" is not true.
Immigrants are an economic and cultural necessity for the growth of Canada. Illegal ones are not.
Nor are government policies that allow people to enter and gain citizenship merely because they don't like the crap that's going on in their own country and want to find a parking lot to wait it out. Nor should there be policies that erode the Canadian cultural traditions to point of politically correct nonsense once those people are let in the country. Immigrants should want to come to Canada to become Canadian.
I really am getting tired of people who have lived in the country for 20+ years and still cannot speak conversational English or French. This includes many from European countries too. For example there have been some British transplants who have lived in Quebec for over 100 years and never learned Quebecois. WTF? Good for them they got booted out. We need to do the same for the rest of the ingrate immigrants.
Nor are government policies that allow people to enter and gain citizenship merely because they don't like the crap that's going on in their own country and want to find a parking lot to wait it out. Nor should there be policies that erode the Canadian cultural traditions to point of politically correct nonsense once those people are let in the country. Immigrants should want to come to Canada to become Canadian.
I really am getting tired of people who have lived in the country for 20+ years and still cannot speak conversational English or French. This includes many from European countries too. For example there have been some British transplants who have lived in Quebec for over 100 years and never learned Quebecois. WTF? Good for them they got booted out. We need to do the same for the rest of the ingrate immigrants.
This country and North America was built by immigration. The world today competes for the brightest minds and also competes for those willing to labor to build societies. We are purposely a mulicultural society and that is a strength of our nation.
I am as WASP as they come but so what! Its a changing world and people are more fluid in movements for opportunity and jobs. Immigrants won't be the death knell of our society but the strength.
Racism does exist in this country and while we are loathe to admit it, it is there and we see it and experience it every day. Racism is not unique to Canada, the U.S. or even Jamaica but it is a world wide problem that I fear will never go away no matter how enlightened we think we are.
Our country prospers and grows due to the work of all people and we will only grow further with added population. This will only come from opening up our borders to new immigrants.
We live in the here and now so lets get used to it.
I am as WASP as they come but so what! Its a changing world and people are more fluid in movements for opportunity and jobs. Immigrants won't be the death knell of our society but the strength.
Racism does exist in this country and while we are loathe to admit it, it is there and we see it and experience it every day. Racism is not unique to Canada, the U.S. or even Jamaica but it is a world wide problem that I fear will never go away no matter how enlightened we think we are.
Our country prospers and grows due to the work of all people and we will only grow further with added population. This will only come from opening up our borders to new immigrants.
We live in the here and now so lets get used to it.
I welcome all immigrants warmly, they enrich our culture and make our lives better.
While I believe the above is true -- and voted accordingly -- this is not how I would have framed my views on immigration.
The above suggests that we should welcome (or not) immigration based on what we get out of it. I personally believe that freedom of mobility should be a fundamental human right and that my own comfort shouldn't be the criteria to judge whether someone else should have access to the same opportunities.
While I believe the above is true -- and voted accordingly -- this is not how I would have framed my views on immigration.
The above suggests that we should welcome (or not) immigration based on what we get out of it. I personally believe that freedom of mobility should be a fundamental human right and that my own comfort shouldn't be the criteria to judge whether someone else should have access to the same opportunities.
Most immigrants I have met are hard working good people.
They have enriched our country with their cultural diversity and hard work
I also think we perhaps have opened the door two widely and a slow down of immigration should be put in place, for the following reasons
1. Employment- new immigrants should bring skills in demand, no sense making the competition for a limited # jobs more intense during a recession or at any time
2. Communication- new immigrants should make a commitment to learn how to read, write and speak English (or French if you insist) . Australia gives them 6 months to pass a test. The burden on our economy / government to communicate in 100+ languages is significant.
3. Bring your culture, however respect traditional Canadian cultures and more importantly respect the laws. eg Beating your wife is not acceptable here
4. Education- I hear more talk about requests to have education funding provided for specific religious schooling. Again this is a burden on our education system. It also leads to isolation
5. Security. Too many nut jobs are walking into Canada with motives which are inconsistent with traditional values (ie terrorism, or fighting the home battle from here)
Bottom line.
If someone wants to come to Canada to work hard, be productive,try and adapt, better their families lives and add value, please come in
If some wants to come to Canada to cause trouble is unwilling to at least try and adapt or because of our generous social programs, please look elsewhere
The process for deportation of such individuals must be swift
They have enriched our country with their cultural diversity and hard work
I also think we perhaps have opened the door two widely and a slow down of immigration should be put in place, for the following reasons
1. Employment- new immigrants should bring skills in demand, no sense making the competition for a limited # jobs more intense during a recession or at any time
2. Communication- new immigrants should make a commitment to learn how to read, write and speak English (or French if you insist) . Australia gives them 6 months to pass a test. The burden on our economy / government to communicate in 100+ languages is significant.
3. Bring your culture, however respect traditional Canadian cultures and more importantly respect the laws. eg Beating your wife is not acceptable here
4. Education- I hear more talk about requests to have education funding provided for specific religious schooling. Again this is a burden on our education system. It also leads to isolation
5. Security. Too many nut jobs are walking into Canada with motives which are inconsistent with traditional values (ie terrorism, or fighting the home battle from here)
Bottom line.
If someone wants to come to Canada to work hard, be productive,try and adapt, better their families lives and add value, please come in
If some wants to come to Canada to cause trouble is unwilling to at least try and adapt or because of our generous social programs, please look elsewhere
The process for deportation of such individuals must be swift
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_re_af/the_slave_next_door
As with anything in life, there is the good the bad and the ugly.
Most immigrants enrich the culture, but we do have to be careful that they understand that there are certain ways of doing things that they have to change. Treating women like chattel, slavery, and female "circumcision" are just some of the things that we treat as wrong or illegal.
As with anything in life, there is the good the bad and the ugly.
Most immigrants enrich the culture, but we do have to be careful that they understand that there are certain ways of doing things that they have to change. Treating women like chattel, slavery, and female "circumcision" are just some of the things that we treat as wrong or illegal.
Most Immigrants are actually quite hard working, and just want to do the best for their families. In many cases, they've had good jobs in their respective countries, but have had an exceptionally rosy picture of Canada painted to them by the Citizenship and Immigration department of the Federal Government. Then they come to Ontario, and viola, there are few jobs here!
The problem lies with our Federal Government. The process for selection is clearly outdated, and is not current with the skills needed for the Canadian Workforce. The bureaucrats work with outdated stats, and bring in people with skills that we already have. Ex: There are a lot of unemployed Chinese and Indian Engineers out there.
In many cases, immigrants and refugees have to go on social assistance, because we simply don't have a lot of well paying jobs, except maybe in Alberta. Of course you can go work at Quizno's or Walmart for Minimum wage, but when would you conduct a search for a better job?
In fact, Immigrants are much harder working than some Canadians. Some "real" Canadians stay on Social Assistance for generations. For some groups like the Chinese, there is a real stigma with receiving Social Assistance, so they are rarely on it.
Sometimes I think its the animals running the zoo at Citizenship and Immigration. The countries they bring in people from in really skewed. For example, Chinese are very hard working, so they have brought in many people and that's good. But they have also brought in many from Jamaica, where there is a culture of violence, and people bring those tendencies here to bring up the crime rate. Also, a lot of Somali's are brought in as refugees, the culture there makes them especially lazy in Canada. In essence we aren't getting value because our government has a crap system in place.
The problem lies with our Federal Government. The process for selection is clearly outdated, and is not current with the skills needed for the Canadian Workforce. The bureaucrats work with outdated stats, and bring in people with skills that we already have. Ex: There are a lot of unemployed Chinese and Indian Engineers out there.
In many cases, immigrants and refugees have to go on social assistance, because we simply don't have a lot of well paying jobs, except maybe in Alberta. Of course you can go work at Quizno's or Walmart for Minimum wage, but when would you conduct a search for a better job?
In fact, Immigrants are much harder working than some Canadians. Some "real" Canadians stay on Social Assistance for generations. For some groups like the Chinese, there is a real stigma with receiving Social Assistance, so they are rarely on it.
Sometimes I think its the animals running the zoo at Citizenship and Immigration. The countries they bring in people from in really skewed. For example, Chinese are very hard working, so they have brought in many people and that's good. But they have also brought in many from Jamaica, where there is a culture of violence, and people bring those tendencies here to bring up the crime rate. Also, a lot of Somali's are brought in as refugees, the culture there makes them especially lazy in Canada. In essence we aren't getting value because our government has a crap system in place.
Hockey_MLnut said:
there is no war on christmas why is the only the right wing screams war on christmas ever december?
There probably isn't much I can add to what has already been posted.
However, Stinkynuts the situation is more complex than it is frequently made out to be. To summerize:
It is important to differentiate between peoples attitudes towards illegal and legal immigration, in fact some of the most vociferous critics of illegal immigration are legal immigrants and their relatives. It is also important to note that Canada has vastly less problem with illegal immigration than does the U.S.
Racism in my experience plays a small role in peoples attitudes towards immigration.
Of far more importance is the value that immigrants are bringing to the country. Have they immigrated due to a desire to better themselves in a culture such as ours or solely to leave their home country? What skills do they bring, obviously there is greater need for skilled workers in careers with a shortage of workers than there is for unskilled labourers.
However, Stinkynuts the situation is more complex than it is frequently made out to be. To summerize:
It is important to differentiate between peoples attitudes towards illegal and legal immigration, in fact some of the most vociferous critics of illegal immigration are legal immigrants and their relatives. It is also important to note that Canada has vastly less problem with illegal immigration than does the U.S.
Racism in my experience plays a small role in peoples attitudes towards immigration.
Of far more importance is the value that immigrants are bringing to the country. Have they immigrated due to a desire to better themselves in a culture such as ours or solely to leave their home country? What skills do they bring, obviously there is greater need for skilled workers in careers with a shortage of workers than there is for unskilled labourers.
The anti-Christmas campaign is far more noticeable in the U.S. than in Canada, and it in fact is true.canada-man said:
