What happens to hobbying in GTA in next 5 years?

[twang.uxorial]

Just curious. What will the experience of a hobbyist in the GTA be in the next 5 years?

5 years ago I feel like was the tail end of what was (for me) a relative peak in hobbying, considering quality of providers and rates. 250 and 300 per hour got you very attractive providers with great service.

Today, the economic outlook is bleak not just in the GTA, but nationally. Fewer and fewer agencies have incall locations downtown. Per hour rates continue to climb, reflecting the increase in costs of living.

Assuming these larger economic trends continue, what does that mean for the escort industry in the GTA? Feels like $400 is the going rate for quality right now, will it be $500 or more soon?

I know this touches sensitive topics like economics and politics but i hope people will engage in productive exchange so we can all learn from one another.

 

[Jubee]

Everyone will be fucked.

 

[Patron]

I follow many ISG threads and of course U.S. cities, and there is one theme that is constant. There are fewer 18-22 year olds entering the industry, and that has significant ripple effects. Someone isn’t doing their job at High School career day (Note to the literal-minded, I am kidding).

With Canada’s strong agency system, it is the least affected by this trend, but it isn’t immune. What I mean is that the attack in many countries on anything organized puts a large barrier to entry for the youngest ladies, which decreases supply and increases prices.

When the average age of suppliers goes up, the supply goes down as many gradually leave the industry. Those that don’t leave the industry often have a book of regulars they keep for years and don’t look for that many new customers by offering availability and low rates to new customers.

So I think the issues Johns complain about relate directly to lack of supply, specifically the lack of new entrants into the industry. That doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of happy Johns, but there is a strong trend toward repeating with a group of regular sex workers in many parts of the world. Those aren’t the guys complaining on message boards, but they might someday when those group of regular sex workers start showing them pictures of their new grandchildren at the start of sessions.

Given the strong demand for young sex workers, and the decreased supply of them, the prices of that group has gone way up. None of this is helped by the high rent and transportation costs. Those get passed on to customers. And older sex workers generally think they should get a “raise” every year.

As to where have the kids gone, many used to think they left for the Sugar Baby system, but the Sugar Daddy posters say that is not the case. Certainly some of them are exclusively OnlyFans models.

But the overall supply of all types of sex workers among the 18-22 year olds has declined compared to past generations. They live at home longer, which really cramps the fuck out of the Hooker Lifestyle. They get support from parents to a larger extent than ever before, and the non sex-work jobs simply pay better than ever before. So they don’t need as much cash. Look at California’s new minimum wage. Want fries with that is more socially acceptable than want a blowjob with that. And this is the leading edge of the Puriteen Generation coming into adulthood. They have been saying “Gross” to every mention of sex online throughout their lives so far. You really think a large percentage are going to go straight to sex work when they become adults? It also didn’t help that they were forced to go to their rooms and fear the unknown during Covid. There is a Holy Shit moment where any new sex worker first knocks on a hotel door to meet her first few customers. That is one hell of an unknown, and they just aren’t familiar with the unknown.

The cure for high prices is high prices, and vice-versa. So we might not see tremendous future price increases worldwide. But expect a permanent reduction of supply levels in future years. So if you find someone you really like anywhere, keep her number and repeat a lot. In my opinion, that will be the future. Relatively high and higher prices, and sex workers and Johns having a limited orbit of customers and suppliers, with a lot of repeating. I could of course be wrong, but that is my trend prediction. And the never ending government laws and restrictions worldwide will add to this trend, as evidenced by Western Europe, certainly France but prices went up and supply went down in Spain as a result of proposed restrictive laws that never passed.

 

[shack]

There are cycles.

But two things that don't change is that guys are horny and there are girls willing to sell themselves.

 

[twang.uxorial]

I follow many ISG threads and of course U.S. cities, and there is one theme that is constant. There are fewer 18-22 year olds entering the industry, and that has significant ripple effects.

More specific to the GTA, i've seen several amazing service providers in this age range leave the industry because even when they were charging $350 an hour, they couldn't make things work.

For the kind of work they have to do, I would love for SPs make enough money to not have to feel financially secure. But because of the cost of living, that has led to a situation where a lot of independents are setting their rates close to/at $600. I have no issue with that, but i will note that that is roughly 6x the hourly rate family doctors make in the GTA. If you look at income statistics for Canadians it will become obvious that even for the top 10% this would be a considerable expense for a semi-regular indulgence.

 

[Patron]

More specific to the GTA, i've seen several amazing service providers in this age range leave the industry because even when they were charging $350 an hour, they couldn't make things work.

For the kind of work they have to do, I would love for SPs make enough money to not have to feel financially secure. But because of the cost of living, that has led to a situation where a lot of independents are setting their rates close to/at $600. I have no issue with that, but i will note that that is roughly 6x the hourly rate family doctors make in the GTA. If you look at income statistics for Canadians it will become obvious that even for the top 10% this would be a considerable expense for a semi-regular indulgence.

That begs the question of what did they do upon leaving, and why didn’t they continue to do it part-time, particularly on an outcall basis?

At really high rates, there is a natural limitation on the number of bookings.

Many independents have the most success doing this activity part-time as one hell of a supplemental income.

The number one complaint you read independent escorts make is the cost of an incall that is underutilized compared to the cost.

That is a big advantage of agencies.

I do agree that we see many independents with high rates leave the business after a short period of work with some of them complaining that the economics didn’t work. But I wouldn’t discount the possibility that they do outcall, or even incall at their own apartments, with a few trusted regulars.

Canada’s laws are certainly an impediment to having fully utilized affordable incalls. If you look worldwide, many incall places are huge with nonstop sex occuring in multiple rooms at the same time. That simply isn’t possible in Canada and certainly not in the U.S. So that adds to the price, and increases the number of independent escorts who find that the math doesn’t work. That won‘t get better in the next five years.

 

[SchlongConery]

@Patron nailed it. Excellent analysis.

I might add that, although I might catch some flack over it, I'm actually happy that there are less young 18-21 yo's getting into the sex biz.

Don't get me wrong, I have huge respect and appreciation for service providers. Sex work can be a worthwhile, honourable profession that pays well and serves a need an important need in society. And I love the young women!

But it certainly changes anyone who is in the sex biz. For better or worse. Too often I think they might leave the biz worse off.

So I'm happy that more and more young women are somehow finding a way to make their way in life without even having to know about, least of all consider sex work.

But yet I feel the OnlyFans experience might be worse for young women than doing some actual in-person fucking and sucking. I think it might be giving them an unjustly inflated sense of self worth. They get outrageously flattered simply because they have nice tits or ass. They get paid simply for being pretty and an unobtainable fantasy fuck for a horny lonely guy. Often who prtrays themselves as some rich successful dude.

Then comes the fake nails for $200, the $10,000 ass implants. Thousands of dollars of tattoos. They get too full of themselves and truly begin to beleive they are worth $10k tax free a month.. about the same as a Medical Doctor makes! So their future job prospects are never going to match their sense of worth and they will be dissatisfied.

Same with the men they think they are worthy of. So they aspire to the perfect composite guy their female idols on Instagram describe,. Nobody can meet their expectations.

Then they hit the wall. The 18--24 appeal is not sustainable.

Fake ass and tits needing replacement in a few years. Tats smudging and not so bright. Their civilian market value and saleability tanks as the high value guys have already found a mate and those left might not find them appealing overall.

Blah blah blah... so I'm happy if more young women find fulfulling , sustainable lives outside the world of sex work.

And those that do find a good place in the world of sex have good agencies to helpo them with the business side of things. I can imagine being an indy is wayyy more work to run their professional business than we think.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I appreciate that most of the posts above are dealing with the economics of the industry…all good.

My concern is one of health issues, and it could be personal/anecdotal. After almost 30 years of hobbying and enjoying BBBJCIM’s I have dodged the STD bullets. But it feels like there are more STD’s going around.

My response has been to go with safer options and less frequency, eg. MP’s instead of SP’s. But many MP’s are offering higher levels of service and it is so hard to resist the offers of DATY when a beautiful young ass is in my face.

So that’s my 2 cents….watch out for the impact of STD’s on the industry…recognizing that we’re still horny.

 

[Jubee]

OF and "influencing" has done the damage and will keep doing so along with social apps.

I mean I haven't been to a stripclub in awhile, are they still going strong like they were 15 years ago?

 

[Goodoer]

Recently, I'm at the point where I debate with myself whether I'd rather have three legit RMT massages versus one encounter with a SP... Injuries, etc. are no fun, but It is fun to be tempted out of hibernation by a women.

 

[y2kmark]

What do you think Dougie's spa was about, huh? That and robo babes like the Japanese seem to be so fond of?...

 

[DesRicardo]

Why shouldn't costs go up? It's not unreasonable.

 

[Patron]

@Patron nailed it. Excellent analysis.

I might add that, although I might catch some flack over it, I'm actually happy that there are less young 18-21 yo's getting into the sex biz.

Don't get me wrong, I have huge respect and appreciation for service providers. Sex work can be a worthwhile, honourable profession that pays well and serves a need an important need in society. And I love the young women!

But it certainly changes anyone who is in the sex biz. For better or worse. Too often I think they might leave the biz worse off.

So I'm happy that more and more young women are somehow finding a way to make their way in life without even having to know about, least of all consider sex work.

But yet I feel the OnlyFans experience might be worse for young women than doing some actual in-person fucking and sucking. I think it might be giving them an unjustly inflated sense of self worth. They get outrageously flattered simply because they have nice tits or ass. They get paid simply for being pretty and an unobtainable fantasy fuck for a horny lonely guy. Often who prtrays themselves as some rich successful dude.

Then comes the fake nails for $200, the $10,000 ass implants. Thousands of dollars of tattoos. They get too full of themselves and truly begin to beleive they are worth $10k tax free a month.. about the same as a Medical Doctor makes! So their future job prospects are never going to match their sense of worth and they will be dissatisfied.

Same with the men they think they are worthy of. So they aspire to the perfect composite guy their female idols on Instagram describe,. Nobody can meet their expectations.

Then they hit the wall. The 18--24 appeal is not sustainable.

Fake ass and tits needing replacement in a few years. Tats smudging and not so bright. Their civilian market value and saleability tanks as the high value guys have already found a mate and those left might not find them appealing overall.

Blah blah blah... so I'm happy if more young women find fulfulling , sustainable lives outside the world of sex work.

And those that do find a good place in the world of sex have good agencies to helpo them with the business side of things. I can imagine being an indy is wayyy more work to run their professional business than we think.

I agree with everything you said, and the current group of ladies I regularly see are much older on average than the 18-21 year olds and in general more enjoyable to be with.

I guess looking forward 5-10 years, the question is whether the current group of young women, even the OF ladies whose subscriptions start to decline, ever enter full service sex work. That is the great unknown. Are they just continuing the trend of young people doing everything later in life than past generations, or has there been a paradigm shift where supply is permanently reduced?

From just a practical standpoint, since women always enter this industry out of economic necessity, whether it is raising a child and/or paying $3,000 NYC monthly rental rates along with that $2,000 monthly student debt repayment from Columbia on a $9,000 monthly wage from the first “career” job, is the decline in teen pregnancy rates throughout the world, especially in First World countries. We have all been with plenty of young, single moms whose primary sex work motivation was providing for the baby. Many were treated poorly by society as a result of an unwed pregnancy and decided if all the old bitches are going to call me a slut, I will not only be one hell of a slut, I will also not give them the satisfaction of seeing my baby or babies live in poverty. The current generation of youngest women, at least in the U.S., aren‘t having babies in their teens, and aren’t treated like shit if they do.

I guess we will see if the next five to ten years if the current group of 18-21 years old ever enter the industry in large numbers, and if their younger sisters do. I have a feeling we are seeing something if a paradigm shift, so personally I think we are looking at a permanent reduction in supply levels. Of course recessions and changes in government economic support policies make predictions even more difficult to make.

 

[superman12]

In the GTA specifically I think we will see ever increasing prices in the escort industry. Based on how the industry has been trending the past 5-10 years I also think the general quality and attractiveness of escorts will go down. Attractive women just have so many more options available to them today then they did even 5-10 years ago to make a good amount of coin without ever having to suck a dick. Thanks to social media and the myriad of apps available women have so many more options to make money then they did before if they are good looking. Not that escorts won't exist in 5 years time but I just don't see the quality being there on an overall general scale. Of course there will be those perfect unicorns that have quality of service and attractiveness but they will be far and few between. You already see that in today's industry. There are probably only a handful of escorts on this board that get consistently good reviews from gents in terms of service and attractiveness. Most of the other girls are hit and miss. I also think that the indy escort market will shrink in the next 5 years especially with all the screening protocols. Those that are indy will probably only see their set of clients they already have.

 

[Jenesis]

I think the fact that many more GenZ stay home longer then say GenXers did, that would also play in less 18-21 year olds entering the market.

Households are becoming multigenerational and not just with traditional cultures that we are use to. It is no longer feasible for the younger generation and parents are just keeping them home. I was out of the house as a teen. Like a lot in my generation. You could get a job and pay for cheap small apartment and make do. You can’t do that now in this economy and parents are keeping their kids home longer because of it. There is just a higher percentage of adult children still living at home with their parents. Unless the economy and cost of living changes, I don’t see this changing for the industry anytime soon. Why work as an escort when you can get a part time job, so some OFs and mom and dad pay the mortgage

 

[Sonic Temple]

There are cycles.

But two things that don't change is that guys are horny and there are girls willing to sell themselves.

Man I wanna so bad sell myself to the right high powered female CEO of course. Ahh who am I kidding to any female who wants to sugar me. Too the original OP - in 5 years mate -

 

[Patron]

I think the fact that many more GenZ stay home longer then say GenXers did, that would also play in less 18-21 year olds entering the market.

Households are becoming multigenerational and not just with traditional cultures that we are use to. It is no longer feasible for the younger generation and parents are just keeping them home. I was out of the house as a teen. Like a lot in my generation. You could get a job and pay for cheap small apartment and make do. You can’t do that now in this economy and parents are keeping their kids home longer because of it. There is just a higher percentage of adult children still living at home with their parents. Unless the economy and cost of living changes, I don’t see this changing for the industry anytime soon. Why work as an escort when you can get a part time job, so some OFs and mom and dad pay the mortgage

I wonder as that trend continues if this ends up on the John Bucket List.

You get directed to an incall address in a residential neighborhood of McMansions.

The 18-25 year old from the website pictures is out on the porch swing, and she leads you up to her bedroom on the second floor after you awkwardly wave to her parents.

She tells you, don’t worry, they are just glad I am finally chipping into the big monthly mortgage payment.

On the way out, mom has baked brownies and gives you a couple along with a Country Time canned lemonade for the drive back.

 

[farquhar]

If you peruse SP Twitter accounts, a lot of girls are complaining that business is slow. I recall reading one US Escort yesterday who stated: "At one point, I could go on tour and have six calls lined up/day and have ten other guys with text threads in my phone wanting to see me. Now, if I go on tour I get two or three calls/day at most."

I'm sure it's all relative.

When it comes to OnlyFans, that is not a guaranteed source of income either. The vast majority of accounts make very little money.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1773121953894744203

"Focus on yourself/your bag."

"But you can make way more money and fuck less...or not even have to fuck at all. You just have to found a way to upgrade in this industry."

If women can figure out how to make money in the sex industry, without necessarily having sex with strangers, or having as little sex with strangers as possible, should I fault them for that? Or should I respect the hustle?

All I know is, I started paying for play in 2006. Things are nowhere near the same as they where 18 years ago. Either I have to learn to adjust; or I have to quit. Maybe I'll quit.

 

[Liquidity]

It’s not just costs. I would say costs factor somewhat into it, but it’s not the entire story.

There is something cultural going on with GenZ, particularly in Canada and the US. They are much more awkward, socially anxious, less personable, more sheltered, and overall less sexual I would say. And you see it with a lot of these GenZ providers. They don’t like their clients, don’t know how to have good sex, need to be directed, are not very sensual, and cannot carry a conversation if their lives depended on it.

That is one aspect. The other aspect is the proliferation of simp culture. The hottest girls on social now have one or two whales basically paying all of their bills even if they aren’t hitting it. This was simply not a thing back in 2017. The reflation in assets and breakout of cryptocurrency has made a lot of people very wealthy. Some of them with more money than sense.