What Constitutes Cheating?

[blackrock13]

A lot of you seem to be under the misapprehension that you are actually having a debate with Fuji. Not so. A debate assumes the exchange of ideas, a willingness to listen to (or read) and consider others' views, use additional information provided by other debaters to reassess your own views and at least a theoretical acceptance of the possibility that you are wrong in some particular or other. None of these conditions applies to Fuji. He is clearly not willing ever to admit any error. Nor is he apparently ever willing to change his position on anything. Once he shares his views, he considers himself to be incontestably correct. Everything is black and white. You either accept Fuji's views, many of which are simply matters of opinion which cannot be proved or disproved empirically, or you are dismissed as some combination of moral or intellectual failure.

rld already referred to Fuji as arrogant and a narcisist. That's possible, but I doubt it. I'm an arrogant narcisist and I don't get that vibe off him. I think it's more likely that Fuji is simply very insecure in his real life. One of his coping strategies is to come on to an anonymous board and metaphorically throw his weight around explaining the moral and ethical failures of everyone who is not him. I initially challenged Fuji to cite a single example of any statement he made that he has subsequently admitted was wrong. My challenge was not accepted. I see no need to further feed Fuji's need for acclamation or dominance by pretending we're actually having a debate.

He has admitted to minor errors once or twice, but has always tried to hedge his bets by couching it in amongst such a large doses of diatribe and the usual second question in the hopes of deflecting the duck and dive, that it gets missed. that's why I put him on ignore a while back and it's so good for the blood pressure. It's amazing he hasn't realized how many active members don't actually responds to his blather. I'm guessing he's not as bright as he thinks he is.

 

[simon482]

for a man cheating is putting body parts in other peoples bodies. for a woman cheating is more complex as they need the mental stimulation as well and i have been told by many women that a kiss means more than sex ever could.

so if a guy fucks he is cheating and if a woman kisses she is cheating. that is what i think. if i ever found out my woman got close enough to a guy that she wanted a passionate kiss from him and took that kiss i would would leave her cuz i obviously did something wrong to make her not want me anymore and it would be only fair to give her the freedom to go be happy somewhere else if i really cared about her.

 

[Don Draper]

I have no idea why you're so proud of yourself for cheating fuji or why you're so proud to be a hypocrite. These are not things to be proud of. You're not the first person to cheat, or the last, so you cheating is pretty much the smallest, saddest, most mundane thing.

I do understand some of your points about sexual competition being unfair. I mean that describes about 80% of the people on this board and why they hobby. They can't get women through normal competitive means and so they have to resort to ways to tip the scales, like paying women to have sex with them. And maybe back in the olden days, before modern attitudes about relationships and decency were full formed, and it was all about survivial of the species, it was in the best interests of men everywhere to copulate with as many people as possible, regardless of attachment. But we've evolved now, and understand things like 'respect' and 'trust' and 'honesty' and realize that in some situations there's more than just sex and the selfish fulfillment of base needs (Odd to be saying on an escort message board, I know)

You equated somehow men who don't cheat with those who mutilate female vaginas, which I unfortunately do not have the creative vocabulary to properly put into words how execrable and ghoulish that sentiment is. At the end of the day you're locked into the simple fact that what you perceive as being 'strong' and 'virile' is instead, the efforts of a weak, spineless little man, and you can't face it, so you chalk your weakness up to some genetic pre-coding and use it to justify the behavior. The day is not long in coming when your wife will find out, and leave your ass, I'm sure

A lot of you seem to be under the misapprehension that you are actually having a debate with Fuji. Not so. A debate assumes the exchange of ideas, a willingness to listen to (or read) and consider others' views, use additional information provided by other debaters to reassess your own views and at least a theoretical acceptance of the possibility that you are wrong in some particular or other. None of these conditions applies to Fuji. He is clearly not willing ever to admit any error. Nor is he apparently ever willing to change his position on anything. Once he shares his views, he considers himself to be incontestably correct. Everything is black and white. You either accept Fuji's views, many of which are simply matters of opinion which cannot be proved or disproved empirically, or you are dismissed as some combination of moral or intellectual failure.

rld already referred to Fuji as arrogant and a narcisist. That's possible, but I doubt it. I'm an arrogant narcisist and I don't get that vibe off him. I think it's more likely that Fuji is simply very insecure in his real life. One of his coping strategies is to come on to an anonymous board and metaphorically throw his weight around explaining the moral and ethical failures of everyone who is not him. I initially challenged Fuji to cite a single example of any statement he made that he has subsequently admitted was wrong. My challenge was not accepted. I see no need to further feed Fuji's need for acclamation or dominance by pretending we're actually having a debate.

Initially, I would take some genuine interest in what the members would write in whatever forum was posted. It is quickly evident which posters are interested in camaraderie, insight and an exchange of interesting outlooks. It varies in all manner from art, food, travel, sports and of course, women and sex. Fuji has no credible insight into anything from the postings I have read. The only such aspect he has presented is blowhard rhetoric that I can only classify as 'Bovine Scatology'.

Not unlike a new local bar you have decide to frequent, you are willing to have open conversations with all the regulars to see who you might develop a rapport with. It is easy and quickly discovered who the interesting adults are and who the children are in the guise of adults who are emotionally stunted and have no significant contributions to make to any sort of dialogue. These individuals are vexing on the mind and heart as nothing constructive is ever gained from a conversation with them, no matter how sincere the effort might be on your behalf. Eventually, they tend to sit alone at the corner of the bar seeing as no one is interested in their company; tokenship or otherwise.

This is the equivalent of putting someone on 'ignore' which is what I have done with Fuji as well. I walk in, see who I want to chat with and join that conversation and avoid the obnoxious, uninteresting geek at the end of the bar who will sit there alone for hours on end and whom no one will notice that he has left when he's gone.

 

[d_jedi]

If you're naked with another woman, and she's pleasuring you sexually (or vice versa), it's cheating.
So.. seeing a SP? Cheating. MPA? Cheating. Stripper for a lapdance... grey area.

Although it's never cheating if your SO knows of it and is OK with it..

 

[Thunderballs]

I'd say cheating is putting your dick in any one of a lady's orifices without your partner's consent.

 

[kissykisskiss]

See?No matter how you say it,it all comes down to "To act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage is cheating.".And then there are all the words attached,lying,selfishness,unfaithfulness,betrayal,sneaking,deception,bamboozled,hoodwinked,swindle,impostor..........have any more?

 

[kissykisskiss]

I'd say cheating is putting your dick in any one of a lady's orifices without your partner's consent.

Or,putting your dick in any of a ladies orifices without their consent,LOL.

 

[fuji]

It's funny how many of you appear to be so threatened by my view on this that you move immediately to personal attack.

 

[kissykisskiss]

Fuji says:Can you clarify in what way cheating is immoral?
Do you know the meaning,definition of immoral>moral?Please look them up or read on,then maybe rethink your position.From my point of view,your lack of simply knowing the meanings of the many words you throw around is child like.
Immoral-violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.Mores-.the conventions that embody the fundamental values of a group."The group being 10 oranges,you Fuji being one apple."
Moral-Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong. Saying cheating isn't immoral is saying "Apple Fuji-you are lacking a conscience or sense of right and wrong by cheating on your wife and embracing,expressing that it is A Okay.If you had admit it is essentially wrong,that you would never want her to find out because it would hurt her deeply,it would make you human(an orange

 

[kissykisskiss]

It's funny how many of you appear to be so threatened by my view on this that you move immediately to personal attack.

Human nature.It's because we are Orangesand although we make mistakes,do things we may be ashamed of,we can admit it.Ultimately,I like to know that the group I'm in(in this case-Terbites),share with,talk to...are essentially good people who care about not only themselves but others also..

 

[rld]

Initially, I would take some genuine interest in what the members would write in whatever forum was posted. It is quickly evident which posters are interested in camaraderie, insight and an exchange of interesting outlooks. It varies in all manner from art, food, travel, sports and of course, women and sex. Fuji has no credible insight into anything from the postings I have read. The only such aspect he has presented is blowhard rhetoric that I can only classify as 'Bovine Scatology'.

Not unlike a new local bar you have decide to frequent, you are willing to have open conversations with all the regulars to see who you might develop a rapport with. It is easy and quickly discovered who the interesting adults are and who the children are in the guise of adults who are emotionally stunted and have no significant contributions to make to any sort of dialogue. These individuals are vexing on the mind and heart as nothing constructive is ever gained from a conversation with them, no matter how sincere the effort might be on your behalf. Eventually, they tend to sit alone at the corner of the bar seeing as no one is interested in their company; tokenship or otherwise.

This is the equivalent of putting someone on 'ignore' which is what I have done with Fuji as well. I walk in, see who I want to chat with and join that conversation and avoid the obnoxious, uninteresting geek at the end of the bar who will sit there alone for hours on end and whom no one will notice that he has left when he's gone.

I agree completely. I have a strong interest in evolutionary biology and thought it might be interesting to discuss.

However, as usual, once he realized he was in trouble he decided to suggest I was saying things I never said. A completely dishonest tactic.

I have returned him to ignore and apologize for giving him another opportunity to babble on. Won't happen again.

 

[blackrock13]

If you're naked with another woman, and she's pleasuring you sexually (or vice versa), it's cheating.
So.. seeing a SP? Cheating. MPA? Cheating. Stripper for a lapdance... grey area.

Although it's never cheating if your SO knows of it and is OK with it..

I'd say cheating is putting your dick in any one of a lady's orifices without your partner's consent.

So simple, so few words and so refreshing. Nicely put.

 

[fuji]

...

Thanks for your post. Unlike others who appears to be threatened by my view, and have immediately resorted to personal attack, you've actually taken the time to post an honest response. It's refreshing.

Fuji says:Can you clarify in what way cheating is immoral?
Do you know the meaning,definition of immoral>moral?Please look them up or read on,then maybe rethink your position.

It's a philosophical question. To me a code of morality is a code of expected conduct that is designed to make interactions between individuals fair. At issue here is that sexual relationships are inherently unfair, and no code of conduct can make them fair. In fact, attempts to do so are sure to wind up being far more unfair than simply letting things run their course.

For example, measures designed to prevent cheating tend to be primitive and draconian--this is the source of the argument for things like female genital mutilation in the Middle East. Even here, under our old rules of divorce pretty much everyone came to the conclusion that it was unfair to punish adultery, so we revised our rules to favour "no fault" divorce. Now the only consequence of adultrery is a faster divorce--perhaps that's not even punishment but rather viewed as benefit by some.

Immoral-violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.

By observation infidelity is commonplace in our society. I linked a study up thread that indicates that at least 40% and probably much more than 50% of people engage in it. Moreover it's unlikely it was EVER anything less than commonplace and normal behavior. If you look at the amount of bandwidth that adultery gets in literature and art it's always been with us--many of the oldest stories we have, like Odyssey and Helen of Troy, are stories of adultery.

We know it's widely practiced today, and that it's been a lively topic of discussion since we were able to write down stories, so it's likely always been that way. It's plainly a generally accepted code of conduct. So commonplace that in fact it must be the case that many of the people here arguing against it actually engage in it.

I have a fundamental problem with labelling common, everyday, normal behavior immoral. That led me to look at the issue personally, and try and understand why it is that it's labelled immoral but at the same time practically everybody does it. The conclusion I reached is that we're all fundamentally hypocritical on this point--we all want to call it immoral when someone else does it, but none of us want to stop.

In the end I realized that this hypocrisy is inherent to sexual relationships, and therefore moral codes fail to deal with the issue properly. They do not bring any fairness to the relationship, in fact, they simply cause the unfairness to spill over from the sexual relationship itself into other areas of life. Sometimes in very brutal ways.

 

[fuji]

However, as usual, once he realized he was in trouble he decided to suggest I was saying things I never said. A completely dishonest tactic.

In fact you are one of the most dishonest debaters around here. You did in fact pretend that I relied on one specific theory and then posted references contradicting that one specific theory. That was dishonest of you. When I called you on it you switched to personal attack, demonstrating your weak mind.

 

[fuji]

...

Congratulations on switching to a more readable font. I can see you're still pissed off that I mocked you for your poor taste on the watch thread.

 

[red]

A lot of you seem to be under the misapprehension that you are actually having a debate with Fuji. Not so. A debate assumes the exchange of ideas, a willingness to listen to (or read) and consider others' views, use additional information provided by other debaters to reassess your own views and at least a theoretical acceptance of the possibility that you are wrong in some particular or other. None of these conditions applies to Fuji. He is clearly not willing ever to admit any error. Nor is he apparently ever willing to change his position on anything. Once he shares his views, he considers himself to be incontestably correct. Everything is black and white. You either accept Fuji's views, many of which are simply matters of opinion which cannot be proved or disproved empirically, or you are dismissed as some combination of moral or intellectual failure.

thats right

 

[kissykisskiss]

Fuji-"By observation infidelity is commonplace in our society."
So is theft,just because something is commonplace doesn't make it acceptable or moral.Without morality,laws,rules, human conscience, our world would be in chaos.Sociopaths would run rampant and be "commonplace".
Shit.........in a way,our world IS in chaos.Hmm.

 

[fuji]

Fuji-"By observation infidelity is commonplace in our society."
So is theft,just because something is commonplace doesn't make it acceptable or moral.

In terms of the number of people who engage in it, it looks like a majority of us engage in infidelity, but only a small minority engage in theft. I certainly don't feel any compulsion to go out and steal or kill people, and I don't think that a majority of us do either, and so although I agree those things happen in our society, I think we can generally agree that it's a minority of deviants who engage in that behavior. Maybe for various reasons (socio-economic, etc.) but certainly it's not behavior that a majority of people engage in.

Since it does look like a majority of us engage in infidelity asserting that infidelity is immoral is tantamount to asserting that being human is immoral. I'm not prepared to say that we as a species are fundamentally immoral, that the majority of us are "sociopaths", I don't think that serves any useful or practical purpose.

 

[Jade Glow]

WE WERE ON A BREAK ! ! !

The OP ask what constitutes cheating to us, not to our partners.

To me, if you do something you don't want your partner to know about with someone else, it's cheating.

But different people have different views of what is cheating , so whoever has the stricter rules on cheating will always be the one who decides what is or isn't cheating, it only takes one person to end a relationship.

*Mervyn* You are so right! everyone has a different view of what cheating is to them! Thanks for pointing out that my guestion is geared to "you" "us", not our partners!!