Was I wrong to stop an appointment for no solid reason?

[Herodotus]

tboy, I'm the one who has always claimed and espoused the three sides to every story angle, but you've just proven once again that you have no idea about what makes a woman tick. Grabbing at someone, following after a girl, blocking her way, showing that you have lots of money are all signs of a pathetic loser. That behaviour will never put a girl at ease, escort or otherwise.

She said that she "told him I was feeling uncomfortable with going further and that we should end things here." That is all the explanation he should need. This guy, like many others on TERB and elsewhere, had no dignity or decorum and doesn't know how to interact with the opposite sex.

You obviously know nothing about women, so there isn't a thing that I can do to clarify it for you... you probably believe that a woman somehow owes you and that because she takes money for sex, she's a whore who has no say in the matter, because hey, business is business.

And Fab, I agree that Angel_Eyes is still a dilettante in the game and that she has handled this endeavour poorly in myriad ways, but as a woman, you know damn well that no means no, horny guy or not. And that a guy following after you, blocking your path and flashing cash is not going to put you any more at ease. Just the opposite in fact. I believe that to her, "no good reason" meant that he wasn't Quasimodo or a chainsaw-wielding serial killer, but that she got a bad feeling that cold feet can end up being justified.

Yes, she was nervous and may have chickened out, but her ad was both very clear (asking for easy-going, patient gentlemen and offerring to meet beforehand at a public place to "see if we're comfortable with each other") and gave all the signs of a beginner. A seasoned veteran in the hobby - or just a plain gentleman - would know that and act accordingly. And a player would have closed the deal. YMMV, right? The concept extends beyond the (paid for) bedroom - and keep in mind, she didn't take any money. The guy went into this knowing that the initial meeting was a mutual pre-screening for a new girl, so he can't even really complain about wasted time.

Angel_Eyes, you have to decide if you are truly ready to do this. You may want to do some serious soul-searching about how you go about doing it. You seem like a nice enough person, but this is a tough business. And as you can see, TERB is a tough place.

 

[a 1 player]

An SP has done the same thing to me in the past. Felt uncomfortable (or got cold feet) after the initial meeting with her. No hard feelings on my part. I would rather there be a mutual feeling of comfort on both sides than having a crappy session and feeling like I wasted my money. And no, she did not charge for the initial meeting, which was classy on her part.

 

[tboy]

Hero? Why the fuck can't you keep to the topic at hand and chill with the insults? You may THINK you know all there is to know about women but your schoolyard insults just prove what a child you really are. So grow the fuck up!

So YOU'RE the ONE who says there are three sides to every story? Oh, so you hold the patent on that idea? Shit call the newspapers, everyone who has ever used that term OWES this knob for using HIS idea....wtf is wrong with you?

As for what her AD says, where the hell is her ad and what are we supposed to be, mind readers? There is no link, no hint of an ad in her post so blow THAT out your ass.

As for her taking any money, where does it say that in her OP? Again, you must be Kreskin because you obviously know more than the rest of us....maybe YOU were the guy and are just trying to save face?

The more I think about it, maybe you ARE the guy! Grabbing at her? Where the FUCK does it say that in her op? He took her arm, I often take a woman's arm for a myriad of reasons: helping her put on her coat, move her aside so she doesn't get whacked when I open the door for them, to move them aside while I scoot by in a tight hallway, when they're stepping over a snowbank, etc. Just because a guy TOUCHES a woman doesn't make it a threat.

As for women taking money for sex: well, you can use whatever term floats your boat but I use the term the ladies prefer which is escort. As for certain liberities that are understood when you pay a woman for sex, well, there IS. OH GASP HOW CAN I SAY THAT....well, for one, as a customer, yes, there are certain expectations one has and rightly so. Like: no complaints about the sox on the floor, no buying dinner first, hopefully she has more experience and is better than the average woman, and when she ADVERTISES FULL SERVICE you should expect that at SOME point and if as a customer you DON"T receive the services advertised? You DESERVE more of an explanation than "I don't feel like it". Hell, if we wanted that we'd get married!!

 

[Herodotus]

I see that you have an amazing capacity for selective reading, so I'll keep it brief.

First of all, I did not claim to invent the saying "three sides to every story", all I was explaining was that I strongly believe in it and don't need you of all people to explain it to me.

Here's the ad that took me 15 seconds to find you are too lazy to look up: http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/ers/597925645.html. That was the only way he could have contacted her that I know of, so he must have read it and should have got the gist.

Here's her quote explaining his actions:

...as I began to get up to leave, he took hold of one of my overcoat sleeves briefly before I asked him to please let me go and pulled away. As I was walking away though, he got up and followed me and then overtook me and blocked my path.

Again, in your world, I'm sure that is normal behaviour - taking hold of a woman's sleeve as she tries to leave and not letting go until she asks you not to? Following her and blocking her way to continue your rant? Actually, this guys sounds more like you than me. Perhaps that's why you are so wound up? Pissed off and horny? LOL!

As for the money, I will bet you that she didn't take any, but we'll have to wait and see, won't we. The ad should explain the rest of your idiotic rant. If not, I'll break it down for you line-by-line later...

Listen, I understand you feel the need to be contrarian just for the sake of it. I got over that when I was 21, but it takes some people a little longer I suppose - if at all. But unless you actually read what was written and take the time to figure out what the context is, you are just ranting for the sake of reading your own nonsense. Yay tboy.

Carry on...

 

[Admirer]

Angel_Eyes is just having fun with the people on this board. She/he has been posting these types of questions since the beginning of January. I doubt that she/he is even considering becoming an SP.

 

[Noir]

Angel_Eyes is just having fun with the people on this board. She/he has been posting these types of questions since the beginning of January. I doubt that she/he is even considering becoming an SP.

There's no real way of knowing whether this is true or not. I think that if I were A.E and seriously had this question/concern, I would want answers - not speculations based on a short posting history. Heck, I had TONS of questions and concerns when I first started, but I had contact with ladies and wonderful TERBites with whom I voiced my questions and concerns.

Anyway, I think that AE had every right to stop the appointment from going any further than it did. I have had a similar experience with a gentleman that insisted on continuing the appointment, when I told him that I was uncomfortable with the way that he was acting, and pacing around. I went into specifics as to why it wasn't going to work, and asked him to leave. It took me a good 15 minutes to get him to leave, and that was with security escorting him out. He begged, offered me 2 times my hourly rate, grabbed me and HELL I was freaked! (Thinking back to it - the situation wasn't as bad as I thought that it was....)

Don't feel bad about it. At least the appointment didn't proceed further, and turn out with both of you feeling miserable. Relax, and take a breather. See if this is truly for you - remember, that all clients will not be as accommodating as you would like them to be.

 

[tboy]

"(Thinking back to it - the situation wasn't as bad as I thought that it was....)"

There it is, in a nutshell.....but hey, Hero wants to be a hero to all women everywhere...

And btw: No, I DON'T have the time nor the inclination to search for the possible ad for a possible sp.

 

[Noir]

"(Thinking back to it - the situation wasn't as bad as I thought that it was....)"

There it is, in a nutshell.....but hey, Hero wants to be a hero to all women everywhere...

While that is true, this is:

a) 2 months after the fact. IMHO Nothing seems as bad, after it takes place, and time has elapsed. (ie. high school "trauma", mid-life crisis...)
b) I am a bit cynical and joke about these things with friends...I take things too lightly at times - YES that is a bad trait.
c) With an established safety net , so I had a way out. If I were alone, I doubt that I would take this as lightly as I did/do.
d) It could have ended differently, which is why I say, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was.
e) This client grabbed my arm, blocked my path after I asked him to leave. This behavior is not acceptable as it is bound to make the lady less comfortable and is in vain. (Flashing more money is not about to make me relax....Grabbing me when I ask to leave is not making me feel comfortable with you.)

 

[Herodotus]

What is it with you and selective reading and comprehension? So now you're quoting someone who has experience in the game to "prove" your point? Noir clearly stated that at the time she was freaked and that with perspective, time and experience in the business, she knows how she would handle it.

Of course you forgot to quote "I think that AE had every right to stop the appointment from going any further than it did" and "Don't feel bad about it. At least the appointment didn't proceed further, and turn out with both of you feeling miserable." But then that wouldn't help your "point."

And you fail to acknowledge that this is Angel_Eye's first kick at the can. Not all of the ladies in (and out of) the business are fembots tboy...

Edit: Reading Noir's post just reaffirms everything I have written. Should I start a poll on here for the ladies to show you that this is almost universal among the "fairer sex" or will you just take it as fact?

 

[jazzpig]

She can chicken out if she wants to that's her prerogative, but she asked if it was wrong for her to bail for NO GOOD REASON. As far as I can tell she had some sort of different expectations. Since I am only hearing one side of the story I believe she created the uncomfortable situation because her mind set was already on bailing.

She'll find that the next guy will be very much like the first one, just want to have sex and go on. I think Angel Eyes was looking for someone she can be attracted to. If that's the case she should be advertising on a dating site.

All I am saying is that she is playing a dangerous game and if it's true what she describes (the guy grabbing her and blocking her way) she is already half way there.

And once again public solicitation.

Re; me: when I got into this business I knew full well what I gotta do to get that money. Some people just need it spelled out to them. There is no if's or or's that's what this biz is all about SEX FOR MONEY. I wasn't a pro in an instant and sometimes learned the hard way.

Perhaps better let Angel Eyes do the same. There are lots of players in this game, she should use caution cause she is an easy target for a bad boy.

I think Fabulous has hit it on the head on every account here. I think you're misinterpreting her forcefulness for insensitivity. That's how I felt reading her posts until I reread A.E. original post a number of times.

My take is that A.E. was not ready for this at all, and she panicked and did not bail out as gracefully as need be. I mean it sounds like she basically told him she wasn't comfortable and wanted to get the fuck out of there as fast as she could, which I think escalated the situation ( not to dangerous, but from awkward to more awkward).

Look, we're all human beings here, both SP and client. The dynamics of personal interaction in this situation, I would think, is unique and more stressful than most others. My eperience with SPs is very, very limited. I know when I come face to face in the first few moments, as well as leading up to it, I am nervous as hell, as excited as hell, as awkward as hell, as curious as hell, I am in total sensory hyper mode. I'm good at covering it but that IS what I'm going through. If this was her first experience, it must of been double for her. How can you expect such a situation to be played out rationally and perfectly normal in the context of everyday life.

A.E. admitted there was nothing wrong with him. She felt uncomfortable with the way he stared at her. She covered herself up with her arms. Does that not tell you what state of mind she was in? I'll bet the overwhelming majority of clients have that look especially if it's a first time encounter. She told him she wasn't comfortable but gave him no explanation. Yeah, I know that no means no, but it sounds like she got up after a couple of minutes, and just started leaving without putting real closure to the situation. I'll bet it was less time than that cuz when it's that uncomfortable, a minute seems like an hour. Again, I know no means no, but think about the dynamics here. If it were me, I think my ego would have taken a beating, and at the least I would want to know what was wrong with me or what did I do wrong. I mean, is that so unreasonable?
He tugged at her coat sleeve. He didn't grab at her coat sleave or her arm. In her own words, he tugged at her sleave. Is that really aggressive? I get the feeling she was just rushing out and he was kind of stunned and made some sort of attempt to get an answer from her.

I know that he blocked the doorway but along with the fact that she said there was nothing wrong with him, she said he always remained calm. She didn't give me any indication that he was threatening to her. He even asked if she would reconsider and meet him at some other time.

The interaction between SP and client goes beyond any financial and personal interaction that we play out in the "civilian" world and I think it's naive at the very least to expect these unique experiences to stay within regular boundries to the letter of the law.

Do I think A.E. should have followed her instincts and left...Yes, always.
Do I think she handled the situation poorly (my own forensics)....Yes, absolutely.
Do I think she was prepared for this kind of experience...No.

Fabulous completely understood what happened here and cut to the chase.
A.E knew she fucked up, and that's why she came here looking for redemption.

 

[Questor]

Angel_Eyes, I think you were right to cancel, as long as no money exchanged hands. If you felt uncomfortable sitting and talking, how would you have felt with him boinking you and stick his tongue down your throat? In all likelihood, it wouldn't have been a good experience for the client either. So you did him a favour, even if he didn't know it at the time. The only thing you might have added was that it was your first time, and that it wasn't his fault. I don't know, maybe you did explain that to him.

Someone also mentioned you should try a reputable incall establishment. Going indy is a tough way to break into the biz. I too would go with an agency. Learn the ropes that way. Unless, that is, you are still having doubts. Maybe it isn't the right line of work for you.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Did you see her fee, $350 an hour. This guy offers her more $$ on top. IDK but it might be a BS posting. For that $$$ he would have many ladies to pick from. I find this all hard to believe.

But if it is true, A/E did the right thing. Every escort is not a "pro" and every client might not want a "pro".

One of my best dates had tennis shoes on when she came up to my room We had a blast too.

 

[Herodotus]

Jazz, I agree with much of what you posted, however you fail to take into account that most girls are easily intimidated by men, particularly in awkward and intimate situations. And even calm demeanours are still disconcerting when someone is uncomfortable. The sheer size and girth/muscularity of the male is enough to make many women feel nervous if they are in a situation that could be dangerous like escorting.

Just think about when you are walking through a dangerous part of a city. You are on high alert and even normal behaviour can seem like a threat. Now multiply that exponentially and that is how some girls feel when it comes to men they don't know and are about to / considering getting intimate with.

I've heard this from LOTS of girls. Even though I am relatively tall and fairly muscular, I have to work harder than a smaller guy to put girls at ease and I'm cognizant of that. And this is done through humour, body language and by being completely unthreatening. Luckily I figured this out early enough in life so that I could have some fun!

 

[tboy]

Jazz, I agree with much of what you posted, however you fail to take into account that most girls are easily intimidated by men, particularly in awkward and intimate situations. And even calm demeanours are still disconcerting when someone is uncomfortable. The sheer size and girth/muscularity of the male is enough to make many women feel nervous if they are in a situation that could be dangerous like escorting.

Just think about when you are walking through a dangerous part of a city. You are on high alert and even normal behaviour can seem like a threat. Now multiply that exponentially and that is how some girls feel when it comes to men they don't know and are about to / considering getting intimate with.

I've heard this from LOTS of girls. Even though I am relatively tall and fairly muscular, I have to work harder than a smaller guy to put girls at ease and I'm cognizant of that. And this is done through humour, body language and by being completely unthreatening. Luckily I figured this out early enough in life so that I could have some fun!

Need I say more?

Prove my point? That's your problem right there: I am not trying to prove anything, the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine...you don't like? Shove it up your.....ahem....muscular....ass......

 

[LordLoki]

Angel Eyes,


Good Luck and if you need any further advice, feel free to PM me.

Alexa,

Your big ripe full brain is showing again.....

LL

 

[Herodotus]

Need I say more?

Prove my point? That's your problem right there: I am not trying to prove anything, the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine...you don't like? Shove it up your.....ahem....muscular....ass......

no homo. I hope.

 

[jazzpig]

JazzI've heard this from LOTS of girls. Even though I am relatively tall and fairly muscular, I have to work harder than a smaller guy to put girls at ease and I'm cognizant of that. And this is done through humour, body language and by being completely unthreatening. Luckily I figured this out early enough in life so that I could have some fun!

Holy shit, that's the story of my life!

I understand that part of it and as I was writing that post I was fully aware of how I could be perceived if I didn't adjust my behaviour as noted.
Still, as an SP, she has to have a way above average tolerance to these sort of things or else you'ld never be doing business. Whether it be because a guy is big, mean looking, slimy, unnattractive, shifty, there's always a reason.

Even when she wrote her post, she never mentioned that she felt threatened. She continued to assert that she didn't know what it was, she just felt uncomfortable. Now, on that basis alone, she needs to abort the situation, I am in agreement. My post was more about Fabulous's perspective and how her comments were perceived. I still agree with her.

I think Alexa Taylor's post was excellent and really, she's really saying what Fabulous said, but in a very gentle manner. I think Fabulous takes a more "sink or swim" approach which is understandable in this kind of business.

 

[rama putri]

I didn't read all the other posts (I hardly do), but to the OP, your instincts in this case were obviously right on. Once you made the decision to leave, no one should attempt to confine you or bar your exit. This guy obviously was potentially a bad date and his behavior, one day, I predict would escalate the next time a lady says no. I'm glad you got out safely.

 

[Angel_Eyes]

Umm Wow! I think I'm kinda regretting having posted this now and I apologise if I started anything.

To be clear about a few things:

1) This was my first time in meeting a customer and I thought meeting him in public would be a little easier than seeing him elsewhere.
2) No money was exchanged. My thinking was that we would meet and if things progressed further, then we could go back to my place (not my actual place) and settle things there. So all he bought me was a coffee and we sat down and chatted.
3) As I said, I thought he seemed to be an ok guy overall. Not unattractive, but he was quite tall and well built, which kinda intimidated me abit. I was quite nervous to be sure, but I didn't think that when I was interacting with him that I showed it as much as I felt it.
4) He did know this was my first time as it was stated in my ad and I did say so again while scheduling with him. Also during our meeting after I said that I was uneasy, he did bring it up again that he knew I was new to this and tried to reassure me that things would be alright with him.
5) He wasn't ever completely out of control or something, just that he was very persistent and intense and tried to prolong things when I guess maybe by doing so, it was having the opposite effect than what he was looking for.

Also I do understand that if you become an SP that you're going to meet men of all types, lookwise and personality wise etc. but I don't think that was the problem. I don't know if this is true for other people, but for me when I first meet someone, I'm usually neutral towards them initially and while interacting with them opinions change from there. But there are also times when I meet someone, I'm immediately drawn to them and there are yet other times when I meet someone for one reason or another I feel abit negative towards them initially. With this gentleman, I guess that was how it was. When I first saw him, I felt abit uneasy, but I thought it might just be my nerves and so I sat down to chat with him to see if things would change, but in fact it got a little worse.

I could be wrong, but again I thought I held my nervousness in pretty well and spoke pretty calmly and in control during our conversation. And when he asked me what was wrong, I said something along the lines that even though he seemed to be alright, I was just abit uneasy around him and preferred not to continue. He then asked me what the problem was with him and how it could be resolved so that things could go forward and I really didn't have an answer. Things continued on this path for a few minutes over and over and I guess I felt there wasn't anything more to say that wasn't already said and so I apologised again and got up to leave. And when he held onto my overcoat sleeve, I don't think I felt threatened as much as I was surprised by it. And when he caught up to me and blocked my path and put a hand on my shoulder, again I didn't feel too threatened, but maybe concerned at the time.

I know that I'm young and inexperienced and everything, but I don't believe I was ever naive enough to think that things were going to be like Pretty Woman or something along those lines. I know that being an SP means meeting all kinds of gentlemen, of whom some might be less than ideal and again at least from what I saw I don't think this was the issue in this case. I guess all I'm asking is if one doesn't feel comfortable for a reason that you can't properly explain to someone, is it wrong to stop an appointment?

Also, I suppose this is why I kinda wanted to avoid Terb initially and just go about things quietly with a few customers that were more random. If it was something that I thought I could be comfortable with and be good at, great and if not that's fine too and remain anonymous and just be another girl that passed through this business briefly. I guess Terb to me is both good and bad in that people here are great with advice and information, yet at the same time can be pretty harsh as well at times. It almost feels kind of like someone giving you a great final meal before putting a bullet in your head.

Anyways, I apologise if I caused any problems. I guess I just wanted to know if what I did was wrong or not and get a perspective other than my own on things. I do appreciate everyone's input (especially from the SPs point of view) and know that even though I thought I did ok, that I probably messed up at least abit in that meeting, so I'll see if there's something I can't do a little differently with the next few guys and see how it goes.

 

[tboy]

Well, the thing about asking for advice is: you don't always get what you want to hear. That is one aspect of asking for advice online, be it good and bad.

2) Your comments about meeting someone for the first time. You're referring to guys you've met in a non-business sense. Remember: you're not dating these guys, you're sleeping with them for money. A life rewarding connection isn't necessary or even desired.

3) As I suspected, his actions seemed to be more of a desire to keep the date going as hoped as opposed to threatening you in any way. Specially since you were in a coffeeshop!!!

4) At $350.00 per hour you had better shape up and quickly. That is at the upper end of the scale in Toronto and you can have truly gorgeous and amazing women for a lot less money.

5) As for getting a few customers at random and avoiding terb. If you stop dates because you're uncomfortable for an unexplained reason, you won't get many customers. It really sounds to me like you're a typical woman selecting your men with the same criteria as you would someone you want to date. I tell you, don't advertise yourself as an sp, because you're not.

6) Your "uncomfortable" feeling. Sorry, Hero is going to jump all over me again for this. But hell, I wasn't there and don't know you from sam, but sleeping with a guy for money IS an uncomfortable situation until you get a few dates under your belt. I really don't think it is fair to the CUSTOMER to have such high expectations of them. We're guys that pay for sex. Get over it. You're NOT going to meet Hugh Grant, Brad Pitt, Mr Right, or some GQ Model...that only happens in Hollywood......

Sorry, this is going to sound harsh but: I really think this is a case of a (as yet unknown to me) attractive woman who thinks she is worth more than the other extremely attractive ladies out there and thinks, hey, I'm a COURTESAN....sorry, you're not. A courtesan who demands a higher than average rate is a woman who will blow a customer's mind and have no hangups about connecting with the customer. Sure, getting along with someone makes the encounter so much better, but you're not going to marry him, date him, take him home to mom. You're going to fuck him for money and at $350.00 per hour, IMO, you'd better be prepared to fuck him like he's never been done before. (sorry, that's harsh, but read the reviews: one can have an amazing time, with some truly wonderful women for about 2/3 of her rate).

Sorry angel, as others have indicated, this business obviously isn't for you.