Was I wrong to stop an appointment for no solid reason?

[tboy]

Fuji: it took some reading to discover it, but it does sound like she was in a coffeeshop when this went down. Which again leads me to believe it wasn't as dramatic as others seem to think.

And this was the point I was trying to make, you said it better in a nutshell "some guys get a little weird when they are close to having sex and then denied it"......Doesn't mean they are going to rape her, assault her, or accost her, just got all revved up and then POOF....(sounds like marriage to me actually LOL)

 

[Herodotus]

tboy, you kill me.

You want people to stick with the facts / topic at hand and yet you are the absolute king of giving your own totally biased opinion on things outside the facts of the postings, stretching the truth and completely reading into things by drawing conclusions based on your own, *ahem*, unique perspective and "logic".

Bottom line is, she was a nervous first-timer who got a bad vibe (for her own reasons), tried to end the pre-session meeting and the guy put his hands on her. No matter what you may think, "No" means "NO". And to go ahead and chase after someone and again put one's hands on that person is dead wrong, whatever the intention is. Once may be semi-understandable to some I suppose, a second time completely crosses the line. YOU DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON A WOMAN unless she gives permission.

 

[tboy]

tboy, you kill me.

...... Once may be semi-understandable to some I suppose, a second time completely crosses the line. YOU DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON A WOMAN unless she gives permission.

And you just proved how dumb you really are: he touched her coat, once, in a public place....DON'T BLOW IT OUT OF PROPORTION!!! It's not like he lifted her skirt and grabbed her ass, or pinched her tit or something, GET REAL COWBOY!!! as AE said: he put his hand on my coat sleeve.. END OF STORY

So, you do not put your hands on a woman unless she gives you permission?

What are you? An idiot? So, if you see a woman about to get whacked upside the head by a door, you stop and ask? You see one about to fall over a snow bank, you stop and ask? You never take a woman's arm to "usher" her into an elevator or through a door you're holding?

The problem is: when you state absolutes, you have to be absolutely sure.

Now you've drawn me into what I bitched about before: commenting on the comments instead of the topic at hand,.

(nota)Hero? You have a lot to learn buddy...seriously.

 

[Herodotus]

And you just proved how dumb you really are: he touched her coat, once, in a public place....DON'T BLOW IT OUT OF PROPORTION!!! It's not like he lifted her skirt and grabbed her ass, or pinched her tit or something, GET REAL COWBOY!!! as AE said: he put his hand on my coat sleeve.. END OF STORY

So, you do not put your hands on a woman unless she gives you permission?

What are you? An idiot? So, if you see a woman about to get whacked upside the head by a door, you stop and ask? You see one about to fall over a snow bank, you stop and ask? You never take a woman's arm to "usher" her into an elevator or through a door you're holding?

The problem is: when you state absolutes, you have to be absolutely sure.

Now you've drawn me into what I bitched about before: commenting on the comments instead of the topic at hand,.

(nota)Hero? You have a lot to learn buddy...seriously.

Jesus, do you ever stretch the truth and make arguments that serve your own purposes!

He did not save her from being whacked in the head by a door, rescue her from an oncoming car or shove her out of the way of a lightning bolt!

... And when he held onto my overcoat sleeve, I don't think I felt threatened as much as I was surprised by it. And when he caught up to me and blocked my path and put a hand on my shoulder, again I didn't feel too threatened, but maybe concerned at the time...

So, let me get this straight, he was rescuing her sleeve from spilled coffee and then chased after her to brush some lint off her shoulder?

And I'm the idiot?

Unlike yourself, I freely admit that I have more to learn. And it is an ongoing pursuit that I enjoy. That being said, I will never have you as a teacher unless you take a few courses on reading comprehension and basic logic... and for that matter, putdowns. And even then, never on anything to do with women - you get them even less than the average guy does.



Getting back to the thread - if he had only grabbed at her sleeve to ask what's up, that may be understandable to some (not me.) But once he followed and stopped her again, he proved her initial gut feeling correct - he has issues.

 

[GOLEAFSGO67]

Angel Eyes

Im gettin real horny. You think I can pop by and have a go at ya!

Really wanna role paly with a 'new' girl...but take it from Makin Love to a real hard bang!


Think your up for it!!!!!!

 

[tboy]

Hero: my bad, forgot about the hand on the shoulder incident and yeah, he outta be whipped for assaulting her....

But as for selective reading: you said a man should never put his hands on a woman without her permission, so according to your absolute statement: a man should ask permission before doing any of the examples I gave.

But hey, if you walk around with your hands in your pockets and elbows tucked in (like that woman on seinfeld) more power to you but there are hundreds, no, millions of people in this world who are "touchy feelie" and are always putting their hands on other people (men and women) with no real threat in mind....which is precisely what I think happened here.

 

[Herodotus]

Hero: my bad, forgot about the hand on the shoulder incident and yeah, he outta be whipped for assaulting her....

But as for selective reading: you said a man should never put his hands on a woman without her permission, so according to your absolute statement: a man should ask permission before doing any of the examples I gave.

But hey, if you walk around with your hands in your pockets and elbows tucked in (like that woman on seinfeld) more power to you but there are hundreds, no, millions of people in this world who are "touchy feelie" and are always putting their hands on other people (men and women) with no real threat in mind....which is precisely what I think happened here.

Well, there you go, tboy once again shows that he has selective comprehension and logic skills. And he still has no idea of what women are all about.

I did not say that you don't save someone from injury, but way to extrapolate to try and show how "right" you are. We were discussing a specific social instance and you did your usual thing and ran off on a tangent.

Anyone with half a brain knows that there are no absolutes in life. But in "real world" social settings, if you put your hands on a woman and she is uncomfortable, you don't do so again. And you certainly don't chase after someone and physically block their way. In fact, in many cultures, you do not touch women that you don't know at all, just as some cultures are more hands-on. But that's not what we're talking about here, so try and stay with the program, ok?

She was, in her own words, uncomfortable, surprised and concerned with him touching her repeatedly. That is all we know. But hey, why let the facts and what is meant in a specific set of circumstances get in the way of your argument, right? You just keep on inserting your thoughts and opinions, no matter how speculative or off-base they may be...

I'm done until Angel_Eyes replies again.

 

[Fabulous]

And I'm the idiot? .

Does your other/former handle here start with an M and end with a LAM?

 

[tboy]

Well, there you go, tboy once again shows that he has selective comprehension and logic skills. And he still has no idea of what women are all about.

I did not say that you don't save someone from injury, but way to extrapolate to try and show how "right" you are. We were discussing a specific social instance and you did your usual thing and ran off on a tangent.

Anyone with half a brain knows that there are no absolutes in life. ....

So, if one speaks in absolutes, does that mean you have half a brain?

You specifically wrote: "YOU DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON A WOMAN unless she gives permission"

Now, because you bring up comprehension, maybe you should take some english writing courses? Because you did NOT write: there are times when you should not put their hands on a woman.......

So, don't your arms get stiff walking around with them tucked in like that?

 

[jazzpig]

Herodotus,

I've been reluctant to pursue this while you and tboy have been going at it because I want to stay out of it and I don't want you getting the feeling that you're getting ganged up on. However, I do think that the stand you're taking with tboy is one of a more personal nature as opposed to what may have happened.

I believe that there is context in every way we relate to people, whether it's body language, words, and even physical contact. Why are some people so over the edge because he touched her. I think the problem is that she's presented herself as a delicate young woman, uncertain and vulnerable, trying to make her way in a treacherous business, and some automatically see this guy as some potential predator, thereby interpreting everything with this bias.
Please, read her posts again. She doesn't even react to this guy the way some are here. Even in her second post, she actually made it seem less threatening (not that it was even threatening the first time). But people continue pounding away on these "written in stone priciples" regardless of the circumstances and what she has actually said.

Tboy is being criticized for reading more into than there is. I think the real problem is that others are not reading into it enough and just taking a stand on the basis that there was some physical contact.
What's funny is that as I actually write physical contact, I sense all these negative connotations come up and there shouldn't. Physical contact does not necessarily mean assault, or aggression.

I read both of A.E.'s posts and I am astounded how people are are going over the edge. Again, she has every right to retreat from situation that she's not comfortable with, unconditionally. I don't think there is anyone here who said otherwise. Tboy said that in his first post...but he also chose to look at the bigger picture, as I and others have. Nothing more than that.
If things happened the way you think they did, A.E.'s posts would have been written in a different tone with more indignation.

I truely believe that the reason she posted this was because she knew she mishandled the situation and may have had regrets about it. If it were as black and white as some think, there would have been no need to ask the question.

BTW, my two fingers are getting tired!

 

[Brotherman]

But as for selective reading: you said a man should never put his hands on a woman without her permission, so according to your absolute statement: a man should ask permission before doing any of the examples I gave.

It's wrong to touch a women after she has said no. that's what he meant, but obviously you still don't get that.

 

[tboy]

It's wrong to touch a women after she has said no. that's what he meant, but obviously you still don't get that.

Sorry, in her original post she never said "no".....her words exactly were "please let me go".... maybe she meant no, but she didn't say that.....Now if she said "please don't touch me", then y'all have a point. Did she mean "let me leave"??? Was he that demanding that she needed his permission to leave/Go?

Yup, No means No but in this case, Go means No. Sorry, I didn't take Chickspeak in college......

As for the shoulder touching, I noticed that wasn't in her original story. Guess either it was selective memory or she decided to add it in in her subsequant post.

As Jazz states: you guys make it sound like she was being physically assaulted and he had her arms pinned in a death grip and they say WOMEN are drama queens?

 

[Rockslinger]

Hone your instincts and then go indy.

This sounds like good advice in any profession. Ever notice how many lawyers learn their craft at a big firm before they hung out their shingles?

 

[hunter001]

Funny thing about perceptions. If the same thing happened in a SC, the guy would be looking for his teeth in the parking lot/sidewalk.

 

[Angel_Eyes]

To be clear yet again:

The meeting took place in public and so when he took hold of my sleeve and then later blocked my path I DIDN'T feel too threatened, just concerned somewhat. He did put his hand on my shoulder, but I didn't think it was too big a deal. I think if the same situation happened where it was just him and I alone in somewhere, then I would probably have felt much more threatened. But in public with people around us it was alright.

Also with regards to explainations, I did tell him that I felt uneasy and didn't want to continue. When he wanted to know what the problem was specifically, I didn't have one, but I'm wondering if by telling him that I was uneasy around him if that wasn't a reason already, if not partially?

Angel: Why did I say the things I did? Because from the sounds of it, that is what it seems to be to me, as well as others.

As for your reason for uneasiness, you yourself said there was nothing wrong with him and he was personable, pleasant etc then go on to say even you yourself didn't know what it was. The point I'm trying to make is: the customer doesn't have to be perfect, YOU do. That is what it is all about in this industry.

Is there such a thing as a 'perfect' man or woman or escort or customer etc.? I know I'm not, and if there is I'd sure like for you to show me.

As for NYC rates: Those higher rates are for COURTESANS and the cream of the crop. You can also get escorts for a lot less than $350.00. Again, from the sounds of your posts I get the feeling that you think you're above and beyond the rest of the beautiful, talented women working this industry and YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN ONE CLIENT YET.

Well I can now say that I have seen one client all the way through and despite it being a very nerve-racking experience, I'm happy to say I survived without fainting and/or having a stroke or something. And I DID NOT get the same uneasy feeling from him as I did from the first gentleman either initially or after our conversation and so when he suggested we proceed further, it was ok. It was not because he was Brad Pitt/Eric Bana handsome that it was fine, but he seemed like a decent person and I felt 'alright' with him as opposed to the first guy. And even though I HATED the guy's hairy back with a passion, I still think the outcome with him is better than anything that could have come from the first gentleman with the uneasiness I felt.

Sorry, I'm still getting the "i've got a golden pussy" vibe from you.

With all the assumptions you've made about me, this could be the first one you've gotten right so far. My vagina is most definitely golden...............as I am a natural blonde. ;-)

As for "regular or average" guys, dear, you're going to get BELOW average guys and some that you'd use the word FUGLY to describe. Hence the reason many SEE escorts. Have you been to a terb party? No offence guys but we are NOT going to be featured on Canada's Next Top Model anytime soon lol.

I do understand that guys will be below average and FUGLY as you so eloquently put it, but I was trying to be tactful. I guess the only way to eliminate that is to do as some have suggested and post what I'm looking for in my ads. Otherwise I do realize what I'm facing when it comes to clients.

Tell me this: have you even looked at the various escort websites out there? Do you know who your competition is? The reason I said what I did because there are a bevy of amazing women out there but you obviously feel you're better (by far) than they are. Tell me this: why would a guy, sight unseen mind you, choose you at 1.5 times the rates of the others?

Here's a free lesson in business management: When you enter into a sector and are an unknown. Pricing and placing yourself at the top tier of that sector is not always the best thing to do. The typical thing to do is to offer your product or service at or below the going rate to garner business then once established and word gets out that you provide a superior product or service, then you can begin raising your rates. Hell, even Bentley and Rolls Royce sold their products at the market rate until they were established.

I really don't understand your argument that I'm 'competing against other women'. I don't see other SPs as 'competiion', but rather I just see myself as another option in the market if I'm here to stay. I'm just doing my own thing and other SPs are doing their own thing and that's that. This isn't like you're deciding to buy a Toyota or a Honda and once you bought it you're sticking with it for the next 5-6 years. I see escorting as more like food. If you like steak, go buy steak. If you like shrimp, go buy shrimp and if you feel like oysters, then buy that. You buy, consume and go out and buy some more. And just like food there's plenty of variety in SPs and there's a decent sized pie here that SPs can all share in. I don't know why there's a need to 'fight or compete' for a piece of it tooth and nail.

Ultimately its the gentlemen who decide who they want to see and I'm just one girl among thousands, so I don't know why I'd be competing against other SPs when its the men making the choice as to who they want to spend their money with. I could look like a supermodel and give men the best sexual experience they've ever had and even then its not like I would corner the market like Microsoft does with its OS. It would just mean I would have more appointments, but that doesn't mean all other SPs out there would suddenly go out of business.

So if people are interested in seeing me, that's great, if not, that's fine too. But I'd just be another option available that men can choose from. Just as men can choose to pay $1000 or more to see a pornstar or choose to go with someone much less costly, there's plenty to choose from. Heck I'm not even everyone's type physcially. There are guys who like big butts or really big breasts or full figured or women of a certain race or background or simply don't like blondes among other things. If a guy is looking for an Asian woman say, I wouldn't be on his radar no matter what I was charging as I'm not what he was looking for anyways. So how can I be competing with other women when the tastes of men are so diverse? The only thing I can do is if someone is interested in my type of look, then to provide the best service I can if they come calling.

 

[The Fruity Hare]

To be clear yet again:





Is there such a thing as a 'perfect' man or woman or escort or customer etc.? I know I'm not, and if there is I'd sure like for you to show me.

............



The only thing I can do is if someone is interested in my type of look, then to provide the best service I can if they come calling.

Well said.

Do the best you can, don't worry too much about all the nitpicking and if you do continue in the business make sure it is on your terms.

 

[tboy]

AE: just a couple of things then I'm done:
1) Sorry, if you're an escort, other escorts are your competition.
2) I'm happy that you finally bit the bullet and went through with a date. Maybe you were less "uneasy" because he wasn't the first that you'd met?
3) PPL have jumped all over me because "I don't know women" but if you know men, and I have yet to meet one that does, you know we have a difficult time accepting the "just because" excuse. Same as the "what's wrong" (when there obviously is something wrong) and we get the "nothing". The only guys IME that do semi-accept the "just because" excuse are the assholes that women flock to that tend to wipe their feet on women.
4) LOL good comeback on the "golden pussy" kudos on that one lol.

 

[MindJohn]

...I still didn't feel quite comfortable. He seemed ok and personable from what I could tell and everything seemed to be going the way I thought it would (meet, chat abit, then the session), except the uneasiness didn't go away.

We talked for about 10 minutes or so and then he said that he was satisfied with everything and wanted to continue on with the next part of our appointment. At this point I apoligised and told him I was feeling uncomfortable with going further and that we should end things here and he looked surprised and asked me what was wrong. I told him again that I didn't feel comfortable enough to go on, but that didn't seem to be an adaquate explaination for him and he wanted to know specifically what the problem was and what could be done to proceed with our appointment. This went on for a few minutes and it didn't look to be going anywhere so I apologised again and as I began to get up to leave, he took hold of one of my overcoat sleeves briefly before I asked him to please let me go and pulled away. As I was walking away though, he got up and followed me and then overtook me and blocked my path. There was another discussion for abit and then he took out his wallet and showed me that it was full of bills and asked me how much more would it take to change my mind. I told him that I thought that this meeting was to see if we were comfortable with each other and if one or the other wasn't then the appointment could end. There was another few minutes where I was repeating myself several times and then finally he relented and let me leave after I agreed to keep in contact with him and maybe see him in the future.

His stature did kind of intimidate me abit I think and during our conversation, the way he was looking at me made me not look directly at him very often and caused me to use my arms to try and cover myself abit.

So I'm wondering was it wrong to stop the appointment?

Yuck! I know I wouldn't want to be with a working girl who didn't stop any such an appointment before anything sexual happened.

I know I'm not a woman, and don't have too many examples of male behavior to compare to, but the signs are all there in your words. You should have left in as much haste as possible, and perhaps with a bit more self-assuredness on your exterior.

When all women stop selling sex to, and stop mating with men like this, the world will be a better place.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Yes, you were wrong !

I met the first person that I had made an appointment with yesterday. He looked to be in his early to mid-thirties and when I first saw him, I felt abit uneasy, but I figured that was just my nervousness and that things should settle down after I met and talked to him for abit. So we did chat for a while about regular things and I still didn't feel quite comfortable. He seemed ok and personable from what I could tell and everything seemed to be going the way I thought it would (meet, chat abit, then the session), except the uneasiness didn't go away.

We talked for about 10 minutes or so and then he said that he was satisfied with everything and wanted to continue on with the next part of our appointment. At this point I apoligised and told him I was feeling uncomfortable with going further and that we should end things here and he looked surprised and asked me what was wrong. I told him again that I didn't feel comfortable enough to go on, but that didn't seem to be an adaquate explaination for him and he wanted to know specifically what the problem was and what could be done to proceed with our appointment. This went on for a few minutes and it didn't look to be going anywhere so I apologised again and as I began to get up to leave, he took hold of one of my overcoat sleeves briefly before I asked him to please let me go and pulled away. As I was walking away though, he got up and followed me and then overtook me and blocked my path. There was another discussion for abit and then he took out his wallet and showed me that it was full of bills and asked me how much more would it take to change my mind. I told him that I thought that this meeting was to see if we were comfortable with each other and if one or the other wasn't then the appointment could end. There was another few minutes where I was repeating myself several times and then finally he relented and let me leave after I agreed to keep in contact with him and maybe see him in the future.

Throughout the whole time, he seemed to be calm but quite persistent and I guess from the time I saw him, I wasn't sure I could go through with it. His stature did kind of intimidate me abit I think and during our conversation, the way he was looking at me made me not look directly at him very often and caused me to use my arms to try and cover myself abit. But overall he seemed ok, not unattractive and just your average guy. So I'm wondering was it wrong to stop the appointment? Should I have just bit the bullet and have gone through with it even though I didn't feel too comfortable with him? I guess I was pretty jittery and maybe if he wasn't the first person I met, it might have turned out differently, I don't know. Hopefully I'll be a little less stressed now when I meet the next person.

If you have still not figured this out after 5 pages of balh balh blah maybe you are only seeking attention anyway

 

[tboy]

Yuck! I know I wouldn't want to be with a working girl who didn't stop any such an appointment before anything sexual happened.

I know I'm not a woman, and don't have too many examples of male behavior to compare to, but the signs are all there in your words. You should have left in as much haste as possible, and perhaps with a bit more self-assuredness on your exterior.

When all women stop selling sex to, and stop mating with men like this, the world will be a better place.

LOL Sir Lancelot to the rescue!! Dunt ta da DAAAAAA.....

If guys stopped acting like this there'd be no more babies! Shit, I guess you've never heard of "playing hard to get"????

Anyhow, this issue is dead, let's all just move along, nothing to see here!