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Warning to all terbites crossing the border!!!

Ms.FemmeFatale

Behind the camera
Jun 18, 2011
3,125
1
36
www.msfemmefatale.com
Border guards have been given extraordinary powers to search and seize, acting on mere suspicion. They were given these extra powers because thwarting a terrorist attack was considered even more important than citizens' rights. The urgency to snuff out the imminent or immediate threat of great harm, right there, right now, is enough to justify the extra powers.

The thing we should be recognizing as being very bad is that these extra powers they were given to help them combat terrorism in airports are being used in the quest to clear up ordinary crimes, i.e crimes having no connection to terrorism.

The threat of terrorism violence is the only reason for, and justification of, giving the authorities the right and the power to search where they like and seize what they like, and refuse what and whom they like.

Now you, elise, as I understand it, are saying: hey -- now they have been given these extraordinary combat-terrorism powers, it's ok for the authorities to use these powers to combat child porn and drugs.

I too don't have a problem with LE getting those responsible for child pornography, drugs, (murder, rape and kidnapping too). What I have a problem with is with the authorities using their powers of warrantless go-anywhere search and seizure, to combat these crimes.

Citizens have a right not to be subjected to warrantless searches. There is no justification for abusing those rights, just because the accused person happens to be in an airport, or near a border. The abuse of rights is only justified if there is, or might be, an imminent threat of massive deadly violence, like blowing up an aeroplane.

Ordinary crime does not carry that imminent threat. For that reason, ordinary crime does not justify the use of the special measures.

You would surely be hugely outraged if the police were to suggest that they should be allowed to extend their combat-terrorism-in-airport powers, to stop and search your car, driving along the 401, on the grounds simply that they want to see if you have any child porn. Your outrage would not be reduced just because they happen to find some ch.po. in a couple of cases.

So why are you not equally outraged when they use their terrorism airport powers to search for purveyors of child porn in airports? If the authorities have good reasons for suspecting ch.po., by all means let them obtain a warrant and search the suspect in accordance with the warrant, and if they then get the evidence to justify it, arrest the person and get ready for the trial.

It's a question of basic respect for human rights. We should not be content to set aside our basic human rights, on the grounds simply that it would make it easier to catch ch.po. purveyors, or drug dealers, or murderers.

I shudder when I come across people who have so little regard for their (and my) basic human rights that they are happy with the idea that it's ok to abuse my right to be free of unwarranted search, in their quest to catch ordinary criminals. IMO, the major role of government is to prevent such abuse of individual rights, and I would prefer to see us all pushing them in that direction.
Maybe that is the part you are confused about then. There is no "right" to travel from one country to the next. It is nice, I agree but there is no where that I know of where it is written it is a basic human right you be allowed to go anywhere in any country in the world. Basic human rights to food, water, shelter, safety from harm, etc I get those things. Travelling a basic human right??? No, sorry.

Which is why I believe that cops have to play by a different set a rules as they have to follow our constitutional rights. Border security of another country simply does not fall into this category. What I will say however is the when our own boarder security when we are in Canada, and we are under our rights given to us via our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That one gets me a bit irked.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,631
7,075
113
Being a Nexus card holder explains a lot. I can see why you don't want to risk loosing the privilege of quick crossings and declare everything. The average "tourist" typically can't justify a Nexus card because they don't cross the border frequently enough to warrant one. (NEXUS is designed to expedite the border clearance process for low-risk, pre-approved travellers into Canada and the United States).
....
$50 for 5 years makes it pretty worthwhile even for the occasional tourist in terms of time saved at crossings.
 

elise

A car, not a girl.
Sep 22, 2004
404
0
16
$50 for 5 years makes it pretty worthwhile even for the occasional tourist in terms of time saved at crossings.
I don't think they will let you get a Nexus card if you can't demonstrate the need for one.
If everyone gets one the Nexus line will be like the regular line.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,333
13
38
Understate?? Being lucky has nothing to do with it. I am a Nexus cardholder, so I declare everything I that I bring back (to the next highest dollar) & sometimes increase the value by $10-$15 in case I forgot something or made an error calculating my total. So, I have no fear of "getting caught" by a random search.
Ah okay, sorry bro, but if you understate a little, no criticism from me. ;)
 

OddSox

Active member
May 3, 2006
3,148
2
36
Ottawa
Five guys in an Audi Quattro arrive at the border.

A customs agent stops them and says, “I’m sorry, but it’s illegal to put five people in a Quattro. One of you will have to get out.”

“What do you mean, illegal?” asks the driver.

“Quattro means four,” replies the official. “Not five.”

“But Quattro is the name of the car,” the stunned driver replies, “not its seating capacity. Have a look at the papers. It IS designed to carry five persons.”

“You can’t pull that one on me,” replies the customs agent. “Quattro means four. You have five in your car, and you are therefore breaking the law. Either one person gets out or I’ll have to arrest you.”

The driver begins losing his temper. “You idiot! Call your supervisor; we want to speak to someone with more intelligence!”

“I’m sorry,” responds the official, “he can’t come. He’s busy with two guys in a Fiat Uno.”
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,750
3
0
I don't think they will let you get a Nexus card if you can't demonstrate the need for one.
If everyone gets one the Nexus line will be like the regular line.
I have one and my only reasons are: Cross the border a number of times a year, live within a reasonable distance of the border, have relatives who live quite close to the border.

My observation of the Niagara crossings (Peace Bridge and Whirlpool Bridge) and the Champlain - Lacolle border port (as well as a number of smaller crossings) is that back-ups in the NEXUS lanes of more than a car or two is very seldom an issue.
 

DB123

Active member
Jul 15, 2013
4,731
3
38
Her place
there are so many weirdos on terb i've noticed. being weird isn't necessarily a bad thing but i noticed there are several members who post only in the lounge and never review.
It's like being all over some board for cat owners prattling on and then someone says something about my cat and I'm all like "no worries here, i don't 'own a cat' "
 

elise

A car, not a girl.
Sep 22, 2004
404
0
16
It's like being all over some board for cat owners prattling on and then someone says something about my cat and I'm all like "no worries here, i don't 'own a cat' "
Just noticed… WhOiSyOuRdAdDy banned… that was fast.
Guess Fred has taken a page out of the border guard handbook and deemed him inadmissible to Terb !
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,333
13
38
Five guys in an Audi Quattro arrive at the border.

A customs agent stops them and says, “I’m sorry, but it’s illegal to put five people in a Quattro. One of you will have to get out.”

“What do you mean, illegal?” asks the driver.

“Quattro means four,” replies the official. “Not five.”

“But Quattro is the name of the car,” the stunned driver replies, “not its seating capacity. Have a look at the papers. It IS designed to carry five persons.”

“You can’t pull that one on me,” replies the customs agent. “Quattro means four. You have five in your car, and you are therefore breaking the law. Either one person gets out or I’ll have to arrest you.”

The driver begins losing his temper. “You idiot! Call your supervisor; we want to speak to someone with more intelligence!”

“I’m sorry,” responds the official, “he can’t come. He’s busy with two guys in a Fiat Uno.”

And one of the guys in the Uno said "Well, suck on my Testarossa"
 

DB123

Active member
Jul 15, 2013
4,731
3
38
Her place
It's like being all over some board for cat owners prattling on and then someone says something about my cat and I'm all like "no worries here, i don't 'own a cat' "
Just noticed… WhOiSyOuRdAdDy banned… that was fast.
Guess Fred has taken a page out of the border guard handbook and deemed him inadmissible to Terb !
Do a good deed today...check! :thumb:
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,631
7,075
113
I don't think they will let you get a Nexus card if you can't demonstrate the need for one.
....
No reason is needed (speaking as someone who has one). I don't even remember being asked why I wanted one.
 

Hip

Active member
Mar 1, 2011
440
41
28
Border guards have been given extraordinary powers to search and seize, acting on mere suspicion. They were given these extra powers because thwarting a terrorist attack was considered even more important than citizens' rights. The urgency to snuff out the imminent or immediate threat of great harm, right there, right now, is enough to justify the extra powers.

The thing we should be recognizing as being very bad is that these extra powers they were given to help them combat terrorism in airports are being used in the quest to clear up ordinary crimes, i.e crimes having no connection to terrorism.

The threat of terrorism violence is the only reason for, and justification of, giving the authorities the right and the power to search where they like and seize what they like, and refuse what and whom they like.

Now you, elise, as I understand it, are saying: hey -- now they have been given these extraordinary combat-terrorism powers, it's ok for the authorities to use these powers to combat child porn and drugs.

I too don't have a problem with LE getting those responsible for child pornography, drugs, (murder, rape and kidnapping too). What I have a problem with is with the authorities using their powers of warrantless go-anywhere search and seizure, to combat these crimes.

Citizens have a right not to be subjected to warrantless searches. There is no justification for abusing those rights, just because the accused person happens to be in an airport, or near a border. The abuse of rights is only justified if there is, or might be, an imminent threat of massive deadly violence, like blowing up an aeroplane.

Ordinary crime does not carry that imminent threat. For that reason, ordinary crime does not justify the use of the special measures.

You would surely be hugely outraged if the police were to suggest that they should be allowed to extend their combat-terrorism-in-airport powers, to stop and search your car, driving along the 401, on the grounds simply that they want to see if you have any child porn. Your outrage would not be reduced just because they happen to find some ch.po. in a couple of cases.

So why are you not equally outraged when they use their terrorism airport powers to search for purveyors of child porn in airports? If the authorities have good reasons for suspecting ch.po., by all means let them obtain a warrant and search the suspect in accordance with the warrant, and if they then get the evidence to justify it, arrest the person and get ready for the trial.

It's a question of basic respect for human rights. We should not be content to set aside our basic human rights, on the grounds simply that it would make it easier to catch ch.po. purveyors, or drug dealers, or murderers.

I shudder when I come across people who have so little regard for their (and my) basic human rights that they are happy with the idea that it's ok to abuse my right to be free of unwarranted search, in their quest to catch ordinary criminals. IMO, the major role of government is to prevent such abuse of individual rights, and I would prefer to see us all pushing them in that direction.
If you think these human rights violations are about terrorism, or CP, or ecology threats you are being terribly naïve. Its about revenue. Its about collecting fines for volumes and volumes of small and large customs and tarriffs infractions.
 

elise

A car, not a girl.
Sep 22, 2004
404
0
16
No reason is needed (speaking as someone who has one). I don't even remember being asked why I wanted one.
Good to know. Now I need to get off my ass and apply.
Ever go across along with non-nexus people (in the car) through the nexus lane? I'm thinking family...
 

DB123

Active member
Jul 15, 2013
4,731
3
38
Her place
Good to know. Now I need to get off my ass and apply.
Ever go across along with non-nexus people (in the car) through the nexus lane? I'm thinking family...
I'm almost positive its an all or nothing situation. My in-Laws have Nexus and we don't, if we're together its the slow lane
 

Young_City

Resident Scumbag.
Feb 1, 2007
418
0
0
Had a similar situation flying down from the States a few years ago. Ironically, in my situation only one of the agents was rude to me as well.

I had to unlock my phone for them and enter the password for my laptop. (They didn't ask me what the password was and just asked me to enter it.) They spent about a minute on my computer and a few minutes going over my phone.

As a precaution, from that day on, I always delete my browser history every night and my iPhone and iPad browsers are both set to always be in private mode. I also delete any pictures I receive via text that are meant to be private. Same goes with deleting individuals texts in a thread that are meant to be private.
 
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