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Voting Fraud

TOVisitor

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frasier said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/w...&ex=1176955200&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

Funny how the preceived cry over voting fraud has died down, after the Democrats have won.
Turns out there was nothing to cry about all along.
There's hope for you yet, Frasier.

The right wing used "voter fraud" as a subterfuge to supress voting by minorities, the elderly, and the poor.

One of the reasons several of the 8 USAs were fired, ostensibly, was that they were not prosecuting enough voter fraud cases. The ones who were so labeled did not prosecute because, after investigation, they could find no evidence of fraud. Apparently, finding no evidence is not enough for Bushco.
 

TOVisitor

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frasier said:
This is a non issue played up..dure to the upcoming election.
A non-issue Frasier? You seem smart enough to be educated on the subject.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/013581.php

The 'lost' RNC emails story deserves and will get a lot of attention. But tomorrow's Times has another story that will probably generate less heat but is closer to the core of what the Purge story is about. Since President Bush came into office, the Justice Department has made 'voter fraud' prosecutions a high priority. Yet, not for lack of effort, they've barely been able to find any examples of it. The grand effort has boiled down to a program to send a few handfuls folks -- mainly black -- to jail for what are in almost every case notional or unintentional voting infractions.

As those of you who follow this issue know, the vast number of the claims about 'voter fraud' are based on poorly kept voter rolls. Joe Smith is registered to vote in New Jersey and New York! The small print is that he lived in New Jersey but then moved to New York. The election board in New Jersey just hasn't taken him off the rolls yet. It may sound like I'm joking. But most of the scare stories about 'voter fraud' are just as stupid as that example.

At TPMmuckraker at the moment, we're giving a very close look to the 'voter fraud' claims in Wisconsin that Karl Rove was so interested in. GOP activists were incredibly disappointed and angry when the US Attorney in Milwaukee brought only a tiny handful of prosecutions, after the activists had charged a massive conspiracy to steal the 2004 elections from Republicans. But the government actually lost a stunningly high percentage of even those cases because they were so weak.

Cynthia C. Alicea, 25, was indicted for double-voting. The evidence was that election officials found she'd registered to vote twice. She was acquited because it turned out election officials told her to fill out another card because the first one had been filled out wrong. Pretty lurid stuff. There was no evidence she'd ever voted twice. The other three people indicted in Milwaukee for double voting were acquited too.

Out of the tiny number of bona fide voter fraud cases, the great majority fall into two categories. The first are cases where workers hired in voter registration drives appear to sign up non-existent people to get paid more money from the sponsors of the drive. The actual examples of this are exceedingly rare. But since the people don't exist, no one ever shows up to vote in their name.

The second are felons or parolees who either register to vote or actually vote, in most cases not knowing they're not eligible to vote.

Here's one great example from the Times article is the case of 43 year old grandmother Kimberly Prude ...

Ms. Prude’s path to jail began after she attended a Democratic rally in Milwaukee featuring the Rev. Al Sharpton in late 2004. Along with hundreds of others, she marched to City Hall and registered to vote. Soon after, she sent in an absentee ballot.

Four years earlier, though, Ms. Prude had been convicted of trying to cash a counterfeit county government check worth $1,254. She was placed on six years’ probation.

Ms. Prude said she believed that she was permitted to vote because she was not in jail or on parole, she testified in court. Told by her probation officer that she could not vote, she said she immediately called City Hall to rescind her vote, a step she was told was not necessary.

“I made a big mistake, like I said, and I truly apologize for it,” Ms. Prude said during her trial in 2005. That vote, though, resulted in a felony conviction and sent her to jail for violating probation.

The whole thing really does pretty much come down to a thankfully not very successful effort to send a bunch of poor blacks to prison for unintentional voting violations.

Past Justice Department policy was not to indict in cases where there was no clear intent to tamper with an election. But the Bush administration did away with that policy leading to serious time for hardened vote criminals like Ms. Prude.

Another example is that of Pakistani immigrant Usman Ali. He'd been in the US for ten years and owned a jewelry store. He was in line one day at the DMV when a clerk put a registration form in front of him along with other forms. Ali hastily filled it out. He never made any attempt to vote. But the mistake got him deported back to Pakistan where he's now trying to rebuild his life with his US citizen wife and daughter.

We're certainly lucky to be rid of Mr. Ali and his efforts to undermine our democracy.

Most of the examples, like these, are genuinely disgusting -- non-malicious errors for which people get serious punishment because federal prosecutors are under immense pressure to find someone to indict for voter fraud. But it's also easy to get lost in or distracted by the individual stories. The bigger picture is what you need to focus on. And the picture looks like this.

Republican party officials and elected officials use bogus claims of vote fraud to do three things: 1) to stymie voter registration drives and get-out-the-vote efforts in poor and minority neighborhoods, 2) purge voter rolls of legitimate voters and 3) institute voter ID laws aimed at making it harder for low-income and minority voters to vote.

This sounds like hyperbole but it is simply the truth. (A great example of this in microcosm was the 2002 senate election in South Dakota -- Johnson v. Thune -- in which Republicans spent the entire election ranting about a massive voter fraud conspiracy on the state's Indian reservations, charges which turned out to be completely bogus but had the aim of keeping voting down on the reservations. You can find much more on this in the TPM archives. Go to the search feature and type in some combination of 'fraud south dakota' etc. I'll try to write more recapping the story soon.)

The tie-in with the US Attorney story is that the White House and the Republican National Committee have used the power of the Department of Justice to accomplish those three goals that I outlined above. Only most of the relatively non-partisan and professional US Attorneys simply didn't find any actual fraud. Choosing not to indict people on bogus charges got at least two of the US Attorneys (Iglesias and McKay) fired. And we are seeing evidence that others may have been nudged out less directly for the same reasons. In turn they've been replaced by a new crop of highly-political party operative prosecutors who, in the gentle wording of the Times, "may not be so reticent" about issuing indictments against people who have committed technical voting infractions with no intent to cast a fraudulent ballot. Along the way, the fever to find someone, anyone guilty of committing even a technical infraction has landed folks like Ms. Prude in the slammer. They are what you might call the prosecutorial road kill in the Rove Republican party's effort to ride roughshod over American citizens' voting rights to entrench the GOP as the country's permanent electoral majority.

Who's running all this? Who's put it all in motion. Look at the documents that have already been released. It's been run out of Karl Rove's office at the White House.
 

papasmerf

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Small groups (cells) working towards a common goal can remain clandestine.
 

danmand

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The hallmark of an undemocratic system is the difficulty it places on
the ability for everyone to vote.

Inevitably, any complicated voter registration will tend to make it difficult
for the poor and disadvantaged, the migrant workers for example, to vote.
 

papasmerf

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danmand said:
The hallmark of an undemocratic system is the difficulty it places on
the ability for everyone to vote.

Inevitably, any complicated voter registration will tend to make it difficult
for the poor and disadvantaged, the migrant workers for example, to vote.
Ummm send in your name and proof of birth and youcan vote...........WTF are you talking about????????
 

TOVisitor

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danmand said:
The hallmark of an undemocratic system is the difficulty it places on
the ability for everyone to vote.

Inevitably, any complicated voter registration will tend to make it difficult
for the poor and disadvantaged, the migrant workers for example, to vote.
Ordinarily I would agree with you, but the Republicans have been pulling stunts of this kind for years.

It's not the system, it's people who are gaming the system to supress votes.

The other day, a voting fraud case in Minnesota brought by the USA was summarily thrown out of court by three appeals court judges (2 of them Republicans) as being wholly without merit. The USA in question didn't even have the guts to attend the dressing down that the Appeals Court gave to his assistant.
 

papasmerf

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TOVisitor said:
Ordinarily I would agree with you, but the Republicans have been pulling stunts of this kind for years.

It's not the system, it's people who are gaming the system to supress votes.

The other day, a voting fraud case in Minnesota brought by the USA was summarily thrown out of court by three appeals court judges (2 of them Republicans) as being wholly without merit. The USA in question didn't even have the guts to attend the dressing down that the Appeals Court gave to his assistant.
So you fled to Canada and yet you still vote??
 

TOVisitor

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papasmerf said:
Ummm send in your name and proof of birth and youcan vote...........WTF are you talking about????????
Are you stupid or just uneducated?

Just try the Google on the Internets.

From: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20041029.html

Recent Examples of Racially-Based Vote Suppression in the U.S.

According to a report by the NAACP and People for the American Way, entitled "The Long Shadow of Jim Crow: Voter Intimidation and Suppression in America Today," ("the NAACP report"), a Republican effort in New Jersey in 1981 provided a model that has been repeated across the country in the last two decades.

The reason for the intimidation is plain: According to the NAACP report, in the last few decades, "African American voters have largely been loyal to the Democratic Party, resulting in the prevalence of Republican efforts to suppress minority turnout."

In 1981's "model" effort, the Republican National Committee and the New Jersey Republican State Committee engaged in "widespread challenging of individual voters and an Election Day presence at African American and Latino precincts featuring armed guards and dire warnings of criminal penalties for voting offenses."

More recently, armed plainclothes officers from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement went to the homes of elderly black voters to investigate the March 2003 mayoral election. And in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, "five Republican poll watchers - including two staff members of Senator Tim Hutchinson's office - allegedly focused exclusively on African Americans, asking them for identification and taking photographs during the first day of early voting."

Perhaps the most famous recent example of racially-based vote suppression in the United States took place during the presidential election of 2000. The State of Florida ordered implementation of a purge list to remove voters from the rolls. The purge disenfranchised thousands of eligible voters - primarily African Americans. These citizens were prevented from casting ballots through their largely erroneous - and humiliating - classification as convicted felons.

After Bush v. Gore decided the election, a large group of U.S. Congresspersons attempted to lodge a protest on the Senate floor, excoriating this practice (and other irregularities in the 2000 Presidential election). At the time, the Senate included not a single African-American member. And shamefully, not one Senator was willing to give the protesters the signature needed to allow their speeches to be heard by the Senate.

Earlier this year, Florida once again ordered implementation of a purge list that would have removed thousands of eligible voters from the rolls. Fortunately, the state decided to back off when news media investigations revealed the truth about the list - it included thousands of qualified voters, and it heavily targeted African-Americans.

All Republicans ought to decry these practices. Instead, only a few months ago, Republican State Representative John Pappageorge from Michigan was quoted as saying that "If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election." Michigan is, of course, one of the "swing states" in which both Kerry and Bush have been trying very hard to garner a majority and facilitate an electoral win. And Detroit is over 80% African-American.
 
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papasmerf said:
So you fled to Canada and yet you still vote??
That doesn't matter.

I'm Canadian but still a registered voter in Cook County. Me and a few thousand dead guys.

I plan on voting for the Dems in 08 just to cancel your vote. :D
 

papasmerf

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lookingforitallthetime said:
That doesn't matter.

I'm Canadian but still a registered voter in Cook County. Me and a few thousand dead guys.

I plan on voting for the Dems in 08 just to cancel your vote. :D
Bastards
 

danmand

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lookingforitallthetime said:
That doesn't matter.

I'm Canadian but still a registered voter in Cook County. Me and a few thousand dead guys.

I plan on voting for the Dems in 08 just to cancel your vote.
In Cook county the dead people vote democratic.:D
 

papasmerf

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danmand said:
In Cook county the dead people vote democratic.:D
ask woody in Erie county we applaud it
 

mrpolarbear

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danmand said:
In Cook county the dead people vote democratic.
So do us live ones:p
 

Aardvark154

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lookingforitallthetime said:
I'm Canadian but still a registered voter in Cook County. Me and a few thousand dead guys.

I plan on voting for the Dems in 08 just to cancel your vote.
Well at least thank goodness for the Electoral College. :D
 

Asterix

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A larger measure of how people are excluded or disenfranchised from voting, is the staggering number of people incarcerated in this country, and how in many states, mostly Southern, that stigma is life-long. Nearly 1.5 million people in the US who were convicted felons and are out of the justice system, are excluded from voting for life. By out of the system, I mean they have served their time, or are no longer on parole or probation. In other words, they have paid their debt to society. Nearly 3/4 of those imprisoned since the 1980's (beginning a twenty year, four-fold increase in the US prison population), were due to non-violent offenses, mainly for much higher sentences for drug offenses. Minorities, especially Blacks, are disproportionately represented in these numbers. I'm not suggesting that those still within the prison system should not have their voting rights rescinded, but do we really want to contribute to the creation of a sub-class of citizens in the US, by denying people who have paid their debt the most basic right in any democracy? We have an incarceration rate per capita that would have impressed old Joe Stalin, the highest in the world, and considering some of the competition, that's saying something. If we only have barriers to allow those who have made mistakes, back in, we're gonna have to pony up. Big time. The prison-industrial complex in this country is becoming one of the most dependable growth industries we have.
 
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Aardvark154

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Asterix said:
A larger measure of how people are excluded or disenfranchised from voting, is the staggering number people incarcerated in this country, and how in many states, mostly Southern, that stigma is life-long. . . I'm not suggesting that those still within the prison system should not have their voting rights rescinded, but do we really want to contribute to the creation of a sub-class of citizens in the US, by denying people who have paid their debt the most basic right in any democracy?
The various U.S. states probably should have some process for the rehabilitation of the voting rights of convicted felons. However, I do not feel that it should be "automatic" e.g. walk out the prison door and be able to vote or be able to vote five years after you walk out the prison door. The loss of rights as a convicted felon should serve as a possible deterrent. You should have to prove your rehabilitation and reentry into civil society - many do so rehabilitate, however, others do not and society at large should be rewarding the former rather than the later.
 

Asterix

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Aardvark154 said:
The various U.S. states probably should have some process for the rehabilitation of the voting rights of convicted felons. However, I do not feel that it should be "automatic" e.g. walk out the prison door and be able to vote or be able to vote five years after you walk out the prison door. The loss of rights as a convicted felon should serve as a possible deterrent. You should have to prove your rehabilitation and reentry into civil society - many do so rehabilitate, however, others do not and society at large should be rewarding the former rather than the later.
Many states do reinstate voting rights over a time-line after release, it is not necessarily automatic. The only states that make it truly automatic are those that take it away for life, such as Florida, with no appeal (big surprise). Again, do we really want to have a society where we tell millions of people, "sorry you messed up, but there's no chance you're relevant anymore". No other democracy in the world comes close to this.
 
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