Toronto Passions

US Judge blocks Trump's birthright citizenship order, calls it 'blatantly unconstitutional'

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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IIRC, the Democratic Party was banned in the South during Reconstruction.

Google it.
I think you are thinking of the states not being allowed back into the Union for a time.
The Democratic party itself wasn't banned.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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Let me explain to you what I wrote there, as you appear to be challenged.

The Feds appoint Federal court judges. The state appoints state court judges. So you could argue that a left-leaning state like WA would appoint a left-leaning judge.

But it was a federal court and Reagan appointment. Of a conservative justice.

Hopefully that assists you.
Let me explain where you went wrong, as you appear to be challenged.

Judge John Coughenour was appointed by the Reagan administration in 1981 having mostly worked as a law professor at the University of Washington (not exactly a hotbed of conservatism) prior to his appointment. He only practised law for 4 years following his call to the bar. In my experience 19 out of 20 law professors lean left. His private practice was in Seattle. The court he sits on holds hearings in Seattle and Tacoma. He's sitting in one of the most liberal districts in America. He's supported a number of other legal positions posited by the left such as finding a violent predator law to be unconstitutional, and has opposed mandatory minimum sentencing. He's not known for any noteworthy conservative rulings.

Yes, Liberal judges can be found in Seattle. The Dems knew that. Why do you question their wisdom, when they were correct?
 
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Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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I've told you this before.
Given your track record of being wildly wrong more often than chance when it comes to partisan aspects of the judicial system, I use you as a rule of thumb.
If you strongly take a position on a piece of judicial reasoning that has strong partisan aspects, then as a first approximation, I play the percentages and assume the opposite is true.

Is that a magic trick that always works? Of course not.
It's not foolproof.
But it is a very good quick rule of thumb for when I don't feel like reading the actual filings and works as a starting point that is on solid ground.
You chose your silly hat, now wear it proudly.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
All this shows is that Democrats are at least smart enough to know where to find the judges who will rubber stamp their legal causes.
Which is not as effective as putting your hand-picked judges on the Supreme Court to rubber stamp your cases.
 
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Dutch Oven

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Which is not as effective as putting your hand-picked judges on the Supreme Court to rubber stamp your cases.
Law is politics.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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Is that not a sign of the decline of the American Empire?
Law has always been politics, so it can't be a measure of decline.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Is that not a sign of the decline of the American Empire?
Not really.
Law has always been politics.
The question is how much and how blatant.

That the Supreme Court is unabashedly corrupt and partisan right now is not great, but if you are a believer in American Empire, a corrupt judiciary isn't necessarily a sign of decline.
After all, if it obeys the Emperor, then things are still good in the Imperial mindset.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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Not really.
Law has always been politics.
The question is how much and how blatant.

That the Supreme Court is unabashedly corrupt and partisan right now is not great, but if you are a believer in American Empire, a corrupt judiciary isn't necessarily a sign of decline.
After all, if it obeys the Emperor, then things are still good in the Imperial mindset.
I think we have to agree to disagree on this point.

The American Empire has from it's creation celebrated the separation between the executive branch and the Judicial branch. A breakdown of this principle is a sign of decline.

What is next? Using the Department of Justice to attack political adversaries?
 
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Dutch Oven

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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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His response makes perfect sense.
The switch in what the parties represent - especially concerning race - over the centuries is well known.

He still needs to explain "the loophole" of course.
What he said doesn't make any sense in any event. Just the usual suggestion that the Dems mysteriously found a way to end run the sort of legal system that other - more decent and proper-thinking - Americans would put in place.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Let me explain where you went wrong, as you appear to be challenged.

Judge John Coughenour was appointed by the Reagan administration in 1981 having mostly worked as a law professor at the University of Washington (not exactly a hotbed of conservatism) prior to his appointment. He only practised law for 4 years following his call to the bar. In my experience 19 out of 20 law professors lean left. His private practice was in Seattle. The court he sits on holds hearings in Seattle and Tacoma. He's sitting in one of the most liberal districts in America. He's supported a number of other legal positions posited by the left such as finding a violent predator law to be unconstitutional, and has opposed mandatory minimum sentencing. He's not known for any noteworthy conservative rulings.

Yes, Liberal judges can be found in Seattle. The Dems knew that. Why do you question their wisdom, when they were correct?
His ruling - of course - could simply be the correct ruling on a very simple and obvious legal question rather than an evil plot to subvert America, as you suggest. 😯
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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What he said doesn't make any sense in any event. Just the usual suggestion that the Dems mysteriously found a way to end run the sort of legal system that other - more decent and proper-thinking - Americans would put in place.
Oh, the "loophole" thing is nonsense, I agree.
I was just commenting on the bit about the Democrats in the South at the time.
It was totally irrelevant to anything, but it was a real fact.
I figure I should reward them on the rare cases they appear.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
32,910
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I think we have to agree to disagree on this point.

The American Empire has from it's creation celebrated the separation between the executive branch and the Judicial branch. A breakdown of this principle is a sign of decline.
Just because something is celebrated in myth doesn't mean it was ever real.
Also, a separation of the Executive branch and the Judicial branch has shit all to do with whether or not law is politics.
That just says those two political centers are not aligned and have their own interests.
Just like the Legislative is supposed to as well. But then the whole system was designed as if those would be the power centers struggling and not parties.
A shitty design that fell apart almost instantaneously. But they were making it up as they went and it isn't surprising some of their guesses were wrong.

That said, abandoning even the pretense of partisanship is a sign of decline even more dramatic than abandoning the pretense of being apolitical.
But that's been going on for decades now.

What is next? Using the Department of Justice to attack political adversaries?
That's been going on for years.
Sure, Trump made it worse and is going to make it even worse still this term, but there has been some level of that off and on for ages.
It gets reined in, people do their best to make it hard to do, etc.
Trump is the first president I can think of to try and present doing it as a good thing, though.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Oh, the "loophole" thing is nonsense, I agree.
I was just commenting on the bit about the Democrats in the South at the time.
It was totally irrelevant to anything, but it was a real fact.
I figure I should reward them on the rare cases they appear.
I can't imagine that the post bellum southern dems gave much of a shit about anything other than lynching blacks and re building their plantations in the 1860's.

I find it hard to think that immigration was a live issue for them.
 
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