Two Questions for the RC's of the board about the Pope Emeritus

[Butler1000]

I wil open with this statement. Thread is in no way intended to be an attack on the RCC. I would also request the RCC/general religion haters keep it in check for this one.

So in watching the events unfold(and have too much time on my hands at work) I was left with 2 questions that perhaps someone with more expertise could espouse on.

First is the possible new role of the Pope Emeritus (PE for short). While it would appear this one will retire to solitude what whould happen if that wasn't the case. Could a PE continue to play a role in church business(like a former president turned statesman). His word would carry a lot of weight I would assume. Could he return to being a simple pastor? Is there any precident for this type of situation?

The second question is a bit darker(see top first statement again). If a now retired PE chose to take on a more public role, what would happen if he chose to publicly disagree with his successor on a matter of church doctrine or policy. This fascinates me because if the Pope is God's choice to lead the RCC would would the outcome be on something like this. Imagine if a popular Pope like JPII had spoken out on some matter while the latest Pope was in office!?!

Again this is a genuine inquiry......thanks

 

[blackrock13]

In an attempt to answer your question, yes I do know I'm not RC, since this in basically unknown waters. With little in written rules, I wonder if anyone really knows. A lot depends how ill the PE is and what he suffers from. If it is some form of dementia, I suspect he can really only contribute symbolically, a presence. If something physical like Parkinson's or worse, cancer, he may be ask for guidance for a time by whomever, but have little 'power'. In truth, I think the new administration will simple take control, make their own mark, and he will simple stay in the background and fade.

 

[Carling]

Imagine if a popular Pope like JPII had spoken out on some matter while the latest Pope was in office!?!

he would have said "ermm..ugghhh..erhhh...grumble...(drool) "

 

[TeasePlease]

Good questions and ones that have percolated in the minds of many.

The expectation is that the PE will stay out of the public and live out his years in seclusion. But who knows? What if the Church takes a direction to which he strongly objects? Should he remain silent?

Certainly, in the minds of some, one cannot "resign" from a divine calling. He may not have titular authority, but arguably maintains moral authority.

This is uncharted waters.....

 

[fun-guy]

Don't know what the exact role of PE would be, but the best thing for the RC religion at this point is to distance themselves from Ratzinger as much as possible, he's out to pasture and leave him in peace. Based on the difficult issues over the past several years, this religion needs a major rework and new vision for the future if it wants to gain support of the younger generation, and yes I'm RC.

The religion is out of touch with today's realities.

 

[yeahyeahyeah]

The second question is a bit darker(see top first statement again). If a now retired PE chose to take on a more public role, what would happen if he chose to publicly disagree with his successor on a matter of church doctrine or policy. This fascinates me because if the Pope is God's choice to lead the RCC would would the outcome be on something like this. Imagine if a popular Pope like JPII had spoken out on some matter while the latest Pope was in office!?!

Again this is a genuine inquiry......thanks

And this is a genuine reply: If you have time to wonder about this question, ever wonder why the former Pope has not been arrested and never will be, when in any other environment he would have faced charges?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/o...er-arrest-warrant-in-sex-abuse-scandal-90366/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-pope-resignation-immunity-idUSBRE91E0ZI20130215

"Pope Benedict's decision to live in the Vatican after he resigns will provide him with security and privacy. It will also offer legal protection from any attempt to prosecute him in connection with sexual abuse cases around the world, Church sources and legal experts say.

"His continued presence in the Vatican is necessary, otherwise he might be defenseless. He wouldn't have his immunity, his prerogatives, his security, if he is anywhere else," said one Vatican official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"It is absolutely necessary" that he stays in the Vatican, said the source, adding that Benedict should have a "dignified existence" in his remaining years."

Ahhhh, religion! And hey, if you think I hijaked your thread, I'd call it a proper protest. Too bad Catholics don't do such things on their own! Guess it has something to do with the fog of religion.

 

[Art Mann]

Was the PE a "rogue" pope while in office, spontaneously going public with radical viewpoints contrary to the Vatican establishment?

I don't recollect that being the case.

Safe to assume he'll disappear into the woodwork somewhere, and "solitude" will likely include a few Vatican sentries to ensure he's not bothered by the media and general public . . . or running to them to espouse new contradictory visions of the church's role.

 

[blackrock13]

And this is a genuine reply: If you have time to wonder about this question, ever wonder why the former Pope has not been arrested and never will be, when in any other environment he would have faced charges?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/o...er-arrest-warrant-in-sex-abuse-scandal-90366/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-pope-resignation-immunity-idUSBRE91E0ZI20130215

"Pope Benedict's decision to live in the Vatican after he resigns will provide him with security and privacy. It will also offer legal protection from any attempt to prosecute him in connection with sexual abuse cases around the world, Church sources and legal experts say.

"His continued presence in the Vatican is necessary, otherwise he might be defenseless. He wouldn't have his immunity, his prerogatives, his security, if he is anywhere else," said one Vatican official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"It is absolutely necessary" that he stays in the Vatican, said the source, adding that Benedict should have a "dignified existence" in his remaining years."

Ahhhh, religion! And hey, if you think I hijaked your thread, I'd call it a proper protest. Too bad Catholics don't do such things on their own! Guess it has something to do with the fog of religion.

Way too easy to counter, but I'll leave it be for now.

 

[richaceg]

I will try to answer your question. As a RC...ordinary Catholics don't know dumb shit about what's going on in there actually (or maybe it's just me). I'm not really a church goer but being in a Catholic school all my life...it wasn't even explained (or did I miss it?) Most probably devotees might have some knowledge but being that this is terb. It may be scarce. I did remember climbing on my dads shoulder to get a glimpse of JP2 riding his bulletproof carriage(what's up wid dat?) and honestly he is enlightening...way better than meeting celebrities.

 

[fun-guy]

Was the PE a "rogue" pope while in office, spontaneously going public with radical viewpoints contrary to the Vatican establishment?

Actually the complete opposite, he provided weak leadership to comfort the faith about the sexual scandals, had communication leaks from within, did not engage the youth, inappropriate comments on Muslim/Christian relationships, and many believe he stepped down due to a confidential report that exposed the depth of the sexual escapades of priests around the world. In short, he lost control and did not lead the religion.

 

[blackrock13]

Actually the complete opposite, he provided weak leadership to comfort the faith about the sexual scandals, had communication leaks from within, did not engage the youth, inappropriate comments on Muslim/Christian relationships, and many believe he stepped down due to a confidential report that exposed the depth of the sexual escapades of priests around the world. In short, he lost control and did not lead the religion.

I have a side of me that can't really argue too much against the possibility of this. The future will tell.

 

[Butler1000]

Thanks so far.

The question is also a general one and not just for the particalar circumstances now.

Say to speculate: If a "consevative" pope had retired, and a new pope called for say a Vatican III. Say to change a particarly controversial policy like ordaining women. The old Pope now Emeritus could in theory speak out on this type of thing(may feel he is morally compelled to). I wonder if the Pope staying in office till death may well have been a way to prevent this type of situation. A pope Emeritas with the popularity of a JP II would hold alot of weight on something like this.

 

[blackrock13]

Thanks so far.

The question is also a general one and not just for the particalar circumstances now.

Say to speculate: If a "consevative" pope had retired, and a new pope called for say a Vatican III. Say to change a particarly controversial policy like ordaining women. The old Pope now Emeritus could in theory speak out on this type of thing(may feel he is morally compelled to). I wonder if the Pope staying in office till death may well have been a way to prevent this type of situation. A pope Emeritas with the popularity of a JP II would hold alot of weight on something like this.

Possible, but not probable, especially if the reason PE is leaving is to run away. Only insiders know that The PE is certainly not the holder of JP II's respect.

 

[DanJ]

I did remember climbing on my dads shoulder to get a glimpse of JP2 riding his bulletproof carriage(what's up wid dat?) and honestly he is enlightening...way better than meeting celebrities.

If you were young enough to sit on your dad's shoulders to see him in the popemobile, then him being shot was probably before your time.

As for the original question, I just think that the type of person to rise to that level wouldn't be so individualistic to be that way in retirement. These aren't Republicans and Democrats jockeying for political position and doing whatever to usurp their successor for party gain.

 

[Aardvark154]

As a non-Roman Catholic may I suggest that you look at the situation of retired Primates in the Anglican Communion or of Swedish Lutheran retired Archbishops of Uppsala as a model. One of the most important unofficial rules is that you don't make public statements which would undermine your successor.

 

[mrsCALoki]

I wil open with this statement. Thread is in no way intended to be an attack on the RCC. I would also request the RCC/general religion haters keep it in check for this one.

So in watching the events unfold(and have too much time on my hands at work) I was left with 2 questions that perhaps someone with more expertise could espouse on.

First is the possible new role of the Pope Emeritus (PE for short). While it would appear this one will retire to solitude what whould happen if that wasn't the case. Could a PE continue to play a role in church business(like a former president turned statesman). His word would carry a lot of weight I would assume. Could he return to being a simple pastor? Is there any precident for this type of situation?

The second question is a bit darker(see top first statement again). If a now retired PE chose to take on a more public role, what would happen if he chose to publicly disagree with his successor on a matter of church doctrine or policy. This fascinates me because if the Pope is God's choice to lead the RCC would would the outcome be on something like this. Imagine if a popular Pope like JPII had spoken out on some matter while the latest Pope was in office!?!

Again this is a genuine inquiry......thanks

Nobody knows. The last pope to resign was Gregory XII in 1415. There were 3 "official" popes that year fighting for power. 2 got thrown out and Gregory resigned voluntarily.

So pretty much no one can look to history for guidance.

 

[blackrock13]

As a non-Roman Catholic may I suggest that you look at the situation of retired Primates in the Anglican Communion or of Swedish Lutheran retired Archbishops of Uppsala as a model. One of the most important unofficial rules is that you don't make public statements which would undermine your successor.

So basically, no laws say you can't, but it would be bad form.

 

[Aardvark154]

So basically, no laws say you can't, but it would be bad form.

Massively bad form. They would also have to be amazingly shallow people to have spent years building up their diocese/province/church and then tear it down by getting into a pubic "pissing contest" with their successor.

 

[Rockslinger]

JP2 riding his bulletproof carriage(what's up wid dat?)

JP 23 was shot by Mehmet Ali Mgca (is he Muslim?) and critically wounded on May 13, 1981, hence the bulletproof carriage. Lots of nut cases with guns in the world.

 

[fmahovalich]

For the Catholics..and non Catholics..it needs to be re-iterated....this Pope will not change to allow women priests, will not support gay marriage. As for doctrine....there will be very little change.

Why? Because the church has deep, old roots.dogma..that is adhered to.

If YOUR beliefs are not in line...you are free to leave and find a church that suits your beliefs.

Asking a Church to change, just because you have lost interest, is not going to happen. I suspect many changes could occur in Catholic and other Churches, and the complainers would still not start attending Church.

For the angry ones, who believe the CHURCH should change, I ask two questions.

1) why have you not found another, more amenable church to worship in?
2) The Anglicans allow women ministers....The United Church marries gays....others support divorce.....why then have their numbers continued to decline as well? These are the churches that DID CHANGE, however have continued to decline.