TTC headed for a strike?
- Thread starter The Bandit
- Start date
The TTC loses money year after year.....In any other business there would be salary cuts and out sourcing....what makes these guys special?
The TTC should be privatized and could become a source of revenue for the city rather than a leach on our hard earned tax dollars.
The TTC should be privatized and could become a source of revenue for the city rather than a leach on our hard earned tax dollars.
It's true. The city has increased garbage pickup for free, increased snow removal, decreased property taxes and keeps opening up new hockey rinks for longer and longer for no charge for their use as the province increases their payments to the city. They're only crying poor even though they aren't really. Those lying bastards.Keebler Elf said:
Keebler Elf said:Which is less than inflation and less than the average increase in the last published MOL highlights for November 2007: http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/lr/highlights/cbh2007-11_1.html
Note that 2% is even less than the private sector increase. So much for being greedy union bastards...
Sparky, the report refers to the single month of November 2007. It even states that the increases from October's settlements were averaging 1.5% in the private sector.
Don't take one month's result and make it a blanket statement.
as someone who takes the TTC daily, I'm dreading a strike as much as anyone. That said, this thread is a re-hash... by the same TTC haters it seems as before. Carguy34.... your name makes me assume you are a "car guy" and probably don't take transit too much. So you probably don't see the altercations the drivers have to deal with. The drivers sign on to be drivers.... not punching bags or spittoons or verbal abuse victims yet your stance is suck it up or get another job? Someone at your workplace starts horking loogies on you, you gonna agree with someone telling you to ignore it and keep doing your work? Probably not.
Keeblers example of management lowballing them is true of pretty much all contract negotiations. Think management is going to crunch thier numbers and offer the highest possible raise right off the bat? Not likely, they offer a lower amount, union asks for a higher amount and the haggling begins is a more likely scenario.
Corey, you started a thread before about how the drivers are blowing out of proportion how much the drivers suffer from the stress of thier job. Why do you dismiss thier suffering like they were a bunch of whiners when the last thread you started had examples of drivers being blinded on the job. I don't think they suffer like soldiers but I do think they have very unpleasant and stressful situations happen very often.... and if you don't think that having these incidents happen over and over with management not backing you up don't play a role in a driver/ticket taker/front line worker becoming unpleasant, you should imagine yourself in thier shoes. I wish I made $26/ hour too.... but not if it means getting spit on or yelled at or verbally abused. I'll survive with less money but less stress.
P.S. the figure of a million per employee come from a report mentioned in this article, it wasn't the TTC employees pulling that number out of thin air.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080311.TTC11/TPStory/TPNational/Ontario/
Keeblers example of management lowballing them is true of pretty much all contract negotiations. Think management is going to crunch thier numbers and offer the highest possible raise right off the bat? Not likely, they offer a lower amount, union asks for a higher amount and the haggling begins is a more likely scenario.
Corey, you started a thread before about how the drivers are blowing out of proportion how much the drivers suffer from the stress of thier job. Why do you dismiss thier suffering like they were a bunch of whiners when the last thread you started had examples of drivers being blinded on the job. I don't think they suffer like soldiers but I do think they have very unpleasant and stressful situations happen very often.... and if you don't think that having these incidents happen over and over with management not backing you up don't play a role in a driver/ticket taker/front line worker becoming unpleasant, you should imagine yourself in thier shoes. I wish I made $26/ hour too.... but not if it means getting spit on or yelled at or verbally abused. I'll survive with less money but less stress.
P.S. the figure of a million per employee come from a report mentioned in this article, it wasn't the TTC employees pulling that number out of thin air.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080311.TTC11/TPStory/TPNational/Ontario/
I'm so sick of unions. Another group of people that whine about their working conditions. REALITY CHECK: You are making almost $30/hour for unskilled labor.
Um, perhaps you should have stayed in school? I'm sure there are plenty of people working for lots less at unskilled jobs that would kill to have your perceived problems!
While I realize there is more to a job than salary and benefits and fully support increased safety for drivers, it really is bullshit that these people can strike every time they do not get there way. Give your collectives heads a shake people - in the "non-unionized real world", unskilled labor gets 2-3% increases a year, after you jump through hoops to prove your worth to the almighty corporation.
I write this because I believe the drivers are wrong. I bailed on the TTC long ago due to unacceptable service levels and I will never go back. The main impact of a strike on me will be the increased number of drivers on GTA roads.
Um, perhaps you should have stayed in school? I'm sure there are plenty of people working for lots less at unskilled jobs that would kill to have your perceived problems!
While I realize there is more to a job than salary and benefits and fully support increased safety for drivers, it really is bullshit that these people can strike every time they do not get there way. Give your collectives heads a shake people - in the "non-unionized real world", unskilled labor gets 2-3% increases a year, after you jump through hoops to prove your worth to the almighty corporation.
I write this because I believe the drivers are wrong. I bailed on the TTC long ago due to unacceptable service levels and I will never go back. The main impact of a strike on me will be the increased number of drivers on GTA roads.
I'm a driver. I never take the TTC. The odd time I take the GO train to an event downtown because I hate getting raped on the parking.
I drive from Durham region to the northwest part of Scarborough to work. There are two of us in my car
Everytime there's a strike, I find myself getting to work 10-15 minutes faster than usual.
My conclusion? There's no f**king buses on the road. And less cars. People carpool to work. I rarely see any car with less than 2 passengers in it, and most are full (4 passengers). I've even seen cars picking up pedestrians with signs stating their destinations. I've even picked up a few myself (mind you, it was a guy in a suit, not some banger with a do-rag and baggy pants).
I don't believe that crap about every TTC bus taking 50 cars off the road. If there was a lengthy strike, people would learn to carpool, and in the end, I think it would be better for the enviorment than those big, stinky, traffic-clogging buses.
I do agree that the drivers need to be protected from the nutters. AND.... get lots of support if they are injured. They should be paid (and not by WSIB) at full compensation if they're hurt on the job because of a physical attack by a passenger.
I drive from Durham region to the northwest part of Scarborough to work. There are two of us in my car
Everytime there's a strike, I find myself getting to work 10-15 minutes faster than usual.
My conclusion? There's no f**king buses on the road. And less cars. People carpool to work. I rarely see any car with less than 2 passengers in it, and most are full (4 passengers). I've even seen cars picking up pedestrians with signs stating their destinations. I've even picked up a few myself (mind you, it was a guy in a suit, not some banger with a do-rag and baggy pants).
I don't believe that crap about every TTC bus taking 50 cars off the road. If there was a lengthy strike, people would learn to carpool, and in the end, I think it would be better for the enviorment than those big, stinky, traffic-clogging buses.
I do agree that the drivers need to be protected from the nutters. AND.... get lots of support if they are injured. They should be paid (and not by WSIB) at full compensation if they're hurt on the job because of a physical attack by a passenger.
The Cunning Linguist said:
That's probably true in the burbs. Downtown I think it might be a little different. The Queen streetcar apparently services 40,000 people per hour in peak periods. The King streetcar handles 50,000 in the same peak periods.
The times we've had TTC strikes, there have been way more cars in the downtown core.
People generally deserve to have a periodic raise in salary - I have no issue with that. But I think what's been offered is fair particularly given the job tasks. I don't have a problem with a bus driver earning a decent amount, but I'm surprised that ticket collectors are in the same earning range. That's something the TTC needs to sort out for themselves. Paying someone that much to sit in a booth ... well, that's just plain silly.
But another issue is building infrastructure / bus lines where we really don't need them. The TTC needs to service a very wide geographic area, but they also need to concentrate service where it's needed (King and Queen lines for example).
They don't have a cushy government subsidy and arguably they should have more subsidy than they do, but they also need to become more efficient.
Love the black dude being promoted all over the news - case in point about staying in school. Guy obviously has no clue how lucky he is to be making what he does. He so well spoken ;-)
P.S. As a side topic, the pricks who magically raise their daily parking prices from anywhere from 14-20 dollars a day to $30 and beyond should be made to learn how to tread water with cement boots in 6 feet of water in Lake Ontario.
Or taken behind their shelter to meet their otherwise loyal customers one by one
P.S. As a side topic, the pricks who magically raise their daily parking prices from anywhere from 14-20 dollars a day to $30 and beyond should be made to learn how to tread water with cement boots in 6 feet of water in Lake Ontario.
Or taken behind their shelter to meet their otherwise loyal customers one by one
Boo fucking hoo.
I agree it goes both ways, but what value do you as an employee provide to your company?
If you are so frigging valuable and above being in the position you are in, start your own business!
I agree it goes both ways, but what value do you as an employee provide to your company?
If you are so frigging valuable and above being in the position you are in, start your own business!
The TTC Sucks
In every other major city that I've visited, the ticket-taking system was automated. These jobs were done by machines. The machines didn't give people attitude like the TTC union employees do every time somebody asks them to move their fat arm far enough to sell us some tokens. Get rid of this job function entirely.
carguy34 said:
In every other major city that I've visited, the ticket-taking system was automated. These jobs were done by machines. The machines didn't give people attitude like the TTC union employees do every time somebody asks them to move their fat arm far enough to sell us some tokens. Get rid of this job function entirely.
the last TTC strike of any duration was late 1980's or early 1990's and lasted about 10 days if memory serves. The only fortunate thing was that it occurred in summer. Then "Metro", now GTA, was absolute gridlock, but many people walked, bladed, bicycled. There was another "work-to-rule" action in the early 1990's where TTC workers refused to wear uniform, humourously resulting in TTC drivers in Bermuda shorts and tshirts! I can not remember any other actual strike stoppage of service since then, making it about 15 years.
The much laughed at $26 per hour is obviously an average, as such it is misleading. Also, in all instances like this, for dramatic affect, this figure quoted includes cash equivalent of all benefits, debt, etc., added up to an unrealistic "wage" figure. The same is always done for auto workers where ridiculous amounts of $80 per hour are quoted.
It has become painfully obvious regarding the TTC that it suffers from gross localism, yet actually services regionally. Funding models support and perpetuate this, and are real causes of declining service and rising charges. "Bad attitude" has no real affect, except maybe for 'sensitive' people!
The much laughed at $26 per hour is obviously an average, as such it is misleading. Also, in all instances like this, for dramatic affect, this figure quoted includes cash equivalent of all benefits, debt, etc., added up to an unrealistic "wage" figure. The same is always done for auto workers where ridiculous amounts of $80 per hour are quoted.
It has become painfully obvious regarding the TTC that it suffers from gross localism, yet actually services regionally. Funding models support and perpetuate this, and are real causes of declining service and rising charges. "Bad attitude" has no real affect, except maybe for 'sensitive' people!
By the way -add to that time and a half or time and a quarter for evening and weekend shifts. I have it on good authority that it is possible, with OT to make over 100k as a driver for the TTC. There was a driver on that list of published goverment employees making over 100k.
Keebler Elf said:
I give it 3 or 4 days before back to work legislation. Too much snow around to allow for many private vehicles on the road.
I am one of those collectors you all seem to hate. How am I going to hobby if you don't give me what we want?
As for the contract being voted down the ttc wanted to take benifets away and give us 2% each year over 4 years. So we pay for are raises with our benifets? hmm does not seem to fair, considering everyone else gets raises without having to loose benifets.
oh well were just fat lazy people that are responibe for helping everyone get to the place they want safely.
I also agree we have alot of older drivers and collectors that do not belong in their job and don't have a clue how good they have it yet treat there customers like crap day in and day out.
As for the contract being voted down the ttc wanted to take benifets away and give us 2% each year over 4 years. So we pay for are raises with our benifets? hmm does not seem to fair, considering everyone else gets raises without having to loose benifets.
oh well were just fat lazy people that are responibe for helping everyone get to the place they want safely.
I also agree we have alot of older drivers and collectors that do not belong in their job and don't have a clue how good they have it yet treat there customers like crap day in and day out.
The Cunning Linguist said:
You are a 905'er.
Your impression of Toronto is based sitting in your living room in the wastelands of suburbia with miles and miles of endless green fencing and North American SUV's in every driveway.
Some of us would rather die than live that kind of lifestyle.
This is a very large urban city that needs effective transit in order to move people around the city. There are many people who take the TTC BECAUSE THEY DON'T OWN A CAR. I'm not too sure how you think people without a car are supposed to car pool.
26 bucks an hour translates to about 55 grand a year based on a 40 hour work week.
I don't think that's over the top.
Benefits and such are typically in the 30 percent range I would imagine. Maybe 35 at the max. I work in the private sector and I know that our payroll burden is about 30 percent as well.
I would never want to be a bus driver. No way. Too many assholes getting on your bus, too much bullshit in traffic. There are better ways to make a living.
I don't think that's over the top.
Benefits and such are typically in the 30 percent range I would imagine. Maybe 35 at the max. I work in the private sector and I know that our payroll burden is about 30 percent as well.
I would never want to be a bus driver. No way. Too many assholes getting on your bus, too much bullshit in traffic. There are better ways to make a living.
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