NATO were the primary invaders. You cannot change history per your preferences.NATO was just a subset of countries involved, you blame them because those countries plus a pile of others decided to act.
It wasn't NATO.
NATO were the primary invaders. You cannot change history per your preferences.NATO was just a subset of countries involved, you blame them because those countries plus a pile of others decided to act.
It wasn't NATO.
We didn’t. I don’t know a liberal that wants a war in Ukraine. That does not mean you simply give Ukraine to Putin. Again… Ukraine is not the final goal. Not in a long shot.I fucking hate Trump. And a little bit of hyperbole there talking about WW3 and America Last Globalists
But he is right about the neo-cons, warmongers and the military industrial complex.
The funny thing is, what he is saying, is something liberals in 2010 were saying. Conservatives at that time were all for war and would go "Support the troops!". Where did this get lost from the liberal narrative and when did liberals start supporting corporations, war etc?
Ukraine is not for us to give or take. It is not for Putin to give or take. It is for no one to meddle in. From our end we should not meddle and if we had never meddled, we wouldn't be where we are today.We didn’t. I don’t know a liberal that wants a war in Ukraine. That does not mean you simply give Ukraine to Putin. Again… Ukraine is not the final goal. Not in a long shot.
NATO has not set foot in Russia. NATO has not even threatened to set foot in Russia.NATO were the primary invaders. You cannot change history per your preferences.
We were talking about Afghanistan.NATO has not set foot in Russia. NATO has not even threatened to set foot in Russia.
My bad…. I’m still a few pages back on this thread.We were talking about Afghanistan.
NATO members, not NATO.NATO were the primary invaders. You cannot change history per your preferences.
When NATO acts usually its a few countries, not every single member.NATO members, not NATO.
They aren't the same things.
You're changing your terms to suit your argument.When NATO acts usually its a few countries, not every single member.
You're missing the important part in what you quoted.I hear this over and over and repeating it does not make it any more sensible. How is NATO provocative.
But also any defensive alliance is an 'existential threat' to someone else.You're missing the important part in what you quoted.
" A war 20000 miles away has nothing to do with us. "
That's the whole position.
All the talk about NATO is smokescreen.
krealtarron doesn't think the US or Canada should be involved in anything outside of its borders.
If Europe recreated the exact same deal as NATO as a European Defensive Alliance, that would be fine, because the important part is that "we don't get involved because it has nothing to do with us".
But also any defensive alliance is an 'existential threat' to someone else.
In a globalized world… the dominoes stay up or fall down for everyone.You're missing the important part in what you quoted.
" A war 20000 miles away has nothing to do with us. "
That's the whole position.
All the talk about NATO is smokescreen.
krealtarron doesn't think the US or Canada should be involved in anything outside of its borders.
If Europe recreated the exact same deal as NATO as a European Defensive Alliance, that would be fine, because the important part is that "we don't get involved because it has nothing to do with us".
Sure, that's the counter argument.In a globalized world… the dominoes stay up or fall down for everyone.
In order for Russia to feel safe, we have to give them land masses with a combined population of nearly 200 million people. Russia only has 146 million, (and I expect that number to drop by 2 million by years end… a million by war, and a million by fleeing the draft). It is crazy to think that Russia feels this is appropriate.Sure, that's the counter argument.
But "it is far away and not our problem" is a defensible foreign policy position. It is also one that has counter arguments to it based on the same level of raw practicality.
I guess that makes it less fun.
Yeah, winning an election can divide the country if the loser is a whiny, sore loser who foments insurrection.
Funny! That's what some of you asked at the beginning of the Ukrainian war....when Putin took over Crimea. Remember, all those years ago? You can draw a direct line from there to here. And what did I say? Comple embargo on Russia and anyone who would deal with them. And what did most say, back them? Impossible. The Obama's slap on the wrist is enough. After Russian invasion of a country that America agreed to its territorial integrity. You want to break up Russian/Chinese alliance? Tell China that the west will close it's borders to the Chinese goods and reestablish the Republic of China on the international scene. I guarantee you, Xi will RUN to his jet to be out of Moscow, asap. But, Biden is weak, stupid and paid off by China and the Western Europe is helpless without leaders from Washington.Yeah, winning an election can divide the country if the loser is a whiny, sore loser who foments insurrection.
What do you think sleepy Joe should do?
Sign an Executive Order giving any former, present or future politician, especially President's, absolute immunity from criminal and civil law?
Bomb The Kremlin if Xi doesn't drink the tea?
Tell the rest of the free, democratic world that in the interests of world peace that the USA is abandoning Ukraine to Russia? That oughta teach the Chinese, eh, jc?
What do you suggest?
Doesn’t matter. Both are in massive population decline. Both rely on the West for their success.
Funny! That's what some of you asked at the beginning of the Ukrainian war....when Putin took over Crimea. Remember, all those years ago? You can draw a direct line from there to here. And what did I say? Comple embargo on Russia and anyone who would deal with them. And what did most say, back them? Impossible. The Obama's slap on the wrist is enough. After Russian invasion of a country that America agreed to its territorial integrity. You want to break up Russian/Chinese alliance? Tell China that the west will close it's borders to the Chinese goods and reestablish the Republic of China on the international scene. I guarantee you, Xi will RUN to his jet to be out of Moscow, asap. But, Biden is weak, stupid and paid off by China and the Western Europe is helpless without leaders from Washington.