NATO were the primary invaders. You cannot change history per your preferences.
Trump against war
- Thread starter danmand
- Start date
We didn’t. I don’t know a liberal that wants a war in Ukraine. That does not mean you simply give Ukraine to Putin. Again… Ukraine is not the final goal. Not in a long shot.I fucking hate Trump. And a little bit of hyperbole there talking about WW3 and America Last Globalists
But he is right about the neo-cons, warmongers and the military industrial complex.
The funny thing is, what he is saying, is something liberals in 2010 were saying. Conservatives at that time were all for war and would go "Support the troops!". Where did this get lost from the liberal narrative and when did liberals start supporting corporations, war etc?
Ukraine is not for us to give or take. It is not for Putin to give or take. It is for no one to meddle in. From our end we should not meddle and if we had never meddled, we wouldn't be where we are today.
NATO has not set foot in Russia. NATO has not even threatened to set foot in Russia.
You're missing the important part in what you quoted.
" A war 20000 miles away has nothing to do with us. "
That's the whole position.
All the talk about NATO is smokescreen.
krealtarron doesn't think the US or Canada should be involved in anything outside of its borders.
If Europe recreated the exact same deal as NATO as a European Defensive Alliance, that would be fine, because the important part is that "we don't get involved because it has nothing to do with us".
But also any defensive alliance is an 'existential threat' to someone else whose delusional ego wants to expand their country's borders.
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In a globalized world… the dominoes stay up or fall down for everyone.
It takes 13 countries to produce different components of high end semi-conductors, and if just one them goes off line… the whole thing stops. No new cars in the dealership, and all of sudden a used car with 250,000 kms is supposedly worth $18,000.
The energy and grain shortages this war will produce will cause famine. China is actually in a tricky spot as they are the worlds biggest importer of food and energy. I just posted a video where they may not be sharing phosphorus (fertilizer) this year, as they need it for Rice… the worlds most phosphorus intensive crop. We had reserves last year. Not this year.
People have no idea what’s coming down the pipe… And when it hits them in the face, Pierre Polliveive will have a YouTube video called “Justinflation” to feed the herd…. Talking about money printing, and foreign spending as the culprits. It’s painful.
Sure, that's the counter argument.
But "it is far away and not our problem" is a defensible foreign policy position. It is also one that has counter arguments to it based on the same level of raw practicality.
I guess that makes it less fun.
In order for Russia to feel safe, we have to give them land masses with a combined population of nearly 200 million people. Russia only has 146 million, (and I expect that number to drop by 2 million by years end… a million by war, and a million by fleeing the draft). It is crazy to think that Russia feels this is appropriate.
Now… this is the part that keeps me up at night. The avg Canadian is feeling the pinch at the grocery store. It hurts. How does it feel at the national level? Countries like Japan, Britain, Germany, China and Russia are in massive population declines. (When your population grows, more things are bought and houses and offices are being built). Energy and Capitol are getting rather expensive. Which countries are capable of going down swinging? I am serious. George Friedman (geo-politics guy) once opened a speech at a University with the line…. ”Has there ever been a century where there has not been a massive global war in the known world? Do you think this one will be any different?” He was right.
Yeah, winning an election can divide the country if the loser is a whiny, sore loser who foments insurrection.
What do you think sleepy Joe should do?
Sign an Executive Order giving any former, present or future politician, especially President's, absolute immunity from criminal and civil law?
Bomb The Kremlin if Xi doesn't drink the tea?
Tell the rest of the free, democratic world that in the interests of world peace that the USA is abandoning Ukraine to Russia? That oughta teach the Chinese, eh, jc?
What do you suggest?
Funny! That's what some of you asked at the beginning of the Ukrainian war....when Putin took over Crimea. Remember, all those years ago? You can draw a direct line from there to here. And what did I say? Comple embargo on Russia and anyone who would deal with them. And what did most say, back them? Impossible. The Obama's slap on the wrist is enough. After Russian invasion of a country that America agreed to its territorial integrity. You want to break up Russian/Chinese alliance? Tell China that the west will close it's borders to the Chinese goods and reestablish the Republic of China on the international scene. I guarantee you, Xi will RUN to his jet to be out of Moscow, asap. But, Biden is weak, stupid and paid off by China and the Western Europe is helpless without leaders from Washington.Doesn’t matter. Both are in massive population decline. Both rely on the West for their success.
Full disclosure: I had a lot of other things on my mind back then and -to my shame- I paid little, if any attention to it back then. I barely recalled the airliner being shot down then either.
I am confident that had I been paying attention back then, I would have absolutely supported on a complete embargo as you describe above.
And I agree that Biden should say the same to China. You supply any war-related materials to Russia and -say- all Chinese govt associated enterprises in the USA will be immediately seized. And furthermore, that the Type- Certificates of US built aircraft operated under Chinese registry will be revoked along with a global embargo of any and all US certified or manufactured aircraft parts.
It is little known that the Chinese govt has been gobbling up small US aircraft manufacturers for many years.
The Chinese government pretty much owns half of the US general aviation aircraft manufacturing industry. And not because it is profitable. It was a pure technology acquisition play.
