Yeah, I agree with that. I would prefer a long-term plan properly funded. I'm not expecting that we'll get it with the current Mayor, unless perhaps Stintz simply takes over somehow. Given a bit more leeway she might pull something like that off.
transit
- Thread starter doggee_01
- Start date
If you want subways move to Montreal, Boston, New York, Hong Kong.....
What we need is mass transit to be built and completed quickly and economically.
One of the aims is to get people out of their cars and into transit to reduce traffic congestion so the argument against LRT put forward that it inconveniences motorists is null.
The major problem seems to be that 905ers have no choice but to drive into Toronto with their cars as their own public transit systems are not efficient at getting them to a point of entry to the Toronto system.
Nor is their sufficient parking for them to drive to these points of entry, park their cars and transition to public transit. Many currently have to "steal" parking at places like Yorkdale Mall.
The CP rails cover the GTA well but GO transit is limited and costs a bit more.
A nice idea would be for the GTA municipalities to come together to take over the GO operations within the GTA and manage and fund it properly.
Why not try employing some of the newer Electric/Hybrid trains that would run regular schedules and move people from the 905 more efficiently into Toronto without multiple transfers and other time wasters and cost increasers.
What we need is mass transit to be built and completed quickly and economically.
One of the aims is to get people out of their cars and into transit to reduce traffic congestion so the argument against LRT put forward that it inconveniences motorists is null.
The major problem seems to be that 905ers have no choice but to drive into Toronto with their cars as their own public transit systems are not efficient at getting them to a point of entry to the Toronto system.
Nor is their sufficient parking for them to drive to these points of entry, park their cars and transition to public transit. Many currently have to "steal" parking at places like Yorkdale Mall.
The CP rails cover the GTA well but GO transit is limited and costs a bit more.
A nice idea would be for the GTA municipalities to come together to take over the GO operations within the GTA and manage and fund it properly.
Why not try employing some of the newer Electric/Hybrid trains that would run regular schedules and move people from the 905 more efficiently into Toronto without multiple transfers and other time wasters and cost increasers.
Two things.
One
Even LRT is 20 to 30 years from completion!
Two
Stintz now pushes the subway as a priority with NO MONEY!
And we heard Ford had no plan!
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...next-priority-project-ttc-chair-karen-stintz/
One
Even LRT is 20 to 30 years from completion!
Two
Stintz now pushes the subway as a priority with NO MONEY!
And we heard Ford had no plan!
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...next-priority-project-ttc-chair-karen-stintz/
2 more things: Why are you deliberately misrepresenting the content of the article in your link? There is not enough population to warrant an extension of the Sheppard subway line and a Finch subway line, nor will there be in the forceseeable future. There are already enough people using the subway in the city to support a downtown relief line. If it existed right now it would be used by tens or hundreds of thousands of people every day.
Ford had a a plan but it was an impractical plan and he was unable to come up with the funding for it. Is this really too hard for you to grasp?
Would you street car proponents just explain one thing? What is the fascination with the street car? You think is it actually a good system?
Secondly, did you hear the news about Mississauga Mayor Hurrican Hazel publicly stating the GTA needs infrastructure built, specifically she means mass transit, and she wants to speak with the Priemer to make a plan, and create a new tax to pay for it. $50 billion is the figure the news bantered out.
Interesting that it was never posted here.
How much of that dough, if the plan moves forward, will wind up building Toronto subways?
It will happen, unless Toronto builds more street car lines!
Does anyone think Hurricane Hazel wants street cars in Mississauga?
These people need to think out of the box, rid themselves of this north/south grid mentaility. We need some lines going diagonal.Interesting comparison
Nobody has proposed streetcars, so I have no idea what you are talking about. The two proposals that were debated were subways versus LRT's.
As for which system is better, no system is better in every situation. Some cases are better served by subways, others by LRT's, others by busses, and still others are better served by taxis. It really depends on the volume of people you need to move on that particular line. If you are trying to move 100 people per hour it really makes no sense to build a subway or even an LRT. The volume of people who would use a downtown relief line would justify construction of a subway.
McCallion's had 30 years to develop public transit plans and funding. Did she just wake up from a coma?
What Hazel actually proposed was to use a vehicle tax as a start-off to funding transit and ending dependence on cars alone. A tax like the one our Mayor did away with, before screwing up his subway dream because he had no way to pay for it.
And for those who just woke from their comas, thirty years ago Mississauga was so new it could barely afford a few busses to run on the roads it couldn't build fast enough. But Hazel's been pushing transit for quite some time now, which guarantees she won't get coverage in any media where they put the car ads. Gotta widen your info intake.
It is my uderstanding they will widen eglinton so no loss of lanes and the LRT will be much faster than Bus and the St Clair LRT because there will be less stops per mile
Unfair to state all LRT lines will be another St Clair as St Clair went through a neighbourhood with lots of schools and shops and rec centres and parks etc and the traffic has diverted to other streets and property values are rising
But it does seem to me if you want less traffic how will an LRT accomplish this ?? Will there be huge parking lots at the end of the line for commuters ?? Are the lines supposed to connect with other municipal lines so the car stays home??
Unfair to state all LRT lines will be another St Clair as St Clair went through a neighbourhood with lots of schools and shops and rec centres and parks etc and the traffic has diverted to other streets and property values are rising
But it does seem to me if you want less traffic how will an LRT accomplish this ?? Will there be huge parking lots at the end of the line for commuters ?? Are the lines supposed to connect with other municipal lines so the car stays home??
Underground vs above ground is not a difference, though, because both subways and LRT can be above ground or underground. The Eglinton LRT will be underground along the portions of Eglinton where traffic congestion is a concern. The choice of a light or heavy train is independent of the choice of putting it above or below ground.
What this picture doesn't show is how many of those routes have now become more congested wherever the LR is not underground.
For those of us who drive those routes every day. Eglington in Scarbourough, Sheppard east, Finch west and east...etc. Those routes are full now, with no space for lane reductions in order to make room for trollys. LRTs are trollys...they are useless for large cities and take up too much room. Plus those "630,000 Torontonians" are currently served by busses, so their numbers don't mean what they are trying to convey.
The only reason that the Eglington LRT is going through is because Stintz wont have to deal with her downtown constituents complaints... guess what the LRT will run under ground there. This is a downtown vs borough issue. The boroughs get screwed and the downtowners in Toronto get their utopia.
LRTs are usually put into service to placate those who push political agendas. I have travelled on many LRTs around the world. Many of the cities that have them, also have fantastic metro systems. Barcelona, Paris,...etc. In those cities I have seen LRTs used in low volume districts that can't justify a subway. Similarly in cities like Dallas, Nice, Amsterdam they use LRTs as a poor mans subway system. Most of the time I saw them empty.
The Sheppard line is a perfect example of how development will follow a subway line. Problem is that the left on council see themselves as the great savior from the nasty car...rather than visionaries who build for the future.
Now there is chat about the Down town relief line...just watch it get built. But wait, there's no money? The downtowners always get their way.
Trust me, Toronto is not a world class city (whatever that means) and never will be by building LRTs.
The only reason that the Eglington LRT is going through is because Stintz wont have to deal with her downtown constituents complaints... guess what the LRT will run under ground there. This is a downtown vs borough issue. The boroughs get screwed and the downtowners in Toronto get their utopia.
LRTs are usually put into service to placate those who push political agendas. I have travelled on many LRTs around the world. Many of the cities that have them, also have fantastic metro systems. Barcelona, Paris,...etc. In those cities I have seen LRTs used in low volume districts that can't justify a subway. Similarly in cities like Dallas, Nice, Amsterdam they use LRTs as a poor mans subway system. Most of the time I saw them empty.
The Sheppard line is a perfect example of how development will follow a subway line. Problem is that the left on council see themselves as the great savior from the nasty car...rather than visionaries who build for the future.
Now there is chat about the Down town relief line...just watch it get built. But wait, there's no money? The downtowners always get their way.
Trust me, Toronto is not a world class city (whatever that means) and never will be by building LRTs.
Once the LRT is in place you should take that instead of driving. Problem solved. There may be a few people who won't be able to drive for various reasons but since the numbers of drivers will be reduced the roads will become less congested.
LRT's are not trollies, you plainly don't have the least foggiest clue what you are talking about, and that gross error in your understanding calls into question the relevance of everything else you wrote.
What a load of hogwash. In fact, people who live in downtown areas don't need any of these lines, subway or LRT. ALL of these lines are for people who live in burroughs. Even expansions of subways into downtown via a Downtown Relief Line is meant for people who live in burroughs, to get them to work and back. People who live downtown are already downtown and don't need a subway to get them there.
Once again, you don't even have the slightest clue what you are talking about.
Well i guess if you say it it must be...lol. If you think there will be less cars on the road by putting in a trolly line...you clearly have not driven along Queen. You people will say whatever you have to with no proof whatsoever.
LRTs are glorified trollies...if you don't get the sarcasm, then you take yourself way too seriously...idiot.
As for the downtown argument...my point is, downtown people have the luxury of subways out of sight underground weather they use them or not stupid.
LRTs are glorified trollies...if you don't get the sarcasm, then you take yourself way too seriously...idiot.
As for the downtown argument...my point is, downtown people have the luxury of subways out of sight underground weather they use them or not stupid.
Of course downtown gets better service that is were the people are
It is pure economics
Traffic downtown and traffic in Scarborough are two different animals and will respond differently to an LRT
LRTs are not glorified trolleys or even street cars as they are twice as fast and there is no waiting time as they do not get bunched up because no cars are allowed on the tracks which is why they are raised
They tried non raised tracks but cars jump on and then there is an accident and that is no more efficient than buses
LRT is a glorified trolley?? Wow.. Did you get that out of the "Rob Ford Guide To Not Thinking For Yourself"? Try a different catch phrase next time...
Here's something I'm sure you'll dismiss:
EGLINTON AND FINCH LRVS
Speed: Averages 22 km/h in its own lane, or 30-32 km/h in a tunnel
Capacity: 280 passengers per car. Depending on demand, up to three will be linked together, for a total of 840 passengers per train.
At peak times, the Eglinton LRV system could carry 19,560 passengers per hour, a volume not expected for decades (only 12,000 people per hour are expected to ride it by 2031).
Cost: $85 million per km for surface routes; $325 million for underground, including cost of vehicles.
Vehicle: Each car is 2.65 metres wide, 31 metres long. Total length for a three-car set: more than 90 metres. They will have eight doors (four per side). The trains are doubled-ended: they won’t turn, so they don’t need a track loop at the end.
SUBWAYS
Speed: Average 32 km/h
Capacity: 1,100 passengers per train; 30,000 passengers per hour at peak frequency
Cost: Between $250 million and $300 million per kilometre, for construction only
Vehicle: Six-car train sets, except on the Sheppard line where only four cars are used because ridership is lower. The Toronto Rockets, the TTC’s new trains in service on the Yonge-University-Spadina line, are all six-car sets. They are “open gangway,” which allows passengers to move freely from one end of the train to the other.
Distance between stops: It depends, says TTC spokesperson Brad Ross — downtown stops are closer together. The distance between St. Andrew station and Union, for example, is about 750 metres, while St. Clair to Davisville station is about 1.3 kilometres.
Power supply: Third rail, 600 V
LRT's are nothing like trolly lines, that's just retarded and implies you don't really comprehend the issue. You just used Queen as an example, which doesn't even have an LRT on it--so again, really, you're just embarrassing yourself. Come back when you are better informed so you don't continue to humiliate yourself through these demonstrations of ignorance.
"Whether they use them or not" -- well gee, if they're being used mostly by suburban people, maybe they are for suburban people. Duh
Oh, and downtown has a higher density of streetcars and light rail on the road than anywhere else in the city so if your point is that they're off the streets downtown, you are just wrong: Spadina, College/Carlton, King, Queen, Dundas, Front, St. Clair if you still consider that downtown.
