TPS officer killed
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Doug "Like Minded" "Hanging Judge" Ford - "This is an outrage! Hang Him. Hang Him high!"
Long Done Dong John Tory - "What due process? Cop killers don't deserve due to process!"
And well more than half of TERB all spewed out the same garbage.
If they apply s. 231(5) of the Criminal Code of Canada in Possum Trot, yep.
Post #61 in this thread. Go read it.
Like the rest of us, I don't know the facts of this interaction and definitely sympathize with the late Constable Jeff Northrup and his family and his partner.
But I also can empathize with the accused. Imagine being quickly approached by two masked old-clothesmen (different than "plain clothesmen") in an underground public parking lot at midnight and being boxed in... with your wife, infant and other young children in your soccer mom minivan? Add that english is likely your second language and if the female Sgt is overcompensating the (already typical) needlessly overbearing aggressive commands of some cops while getting up in the face of the man... I can't blame him for honestly feeling that he is being carjacked, (Let's get it out of the way right now that IF the officers were not white, that teir skin colour would be an unspoken defence)
So, if I'm in his circumstances (as I understand them thus far) then yeah, I'm flooring it and getting the fuck away from whomever is banging on my window and standing in front of my soccer mom minivan.
Like most of us, we've been down in the piss soaked City Hall and other Green PEE parking lots with middle aged and semi-elderly WHITE homeless men wandering around looking for smash and grab car theft opportunities. Most of us downtown have at at some time been approached by agressive male and female panhandlers... always white for some reason (sorry TERB racists). I am 6'1" and fit 190 lbs...I have been told I look like a cop...walk with broad shoulders back, head up and with calm confidence and nobody so much as looks sideways at me or asks twice when I ignore their panhandling.. . But I am actually nervous in Nathan Philips and Dundas Square and other Green PEE lots and am hyper aware. If I got rushed by a masked guy like D. Const Northrup and his female partner were dressed and they banged on my wiindow and blocked me in... damn right I'd run over whomever is blocking me in. Some little tin on a beaded chain maybe lost in the folds of an open shirt is pretty hard to see in a dark parking lot. Especially if you are naturally focused on the eyes and mouth shouting at you less than a foot from your face! The hanging badge is not in your line of sight at that close distance... and once you see and the aggressive face getting in your face the natural fight or flight reflex kicks in.
I really, really, really feel bad for the police officers and their families out there that night trying to protect us. But I also feel really bad for the accused just trying to get his young wife and family home from celebrating his new life in this great country.
IF I may say so... maybe this North American maniacal POLICE- STOP- GET DOWN GET DOWN!!!!! seemingly universal police tactic should be reconsidered. Hindsight being 20/20 I'd suggest that if the female Sgt approached the guy with 3 kids and a wife calmly and, oh say, asked him if he had seen anything ... rather than assuming his brown skin made him a suspect... her partner would be alive today.
A tragedy all around.
But I also can empathize with the accused. Imagine being quickly approached by two masked old-clothesmen (different than "plain clothesmen") in an underground public parking lot at midnight and being boxed in... with your wife, infant and other young children in your soccer mom minivan? Add that english is likely your second language and if the female Sgt is overcompensating the (already typical) needlessly overbearing aggressive commands of some cops while getting up in the face of the man... I can't blame him for honestly feeling that he is being carjacked, (Let's get it out of the way right now that IF the officers were not white, that teir skin colour would be an unspoken defence)
So, if I'm in his circumstances (as I understand them thus far) then yeah, I'm flooring it and getting the fuck away from whomever is banging on my window and standing in front of my soccer mom minivan.
Like most of us, we've been down in the piss soaked City Hall and other Green PEE parking lots with middle aged and semi-elderly WHITE homeless men wandering around looking for smash and grab car theft opportunities. Most of us downtown have at at some time been approached by agressive male and female panhandlers... always white for some reason (sorry TERB racists). I am 6'1" and fit 190 lbs...I have been told I look like a cop...walk with broad shoulders back, head up and with calm confidence and nobody so much as looks sideways at me or asks twice when I ignore their panhandling.. . But I am actually nervous in Nathan Philips and Dundas Square and other Green PEE lots and am hyper aware. If I got rushed by a masked guy like D. Const Northrup and his female partner were dressed and they banged on my wiindow and blocked me in... damn right I'd run over whomever is blocking me in. Some little tin on a beaded chain maybe lost in the folds of an open shirt is pretty hard to see in a dark parking lot. Especially if you are naturally focused on the eyes and mouth shouting at you less than a foot from your face! The hanging badge is not in your line of sight at that close distance... and once you see and the aggressive face getting in your face the natural fight or flight reflex kicks in.
I really, really, really feel bad for the police officers and their families out there that night trying to protect us. But I also feel really bad for the accused just trying to get his young wife and family home from celebrating his new life in this great country.
IF I may say so... maybe this North American maniacal POLICE- STOP- GET DOWN GET DOWN!!!!! seemingly universal police tactic should be reconsidered. Hindsight being 20/20 I'd suggest that if the female Sgt approached the guy with 3 kids and a wife calmly and, oh say, asked him if he had seen anything ... rather than assuming his brown skin made him a suspect... her partner would be alive today.
A tragedy all around.
You seem a little confused as to how the Criminal Code works and who administers justice in the courts in this jurisdiction.
I'm sure he'll get due process. But it also looks like he committed Murder in the First.
If one were to accept the premise that in these circumstances he had a reasonable apprehension /fear for his personal safety and that of his children and wife, and was either not aware of, or did not reasonably believe or have time and presence of mind to comprehend that these were (or were impersonating) police officers... would the homicide still be classified as murder?
Just asking, not accusing nor excusing.
The defendant was committing or attempting to commit hijacking or sexual assault or kidnapping?
The Get down hands up!" Is meant to be disorienting. It's so fucked up.
I thought about this as well.
The first place I went to is the self defence provision of the CCC, which reads.....
Defence — use or threat of force
- 34(1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
- (a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
- (b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
- (c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.
- Marginal note:Factors
(2) In determining whether the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances, the court shall consider the relevant circumstances of the person, the other parties and the act, including, but not limited to, the following factors:- (a) the nature of the force or threat;
- (b) the extent to which the use of force was imminent and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force;
- (c) the person’s role in the incident;
- (d) whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon;
- (e) the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident;
- (f) the nature, duration and history of any relationship between the parties to the incident, including any prior use or threat of force and the nature of that force or threat;
- (f.1) any history of interaction or communication between the parties to the incident;
- (g) the nature and proportionality of the person’s response to the use or threat of force; and
- (h) whether the act committed was in response to a use or threat of force that the person knew was lawful.
- Marginal note:No defence
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply if the force is used or threatened by another person for the purpose of doing something that they are required or authorized by law to do in the administration or enforcement of the law, unless the person who commits the act that constitutes the offence believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is acting unlawfully.
If your reaction to maybe being carjacked is to ram the person and kill them, that may give you a challenge re "reasonableness". Jury might find the reaction excessive.
And 34(3) speaks for itself. But note the last phrase: "unless the person who commits the act that constitutes the offence believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is acting unlawfully." But you don't get to decide that a cop who just ID-ed himself isn't really a cop and kill him when he tries to detain you.
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‘This was not a murder’: Man accused of killing Toronto cop was out with pregnant wife and toddler, defence says
Umar Zameer and his family had just seen the victim of a stabbing when they were approached by plain clothes officers. “They thought they were being ambushed by criminals,” his lawyer told the jury.
‘This was not a murder’: Man accused of killing Toronto cop was out with pregnant wife and toddler, defence says
Umar Zameer and his family had just seen the victim of a stabbing when they were approached by plain clothes officers. “They thought they were being ambushed by criminals,” his lawyer told the jury.
After sightseeing in downtown Toronto on Canada Day, Umar Zameer thought he, his pregnant wife and two-year-old son were under attack by criminals when he accidentally ran over and killed a police officer in the parking garage beneath Nathan Phillips Square, his lawyer told a jury Wednesday as the high-profile trial got underway steps from where the tragic death of Const. Jeffrey Northrup occurred.
Prosecutor Michael Cantlon, however, told jurors Zameer is on trial for first-degree murder because he "chose to make a series of manoeuvres" with his vehicle that ended up crushing the veteran officer who was investigating a stabbing. The Criminal Code says that the murder of an on-duty police officer is considered first-degree murder regardless of whether it was planned and deliberate.
Defence lawyer Nader Hasan's opening address was the first time the public has heard Zameer's account of what was going on in his mind when his BMW struck Northrup just after midnight on July 2, 2021. Northrup, 55, and his partner, Const. Lisa Forbes, were in plain clothes that evening and Zameer did not know they were police officers, Hasan said.
“This was not a murder, it was not a criminal act, it was a horrific, tragic accident,” the lawyer said. "Ask yourselves whether it makes sense that this young man, an accountant and family man, who has never been in trouble before, decided to all of a sudden kill a police officer while with his pregnant wife and toddler."
But Cantlon suggested Zameer should have realized Northrup and Forbes were police officers as they approached Zameer, his wife, Aaida Shakih, and their little boy in the underground. The officer said multiple times "police" and "stop," and Forbes banged on the window and showed her badge, Cantlon said. Both she and Northrup had them dangling on chains around their necks that evening.
As the officers attempted to question Zameer, he accelerated forward, side-swiping the officers, said Cantlon. At this time, an unmarked police van pulled up in front of the BMW, prompting Zameer to hit the gas and strike Northrup a second time, forcing him to the ground. Zameer then quickly reversed the BMW, which rolled over the six-foot-three, 299-pound Northrup, "all before driving away from officer Northrup, who was left to die on the parking lot floor,” Cantlon said, adding he was "broken and bruised almost from head to toe."
The entire interaction took about 20 seconds, he said. Zameer was arrested before leaving the underground.
The crux of the case is whether "Zameer knew or was wilfully blind that officer Northrup was a police officer acting in the execution of his duties," said the prosecutor.
It's a pretty clear Murder One, if the Crown's account is true. Cops ID-ed themselves multiple times and the accused struck the cop with the car 3x, finally crushing him.
What else were the cops supposed to do?..... On duty cops have to be protected.
As the cops say “it’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”
He had no reason to believe they were actually cops.
I’d have protected my wife and children too.
He had no reason to believe they were actually cops.
I’d have protected my wife and children too.
Law-abiding citizen might also have been a little asshole, who just finished slapping his wife and kids around and was throwing a tantrum when the cops appeared and told him what to do and annoyed him. And he acted out and figured he would lie his way out of trouble afterwards.
And yeah, IDK either. But it also fits the overall facts.
At midnight. In a parking garage, approached by people dressed as tweakers, where a grey van suddenly pulled up to block them.
Fake badges can be bought anywhere on the internet, hell a Nova Scotia psycho owned a whole crown Victoria outfitted as a cop car and a uniform and that resulted in 22 people murdered.
I still say my reaction would be to protect my wife and kids against unknown assailants.
Canada doesnt have felonies, you wannabe lawyer
The Classification Of Offences in Canada and the United States | Weisberg
There are various crimes that people commit. In the United States the most serious crimes are classified as felonies.
www.weisberg.ca
Offence Classifications in Canada:
In Canada, the available punishments do not differ by province. The available sentences are the same across the country. Canadian law does not have misdemeanors and felonies. The system is based on three types of offences: Indictable, Hybrid and Summary (Including Super-Summary)
If that's the case, what protects any scruffy looking undercover cop from simply being killed at random by any person who claims to be scared?
The judge granted Zameer bail, so he must have believed his story.
If the judge had even the slightest of doubt I dont think he wouldve given him bail
If the judge had even the slightest of doubt I dont think he wouldve given him bail
Downtown is full of tweakers and homeless.
Like I said before, a cops line is “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”
If it’s a good enough philosophy for the police then it’s a good enough philosophy for civilians if I was protecting my child and pregnant wife.
Or are you advocating that police should have different powers for the law over civilians?
Cop fucked around and found out.
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As you know from previous discussions on this board, though, the view here is that police should always be ready to kill anyone at any time because their lives are dangerous and getting home safe is the most important thing.
That shall never be questioned and it is always the civilian's fault for not preventing the officer from killing them by behaving differently.
