The government claims they have been negotiating for over 500 hours in the past few months but no progress made. That's why they feel confident that if the teachers went to court claiming they were denied their right to negotiate the government has proof that they have been negotiating with no progress. This will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Toronto Sun - Ontario teachers headed for court
- Thread starter Moviefan-2
- Start date
It will be interesting. It may prove to be important that the province isn't the official bargaining agent for the employers.
The inside looking out
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I did not cause the recession, my neighbour who lost his job, did not cause the recession, no body I know caused the recession, it didn't even originate in this country.
But for some unknown reason,...civil servants feel they are above the average working stiff, and should not have to be a little responsible.
A point that union sympathisers like to ignore, why the hell do you think the Libs feel they would win 2 seats if they hold the teachers at bay??
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I'm not a lawyer, but threatening to take it to the supreme court, is still a threat.
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"Negotiations" have been going on for 6 months, to no avail.
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And here lies the crux of the whole problem with teachers and civil servants in general.
I did not cause the recession, my neighbour who lost his job, did not cause the recession, no body I know caused the recession, it didn't even originate in this country.
But for some unknown reason,...civil servants feel they are above the average working stiff, and should not have to be a little responsible.
A point that union sympathisers like to ignore, why the hell do you think the Libs feel they would win 2 seats if they hold the teachers at bay??
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Move up one level
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If the "official bargaining agent" fails, and has a history of handing out blank cheques, SOME ONE has to step in !!!
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Perhaps but that wasn't my point.
What I mean is the school boards are the employers, not the provincial government (we don't have provincewide bargaining for teachers in Ontario -- at least, not yet). As a result, it's not clear the province could use its discussions with the boards and unions as sufficient evidence that collective agreements couldn't be reached and legislation was necessary.
Of course, that's just my amateur observation -- I'm not a lawyer, nor am I certain this would be a factor. I'm just saying it could be an issue.
Possibly because they're desperate. I'm not at all convinced this is going to swing Kitchener-Waterloo in the Liberals' favour.
(But knowing my luck, a poll will come out tomorrow saying the teacher standoff has swung the vote to the Liberals.
)I thought suing means taking someone to court in an effort to get a court appointed payout. Here the issue is appealing the decision to determine a contract without negotiations.
500 hours of negotiations is news to me. I'm curious when did they happen. And which federations were invovled as catholic, public, secondary and elementary are separate branches.
If these negotiations happened it must be recent so one needs to know who was slow to get to the table? I can't say as I don't know. One could argue that maybe the province dragged their feet because this was their plan all along.... provide a tight timeframe knowing that an agreement couldn't be arrived at.
So that way when they go to the public they can say "hey we tried" and "if we don't do this there could be a strike (even though a vote hasn't happened)"
In other words make it looks like to the public that a crisis is about to be averted by passing this legislation.
And as for your shots at civil servants feeling like they should be immune..... I quite clearly pointed out that I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT TEACHERS SHOULD GET A RAISE
If the teachers are lucky maybe ethey can be sitting across from the table with the guy who went against the doctors who have seen an 85% raise within this decade.
I think the news that Hudak and some of the conservatives might choose to sit out on the vote, thus not getting blood on their hands suggests that the tactic might not be foolproof. Otherwise, they'd jump on the wagon too. Maybe they will.Possibly because they're desperate. I'm not at all convinced this is going to swing Kitchener-Waterloo in the Liberals' favour.
(But knowing my luck, a poll will come out tomorrow saying the teacher standoff has swung the vote to the Liberals.
From what I understand, both sides agreed to a wage freeze but the government took a hard line stance where they would not budge on anything related to money. keeping the salary grid seems pretty much a trade-off with the unpaid days. The only point of negotiation in the deals agreed to were to hire supply teachers based on seniority (glad that Hudak got that out of the bill) and giving more choice to elementary teachers about which students get which assessments (which likely is a money saver too).
Granted I haven't seen the full details but that is all that the news is reporting about government concessions.
You are missing the bigger picture here
Raises might be considered if govt revenues were increasing, however they are decreasing and the debt level is rising
In addition, there is a looming Greek tragedy (made in Ontario) if the province does not get its financial house in order and right now.
I am pretty sure the unions in Athens used your same arguments 10 years ago.
Now none of the same fools has a job and his kids have zero prospects for a future.
Lefties just do not want to even think about sustainability unless someone else is paying for it
Their inability to apply simple logic or look down the road a few years is just astounding.
On the plus side natural selection would appear to be working as union membership is withering
I don't think raises were EVER on the table. Both sides agreed on that months ago.
I know the secondary school teachers had ruled out an increase (it's never been clear what the sticking point was in their negotiations with the province). However, I think the elementary teachers were seeking a raise.
http://etfovoice.ca/site/collective-bargaining-spring-2012/
Nobody tells us...
Another sticky point is,...the unions don't like being TOLD anything,...example,...were replacement teachers come from,...you can't tell us were they are pulled from,...we make that call,...not you,...our employer.
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Increased costs and decreased output created by the unions can come in other forms, such as the request to be paid for time taking coarses in the time off during the summer vacation.
Another sticky point is,...the unions don't like being TOLD anything,...example,...were replacement teachers come from,...you can't tell us were they are pulled from,...we make that call,...not you,...our employer.
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Good !
However you seemed quite concerned that overpaid teachers will not be getting a raise
Now that ridiculous notion is off the table, perhaps they can discuss pro-rating the salary to reflect the 2 1/2 months teacher spend at the cottage.
Next point on the table should be driving efficiencies in the system. (number of classes taught & the number of students per class).
Next agenda item should be defined pensions and any indexing
Finally the banking of sick days is just an all out cash grab by this greedy lot. This unbelievable perk has to go.
It should be about providing a quality education at an economically feasible cost.
Instead it is all about teachers rights under collective bargaining and how much they can suckle from the public tit
That is so messed up
It is very disturbing knowing that this specific group is so out of touch with reality, yet they are entrusted with developing the impressionable minds of our youth
Guys, if the government can take away teachers' bankable sick days, they can also take away YOUR bankable sick days as well. How would you like to lose YOUR 20 annual bankable sick days?
Dalton's one step ahead of you:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...r-police-and-firefighters-as-well-as-teachers
I have been watching politicians for years and how they treat different unions differently. I doubt very much the police or the doctors will be affected at all. I put this all down to the difference in the political calculus of power.
My advice to the young is simply this:
Always try to join the most powerful group in society. If you have a really high IQ, be a banker and you can tell the politicians what to do. Next best would be doctors because politicians would not dare to mess with you. If you are just an average Joe, be a police officer or failing that, a fire fighter. Amazing what a guy with an average IQ can make in this society.
Being a politician is also good. You take orders from bankers, but are well compensated for the effort. Did you see what pensions they get with two or more terms in power. WOW.
And has been since even I was in school.
In fact pro-rating is entirely notional; an amount is prorated if someone says it is. The only 'real' amount is what gets handed over; if you don't change that it doesn't matter whether you call it per year, per nine-month school year, re-distribute it, as is often done, to be twelve monthly installments, or in the deal I wish I could get: Take four years pay for four years work, but spread over five, which is the same thing, but on a longer time-scale.
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