Toronto Maple Leafs 2013/14 Season

[Boober69]

Totally agree.



Totally disagree.

A)They already spend to the max, so it's not like they are going on the cheap, with a "we don't care" attitude, Harold Ballard notwithstanding.

B)By not having a winner (or even contender) they are leaving billions on the table with what they could generate from extra playoff games, from increasing ticket prices for a winner, from higher broadcast rights, from higher advertising rates, from merchandise and concessions. The city loves the team so much it is mind boggling how much more they'd make with a winner. That old argument of "because they already make a profit why should they care" is a total fallacy. Every business enterprise seeks to maximize profits and MLSE knows all too well that without a winner they are falling far short of that.

Fair enough, but remember that Rogers just spent an ungodly amount of money to buy the tv rights for the next decade or more. They will make their money from Hockey Night Canada and other ways. Info from a VERY reliable source says that Rogers will be making premier Leaf games (ie vs Penguins, Bruins, etc) pay-per-view for subscribers in due time. They didn't spend all that money to break even. They want a healthy ROI. They are not investing on the Leafs winning a cup to make gobs of money. Like in the pharmaceutical industry: there is no money in cure, but lots to be made in treatment. Same philosophy applies.

As far as spending to the max that's true, but that's where good leadership and decision making comes into play. They are obviously not getting their money's worth but have the liberty of being able to afford making poor decisions.

 

[smuddan]

I'm no fan of the media, but in all honesty lets have some player accountably huh?

The Leafs had a huge collapse last season in the playoffs against the Bruins. Everyone will have an opinion as to 'what happened'. Myself, I believe the loss of Mark Fraser who was instrumental at clearing out the net, combined with Reimer not being solid when needed were key. The result of that was Bernier to offer something more solid, Bolland and Clarkson to give more grit and experience. Both media and fan would agree last Oct... though hardly a contender, this was an improved team.

From October to Feb this year, you had ups/downs but a Leaf team firmly in a playoff race. Then an epic meltdown. The club lost Bernier to injury, and would lose 8 straight, and an almost certain playoff berth.
Media and fans have held Phaneuf in high regards. Giving credit where and when it was due. But since re-signing for 7yrs he has been MIA. I haven't seen him, have you?

Kessel we knew would be streaky, but after re-signing with the Leafs, he continued to hustle, score, and show emotion. I will not fault Kessel's work ethic, but also won't consider the media going after Dion, or others like Clarkson as being thrown under a bus.

This was a bad end to what did have much potential. As such, and being that many of these players are multi-million contracts, some level of accountability and change must come.

Did you happen to catch the post game interviews after the Jets game? Everyone but Dion thought they were out played. He alone thought hard, then said the club wasn't outplayed, and played hard too. They just made some mistakes.

Reimer I feel needs a change of scenery. More change then just that is needed though, as nobody stepped up during that skid to stop the bleeding, especially the Capt.

Mostly I agree with you Kathleen. Kessel played his heart out, and if all the other key player played the same way, the Leafs wouldn't be in this mess. He should be way down on the list of people that should be held accountable. As the highest paid player on the team, I'm sure fingers will be pointed at his direction, but I doubt how many of those are from true Leaf fans.

Phaneuf had played well up until the Olympic beak. He played huge minutes against the best players night in and night out, and was doing reasonably well when the team was getting great goaltending from Benier, and to a lesser extent from Reimer. However, he saved his worse games for the stretch run when the team needed him to step up the most. Unless he's suffering from some undisclosed injuries, the workload should not be an excuse. He's young enough and had the Olympic break to recoup that many star players didn't get. I'm just not sure if it was his bad play that made the team looked so bad or if mediocre goaltending exposed his real deficiencies. What they have displayed are just some unwatchable hockey. Being dominated by the Bruins was at least understandable, but playing like midgets against the Jets ???

As for Mark Fraser, to me he is just an average defence man, I love his toughness, but he's no Scott Stevens. He was doing ok as the 5th and 6th dman, but he would be exposed badly playing against the top players, even going back to last season before his injury. I had hoped he'd develop under Carlyle's tutoring but to my big disappointment, Fraser, Franson, Gardiner, and Gunnarrson all have taken steps backward. You'd think Carlyle being a Norris trophy winner himself would be the prefect teacher for these young dmen, but what we have seen is probably the worse defence in the league.

 

[lovelatinas]

Bad News! Magic number 3 for Columbus. Any combination of points gained by Columbus or points lost by the Leafs totaling 3, Columbus eliminates the Leafs.

 

[shack]

Fair enough, but remember that Rogers just spent an ungodly amount of money to buy the tv rights for the next decade or more. They will make their money from Hockey Night Canada and other ways. Info from a VERY reliable source says that Rogers will be making premier Leaf games (ie vs Penguins, Bruins, etc) pay-per-view for subscribers in due time. They didn't spend all that money to break even. They want a healthy ROI. They are not investing on the Leafs winning a cup to make gobs of money. Like in the pharmaceutical industry: there is no money in cure, but lots to be made in treatment. Same philosophy applies.

That doesn't change anything. We know they can make money now without a winner. A winner increases profits big time.

As far as spending to the max that's true, but that's where good leadership and decision making comes into play. They are obviously not getting their money's worth but have the liberty of being able to afford making poor decisions.

Being incompetent is totally different than not being motivated. Your original comment of the financial safety net infers they are not motivated which I say is very wrong.

 

[Boober69]

That doesn't change anything. We know they can make money now without a winner. A winner increases profits big time.


Being incompetent is totally different than not being motivated. Your original comment of the financial safety net infers they are not motivated which I say is very wrong.

All I'm saying is look at the big picture...46+ years...that's a very long time to be motivated. They are motivated to be the most lucrative NHL team (which they are). There is zero motivation outside the players and coaches to actually make a plan and win a cup. At this point, it's a "nice to have" for the bean counters at MLSE. You can only blame bad luck for so long...and they passed "so long" at least 20 years ago.
So if people remain fans just because "they keep trying" well...I'm not even sure what to say about that.
Things will only change if fans talk with their feet as proven in other markets/sports.
Name any other team in any other sport considered to be the mecca of their game who hasn't won a championship in a 1/2 century yet makes more money than all other teams in their sport.
I can't think of a single one.
That is madness.

 

[saxon]

Interesting situation on Wed. Night. Columbus will be playing in Dallas to finish the game that was suspended because of Rich Peverlys medical emergency, but the game will start with the Blue Jackets having a 1-0 lead. The score of the suspended game stands but the game will be a full 60 min. And more bizarre is that Nathan Horton is the guy who scored the goal but he likely won't play on Wed. which means he would get credit for a goal in a game he never played in. All of this might not matter to the Leafs but considering Columbus has to play 4 games in 5 nights starting a game with a 1-0 lead will be helpful against Dallas. Also for what it's worth, Lupul is done for the year and will have minor knee surgery.

 

[shack]

All I'm saying is look at the big picture...46+ years...that's a very long time to be motivated. They are motivated to be the most lucrative NHL team (which they are). There is zero motivation outside the players and coaches to actually make a plan and win a cup. At this point, it's a "nice to have" for the bean counters at MLSE. You can only blame bad luck for so long...

So you are saying that they don't want to make oodles more cash without risking any extra money. Anybody ( anyboob) should be able to see how ludicrous that sounds.:crazy:

If you read my post closely enough you would see I blamed incompetence, not bad luck. You even quoted it and still got it wrong.:frusty:

Your rebuttal failed miserably at every turn.:rofl:

 

[shack]

All I'm saying is look at the big picture...46+ years...that's a very long time to be motivated.

Another totally invalid argument.

There have been around 5 or 6 owners and /or ownership groups in 46 years. Every single one (except maybe for Ballard) is ultramotivated to get their best possible return after laying out big bucks to buy the team. There's been almost constant motivation throughout that time frame.

It's not one owner who has grown complacent. You are saying every owner has been complacent. There's another head scratcher.

 

[lovelatinas]

you are a knob and a troll..........coming back after a long absence, invading the sports section with a mindless post..........

He rules and trolls the blue board, it has since died or slow down with members declining because perhaps everyone is tired of his trolling. I for one am tired of feeding this troll.

 

[Boober69]

Another totally invalid argument.

There have been around 5 or 6 owners and /or ownership groups in 46 years. Every single one (except maybe for Ballard) is ultramotivated to get their best possible return after laying out big bucks to buy the team. There's been almost constant motivation throughout that time frame.

It's not one owner who has grown complacent. You are saying every owner has been complacent. There's another head scratcher.

I don't think I have used the term "complacent" in any of my posts so I'm not sure where you are getting that from???

You seem to have an excuse for every point I am trying to make. Fine. I'm all for a healthy debate.
Whatever the case, whether it's ownership, motivation, poor planning, bad luck, bad players, bad coaching, etc, etc, etc., ...the facts are the facts. 46+years and no cup and many years in there not even making the playoffs.
Yet ticket prices are constantly going up and they are making more money than anyone else. The fans are the primary contributors of that.

If that makes you sleep well at night then.................. GOlf LEAFS GOlf!

 

[shack]

I don't think I have used the term "complacent" in any of my posts so I'm not sure where you are getting that from???

All I'm saying is look at the big picture...46+ years...that's a very long time to be motivated. They are motivated to be the most lucrative NHL team (which they are). There is zero motivation outside the players and coaches to actually make a plan and win a cup.

You are right. You did not use the word complacent. You only used a phrase that defines complacent, i.e.lack of motivation. They are happy with the status quo. They are complacent.

BTW, I don't have excuses for your points. I have logical rebuttals as to why your points are invalid. You have been unable to do the same with my points.

 

[Boober69]

You are right. You did not use the word complacent. You only used a phrase that defines complacent, i.e.lack of motivation. They are happy with the status quo. They are complacent.

BTW, I don't have excuses for your points. I have logical rebuttals as to why your points are invalid. You have been unable to do the same with my points.

There are no logical rebuttals for defending an organization that can't win in 50 years yet charges fans top dollar for a mediocre product and is the most lucrative team in the NHL. The stats speak for themselves, I don't need to defend that.

 

[Butler1000]

There are no logical rebuttals for defending an organization that can't win in 50 years yet charges fans top dollar for a mediocre product and is the most lucrative team in the NHL. The stats speak for themselves, I don't need to defend that.

I predicted the outcome of this season but there is no talking to Leafs Nation. They will think with their emotions and not with their head. The ownership and management suck. Their scouting and player development suck. In this age of salary cap this is as important as anything they do on trade and free agent market.

Three years ago I chose to no longer give this team my emotional support. And until I see them ice a team that is truly capable of making it to the third round of the playoffs(not I didn't say the Cup. ) I won't bother to watch them unless I'm out with friends or there is nothing else on. I won't spend a dime on merchandise. And I will continue to deride the choices of the ownership until they actually take the steps to commit to winning.

Stop being Lemmings people. I know you don't want to hear it but can you say you would say the same excuses for any other team?

 

[shack]

I predicted the outcome of this season but there is no talking to Leafs Nation. They will think with their emotions and not with their head. The ownership and management suck. Their scouting and player development suck. In this age of salary cap this is as important as anything they do on trade and free agent market.

Agree. They have been incredibly incompetent.

 

[mynameisearl11]

... "The Aquilini Investment Group, which owns the Canucks, have fired Gillis while he’s still under contract at a reported rate of $2 million per season for four more seasons...."
For those of you thinking that Nonis cannot be fired due to a new contract extension. Read the latest news on the Vancouver Canucks! Nobody will be safe from his job at Leafs land by the end of this weekend.

 

[shack]

The Leafs are nothing like the Canucks.

Canucks have never won a cup. Please remind me what year they were formed and how many years that was after the Leafs last cup?

Not exactly the type of organization I would pin my hopes on.

 

[Butler1000]

Right......

So which one of you Lemmings is going to use the phrase "Wait till next year!"

Called it at the beginning of the season. Bad management. Bad defense(by all players). Equals Golf season starts early.

Jays won tonight by the way. That's the game I chose to watch.

 

[maurice93]

Canucks have never won a cup. Please remind me what year they were formed and how many years that was after the Leafs last cup?

Not exactly the type of organization I would pin my hopes on.

But they have reached the finals 3 times in their history (albeit 2 times sort of fluky teams)... 3 times more than the Leafs over that span.

 

[HOF]

Right......

So which one of you Lemmings is going to use the phrase "Wait till next year!"

Called it at the beginning of the season. Bad management. Bad defense(by all players). Equals Golf season starts early.

Jays won tonight by the way. That's the game I chose to watch.

:closed_2:

 

[gladheateher]

Just wait till next season ! It'll be the Leafs year !