Timmies fights min wage hike

[qwertyuio]

If they can not afford to live on the wage they are making, then they need to upgrade their skills so they can deliver more value and be compensated at a higher wage.

True. Except for the 8.6% unemployment thing.

Have you never had to take a job that was far beneath your skill level to make ends meet? If you haven't, I envy you. I've been there, and it's horrible. I'm sure most other people have been there as well. Yes, the skill set required of a job at Tim Horton's is very low, but that does not mean that the employees there don't have higher skills.

 

[Fireseal]

Blh blah blah is soooo right....


You liberal pussies seem to think that hiking the minimum wage will so something other than help drive up prices & inflation... Which it WON'T....

Have you ever even considered the fact that some jobs simply aren't WORTH more money??? Adding to that if those jobs are all a person can get that THEY aren't worth more money???

I don't give a fuck if they're "Victims" of whatever or not.... The simple FACT is that a person's labour, like any other thing offered & paid for, is worth what others are WILLING to pay for it....

Seriously... If someone (minimum wageslave, unionist, etc) is REALLY WORTH more... then they will be able to either get a job that pays more or start their own business & get paid more..... If they're NOT, they DON'T. Fucking. Period.

If someone is worth more than whatever Timmies, etc is willing to pay then why are they working there????????



FORCING people to pay people inflated wages beyond what the job is actually worth does Numerous disservices to society... Companies forced to hike pay for menial jobs HIRE FEWER & heap more work on the few they can afford... If it gets too expensive to support overpaid employees the companies CLOSE or LEAVE... Tell me... what's your plan for when THAT happens???

Oh yes I forgot... Taxpayers who ARE worth more due to hard work, luck & ability foot the bill... Because WE'RE obviously not worth the money we EARN...


Fuck you.

While you're at it, why don't you get rid of our anti-trust laws? Why not just let companies enter into secret collusion agreements? Then we'd have an illusion of competition and no real choice. Those execs will have also earned their massive bonus increases. Good for social cohesion right?

 

[MeatMissle]

Where is the source from ? Sounds more to me like the OP was fired.

 

[Fireseal]

It would not be bologne week in week out.
I am sure we could find some funds for a Christmas bonus in the form of some pimento loaf.
Or I am sure that employees would not be flogged at Timmie's for taking day old Tim-bits.

On a serious note, if you do not understand the concept of risk vs. reward, then you will probably never grasp the understanding of why companies can only pay people for the value they deliver.

What it costs people to live in a city or raise a family is their issue not their employers.
If bologne is all their services can buy them, then they had better like bologne

If they can not afford to live on the wage they are making, then they need to upgrade their skills so they can deliver more value and be compensated at a higher wage.

An employer owes his employees an agreed upon wage, not a defined standard of living

Yes, when people have that choice they may choose to join another organization such as a criminal one. Big risk and big reward, all in the right direction correct? Why would any of those people want to be part of a system where they have no chance?

As far as skills go, globalization has seen the pool of potential employees explode. I read the Toronto Star plans to outsource EDITORIAL jobs to India... I'm a programmer by education, and I hear about jobs going to India too, and all they have here are the QA jobs to check their code. These are definitely not the same pay as what a programmer would make.

There are fewer and fewer jobs that require a Canadian here to do them. It's gonna make a for a lot of angry people, and I'd love to see what "Mr Cull them all" (not the person being quoted here) will have to say when that happens.

 

[brocko]

So what does a Tim Horton's franchise cost these days? A lot right and you have no territorial rights that another one won't open just down the road. Ever see any franchise owner behind the counter, coming out of the back with a tray freshly heated previously frozen donuts? I see they are now promoting on tv adverts on their support of the coffee growers which to me translate they bought the land and are growing their own and cutting out the locals. I am sure there are some somewhere but any Timmies I go into these days are busy, most drivethru's have lineups and the line at the coffee counter at the local Esso is always busy.
Franchises are making money but just not enough for them and its fair they want to control and manage their operations to be profitable. The only recourse for employee's is to quit, work to rule, unionize or just be happy they have a job and park themselves there until a better opportunity for them comes along.

 

[JohnLarue]

Yes, when people have that choice they may choose to join another organization such as a criminal one. Big risk and big reward, all in the right direction correct? Why would any of those people want to be part of a system where they have no chance?

As far as skills go, globalization has seen the pool of potential employees explode. I read the Toronto Star plans to outsource EDITORIAL jobs to India... I'm a programmer by education, and I hear about jobs going to India too, and all they have here are the QA jobs to check their code. These are definitely not the same pay as what a programmer would make.

There are fewer and fewer jobs that require a Canadian here to do them. It's gonna make a for a lot of angry people, and I'd love to see what "Mr Cull them all" (not the person being quoted here) will have to say when that happens.

Pure Rubbish
I do not know how you can equate someones choice to break the law with a corporations opposition to paying an inflated price for low skilled labor???

If they are inclined to break the law, then they are probably not the employee that any company would want serving customers or handling cash.

Think about supply & demand.
If the pay is so shit no can live on it, no one will take the job & thus force the wage up.
Forcing a company to pay over and above the value of the service delivered will spur either inflation or fewer jobs.

Commies & union supporters are just not very good at forward thinking, they want what they want & they want it now, with no consideration for the after affects
Sort of like a child

 

[WoodPeckr]

I do not know how you can equate someones choice to break the law with a corporations opposition to paying an inflated price for low skilled labor???

Come on Johnny, get real!
CEO's been doing EXACTLY that for years now!
Guess you missed that in business school!....

 

[needinit]

I notice a couple of interesting points here:

1. The discussion that the economy cannot afford an increase to the minimum wage now -and to just postpone the increase for a while (as it was announced prior to current economic issues)

2. The comment the price increases were also planned before the current economic 'crisis' so shouldn't Tim's have also postponed those as well and taken that into their meetings as a bargaining chip.

3. The fact the minimum wage applies to people of all ages, not just the 14 year olds that can't make change - perhaps there shgould be a 'teenager' minimum then an 'adult' minimum (from either age 20 or when working full-time).

 

[themexi]

While you're at it, why don't you get rid of our anti-trust laws? Why not just let companies enter into secret collusion agreements? Then we'd have an illusion of competition and no real choice. Those execs will have also earned their massive bonus increases. Good for social cohesion right?

Oh, like the government "Party system" right??

Where every 4 years we have the "choice" of a different brand name of criminal??

At least with the corporations I still have a REAL choice of not choosing to buy their product.

 

[out4fun]

There is no need for minimum wage - during the oil boom, it was very difficult to fill minimum wage jobs out west. Many fast food companies paid more out of necessity. Supply and demand regulates things much better than a government.

 

[Ladyraven]

Blh blah blah is soooo right....


You liberal pussies seem to think that hiking the minimum wage will so something other than help drive up prices & inflation... Which it WON'T....

Have you ever even considered the fact that some jobs simply aren't WORTH more money??? Adding to that if those jobs are all a person can get that THEY aren't worth more money???

I don't give a fuck if they're "Victims" of whatever or not.... The simple FACT is that a person's labour, like any other thing offered & paid for, is worth what others are WILLING to pay for it....

Seriously... If someone (minimum wageslave, unionist, etc) is REALLY WORTH more... then they will be able to either get a job that pays more or start their own business & get paid more..... If they're NOT, they DON'T. Fucking. Period.

If someone is worth more than whatever Timmies, etc is willing to pay then why are they working there????????



FORCING people to pay people inflated wages beyond what the job is actually worth does Numerous disservices to society... Companies forced to hike pay for menial jobs HIRE FEWER & heap more work on the few they can afford... If it gets too expensive to support overpaid employees the companies CLOSE or LEAVE... Tell me... what's your plan for when THAT happens???

Oh yes I forgot... Taxpayers who ARE worth more due to hard work, luck & ability foot the bill... Because WE'RE obviously not worth the money we EARN...


Fuck you.

oh well I worked on and off for timmies over a 10 year period and my highest wage was 8.25.. what I did was worth soooooo much more . but when you can not find a job u take what u can get .. there are brillant people that have to work these so called easy jobs that aren't worth payin for. I would like to see you get behind that counter and do just half I did.. supervised, baker, both from scratch and then the flash frozen crap. drive thru guru. front counter. you name I did it cuz I had to..
so fuck you

 

[Ladyraven]

It would not be bologne week in week out.
I am sure we could find some funds for a Christmas bonus in the form of some pimento loaf.
Or I am sure that employees would not be flogged at Timmie's for taking day old Tim-bits.
On a serious note, if you do not understand the concept of risk vs. reward, then you will probably never grasp the understanding of why companies can only pay people for the value they deliver.

What it costs people to live in a city or raise a family is their issue not their employers.
If bologne is all their services can buy them, then they had better like bologne

If they can not afford to live on the wage they are making, then they need to upgrade their skills so they can deliver more value and be compensated at a higher wage.

An employer owes his employees an agreed upon wage, not a defined standard of living

actually you can be fired for doing such type things . and there is Never day old anything there as at the end of the day it all gets thrown.. do not speak of that you do not know!!!

 

[poker]

An employer owes his employees an agreed upon wage, not a defined standard of living

Agreed. It is not any of managements business how the employees live. That never was my issue. And, Tim Hortons (fast food) is a bottom end job. Most ppl get that.

However, the really big point a lot ppl don't seem to see, is that executives are pressuring the gov't to make policies strictly for their sole benefit. I elected a gov't to debate the facts... the pro's and cons in parliament and make decisions based on what's best for the country..... not the president of Tim Hortons.

You can bet that if the politicians cave to this pressure, they're not going to announce it was because of meetings with top level management of fast food consortiums. And Tim Hortons will continue to advertise what wonderful ppl they all are.


Secondly..... a good Tim Hortons employee is GOLD!!! Try to find someone that is good with ppl, knows math, or at least how to use the register, is fast (24 seconds or less is the standard at DT), cleans when its not busy, restocks through the shift, doesn't steal, shows up on time and doesn't call in sick because they like to party... and has the presence of mind to keep the donut and bagel shelf, and soup and sandwich area full of fresh product on the go.... someone who checks the washrooms all the time to make sure someone hasn't just taken a crap in the sink. Someone who actually empties the garbages when they get full, and cleans the hand prints off the glass... someone who dusts picture frames and plastic plants... someone who picks up garbage in the parking lot so the place doesn't look like a dump...

No, you need to be organized, fast and friendly... have a real drive to succeed at a Timmies because you are pressured for time.... and it is measured. There are a number of employees who fit this bill. Those who don't, get shown new opportunities in life outside of that store pretty quick... (if mgt knows what there doing anyway)

If it was all incompetent 14 yr olds like some would have us believe, then they'd be out of business fast. Some ppl work there asses off in those stores, and you wouldn't want there jobs for $20/hr.


Tim Hortons corporate standards are strict.

 

[danmand]

.. do not speak of that you do not know!!!

This is the political forum, lady, don't forget that.

 

[someone]

But... are you ok with corporations having secret meetings with gov't officials trying to influence policies that have direct impact on you

This is news to you? It has always been the case that special interest groups (whether corporations, unions, famers, etc.) have meet with government to try to influence policies.

While you're at it, why don't you get rid of our anti-trust laws? Why not just let companies enter into secret collusion agreements? Then we'd have an illusion of competition and no real choice. Those execs will have also earned their massive bonus increases. Good for social cohesion right?

I assume you are American as “anti-trust laws” is an American term. We do have similar legislation in Canada (currently the Competition Act but for most of the previous 100 or so years Anti Combine laws) but with plenty of exemptions. Over 100 years ago, labour unions were given an exemption in both Canada and the United States. Since then, you can add marketing boards (that is way Canadians pay more for many food products than you Americans do). There are also other exemptions. You Americans also have exemptions but not as many. Moreover, many argue that your anti-trust laws are tougher than our competition laws.

 

[emerging44]

Seriously... If someone (minimum wageslave, unionist, etc) is REALLY WORTH more... then they will be able to either get a job that pays more or start their own business & get paid more..... If they're NOT, they DON'T. Fucking. Period.

This is the sort of simplistic drivel used to justify all sorts of unethical and immoral behaviour.

 

[poker]

This is news to you? It has always been the case that special interest groups (whether corporations, unions, famers, etc.) have meet with government to try to influence policies.

No... not at all.... I simply wanted to make bloody sure this specific tid-bit was news to you.

 

[JohnLarue]

Come on Johnny, get real!
CEO's been doing EXACTLY that for years now!
Guess you missed that in business school!....

Go Away
You add nothing of value & your a moron

 

[ogibowt]

Those that argue for a minimum wage & just assume that a company like Tim Horton's or Rotten Ronnie's can afford to pay a higher wage to thousands of employees without any reaction or consequences do not understand economics , investment theory or human nature

The number one responsibility of a corporation is to make a profit for its share owners, while providing its customers with a quality product or service and operating within the law.

The managements obligation to pay its its employees well and its obligation to act in an environmentally and socially favorable manner are negotiation points between the management and the owners

If the management is able to pay higher wages and satisfy the owners demands for profits then no problem

If the higher wages reduces profits significantly then they will have to raise prices or provide the owners with lower profits.
The latter option is not favorable & usually results in stock sell offs & if persistent, management changes.


The owners have thousands of stocks to chose from for their capital. So if Timmie's pays more to the Bovine Betty behind the counter & delivers less profit the owners look for a better return else where.
Do not forget hey are risking this capital and expect a return on their capital

From a business stand point it just does not make sense to pay thousands of employees $10-11 / hr if the the value of the work delivers is substantially less.

For an individual running a Timmie's (ie a franchisee) it may be the difference of tens of thousands of dollars every year.
Do not forget he is has put up capital to buy the franchise , fund the operation and is taking a risk that it will perform well in that specific location
He expects a return for the risk he is taking

What risk does Bovine Betty take?
Her time!
And if she could sell that elsewhere for more she would

you really are a cure for insomnia..

 

[ogibowt]

Pure Rubbish
I do not know how you can equate someones choice to break the law with a corporations opposition to paying an inflated price for low skilled labor???

If they are inclined to break the law, then they are probably not the employee that any company would want serving customers or handling cash.

Think about supply & demand.
If the pay is so shit no can live on it, no one will take the job & thus force the wage up.
Forcing a company to pay over and above the value of the service delivered will spur either inflation or fewer jobs.

Commies & union supporters are just not very good at forward thinking, they want what they want & they want it now, with no consideration for the after affects
Sort of like a child

Larue..you are an ivory tower, out of a text book theorist...SORTOF LIKE A CHILD.?.you clueless wonder...we are all like that..hence the term credit, hence the capitalists saying you gotta have this, that and the other thing to prove your worth..its not just the domain of commies and union supporters..boy are you in space somewhere..