Thomas Jefferson

[GlennQuagmire]

"A wise & frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry & improvement, & shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson

Comments?

 

[WoodPeckr]

Did that apply to his many slaves???....

 

[GlennQuagmire]

Did that apply to his many slaves???....

Non-sequitur alert!

 

[WoodPeckr]

Hardly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom owned slaves!
Don't they count???.....

 

[GlennQuagmire]

Tom owned slaves!
Don't they count???.....

Count for what? Once again, please explain how this relates to the quote?

 

[hinz]

Tom owned slaves!
Don't they count???.....

What could you expect from a profligate spender who was deeply in debt and had encumbered his slaves by notes and mortgages?

BTW, why are you so passionate on slaves?

 

[WoodPeckr]

OK pay attention Quag and concentrate REAL HARD!

Were Tom's SLAVES.... free 2 regulate their own pursuits of industry & improvement, & shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government?....

Just wondering if Tom's quote applied to his slaves?

 

[GlennQuagmire]

What could you expect from a profligate spender who was deeply in debt and had encumbered his slaves by notes and mortgages?

BTW, why are you so passionate on slaves?

From Wiki:

Although he was born into one of the wealthiest families in North America, Thomas Jefferson was deeply in debt when he died. Jefferson's trouble began when his father-in-law died, and he and his brothers-in-law quickly divided the estate before its debts were settled. It made each of them liable for the whole amount due – which turned out to be more than they expected.

Jefferson sold land before the American Revolution to pay off the debts, but by the time he received payment, the paper money was worthless amid the skyrocketing inflation of the war years. Cornwallis ravaged Jefferson's plantation during the war, and British creditors resumed their collection efforts when the conflict ended. Jefferson suffered another financial setback when he cosigned notes for a relative who reneged on debts in the financial Panic of 1819. Only Jefferson's public stature prevented creditors from seizing Monticello and selling it out from under him during his lifetime.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Farking Brits!
Who woulda thunk it would go that way....

 

[GlennQuagmire]

OK pay attention Quag and concentrate REAL HARD!

Were Tom's SLAVES.... free 2 regulate their own pursuits of industry & improvement, & shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government?....

Just wondering if Tom's quote applied to his slaves?

Oh I get it now....you didn't realize that at the time, slaves were legal property of the slave owner. Being property, slaves were not "free to regulate their own pursuits...." To answer your question - Tom's quote applies to slaves as property. Slavery was not prohibited by the Constitution at the time, so Jefferson would expect a "good government" to stay away from his slaves. Jefferson's quote became relevant to slaves only after the 13th Amendment changed their status from property to citizen.

 

[hinz]

From Wiki:

Although he was born into one of the wealthiest families in North America, Thomas Jefferson was deeply in debt when he died. Jefferson's trouble began when his father-in-law died, and he and his brothers-in-law quickly divided the estate before its debts were settled. It made each of them liable for the whole amount due – which turned out to be more than they expected.

Jefferson sold land before the American Revolution to pay off the debts, but by the time he received payment, the paper money was worthless amid the skyrocketing inflation of the war years. Cornwallis ravaged Jefferson's plantation during the war, and British creditors resumed their collection efforts when the conflict ended. Jefferson suffered another financial setback when he cosigned notes for a relative who reneged on debts in the financial Panic of 1819. Only Jefferson's public stature prevented creditors from seizing Monticello and selling it out from under him during his lifetime.

Okay but Peckrwood never explained why he's focus on slaves only.

 

[GlennQuagmire]

Okay but Peckrwood never explained why he's focus on slaves only.

You are familiar with his "work" and expect a rational explanation? I am guessing it has something to do with DUBYA, CHENEY, DIEBOLD, OXYCONTIN, STRAW MEN, CANARDS, RED HERRINGS, NON-SEQUITURS, and HALIBURTON.

 

[onthebottom]

Did that apply to his many slaves???....

Careful, danmand get's very agitated when you criticize Jefferson.

OTB

P.S., see sig line.....

 

[WoodPeckr]

Careful, danmand get's very agitated when you criticize Jefferson.

Hey Quag showed you what Brits did to Tom.

 

[oldjones]

Oh I get it now....you didn't realize that at the time, slaves were legal property of the slave owner. Being property, slaves were not "free to regulate their own pursuits...." To answer your question - Tom's quote applies to slaves as property. Slavery was not prohibited by the Constitution at the time, so Jefferson would expect a "good government" to stay away from his slaves. Jefferson's quote became relevant to slaves only after the 13th Amendment changed their status from property to citizen.

So a government which declared it owned all the populace and the fruits of their labour would be a good government. And would continue to be so until, by due process under its constitution, it changed the property status of its subjects.

Which was more or less the British point of view of the revolt by their American tax-avoiding colonists: That until they properly changed the laws they objected to, they should obey them.

Anyway, we know what you think GC: Nothing wrong with slavery as long as it's 'legal'. Like waterboarding, eh?

I always wonder about the Richter measurement around Jefferson's grave when folks quote him as you have.

 

[larry]

Altho we do rewrite history, it's difficult to change the past. Slavery has been around forever. Used to be blacks enslaving whites. Then it got turned around. Then it got outlawed. Now we in the west shun it. I haven't checked, but I'd be pretty sure it's still common as dirt in the 3rd world. In Mr. Jefferson's time, it was the way it was. Probably he didn't use deodorant either. Times change.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Anyway, we know what you think GC: Nothing wrong with slavery as long as it's 'legal'. Like waterboarding, eh?

That is the type of nefarious equivocating Team 'w' engaged in the last 8 years with DICK being their chief spokesman from the 'darkside'!
Now Gagmire carries on DICK's mindset!
Think of Gagmire as sort of a 'mini-me' DICK!....

 

[onthebottom]

I'm still shocked that danmand has not lectured Pekkkr on his favorite phrases from Jefferson.....

Maybe he's biased.... LOL

OTB

 

[WoodPeckr]

Right, nobody is more fair & unbalanced than you bottie!...

 

[GlennQuagmire]

So a government which declared it owned all the populace and the fruits of their labour would be a good government. And would continue to be so until, by due process under its constitution, it changed the property status of its subjects.

Which was more or less the British point of view of the revolt by their American tax-avoiding colonists: That until they properly changed the laws they objected to, they should obey them.

Anyway, we know what you think GC: Nothing wrong with slavery as long as it's 'legal'. Like waterboarding, eh?

I always wonder about the Richter measurement around Jefferson's grave when folks quote him as you have.

I do not support slavery, just stating historical facts to help you liberals understand the debate.