There Will Be a One-State Solution

[basketcase]

....

No matter what Hamas says and what photos from Gaza show, you will continue to pretend that these are peaceful rallies for human rights instead of the often violent protests promoting the elimination of Israel and the Jewish presence.


p.s. Your 'prison' is entirely of Hamas' creation and Israel routinely allows tens of thousands of people across every month despite Gaza's government vowing to eliminate Israel.

 

[basketcase]

The UN says...

...a lot of things you ignore, like BDS being deeply infused with anti-semitism, Gaza rockets being war crimes, and Hamas is an illegitimate military/government.

Just a reminder, before Hamas used Israel's withdrawal from Gaza as an excuse to step up their terrorism, there weren't those border restrictions and an international airport was under construction. Even ignoring the masses of aid Hamas steals from their own people, Hamas is entirely in charge of the suffering of their people. They have even pissed Egypt off so much that Egypt severely restricts their border with Gaza (though you blame that on some Jewish conspiracy).

 

[basketcase]

I gave you a historically valid reference that can easily be found on the internet, but you refuse to acknowledge it. ...

Because it contradicts what Israeli, Palestinian, and non-aligned historians have said. The Lavon Affair was a real thing but your pretence that all Arab persecution was false flag is conspiracy.

Sad that you only see the world in extremes. Most rational people would see the flaws with Israel while still seeing the flaws in the Arab world and Palestinian leadership. For example, you seem as blind to Arab terrorism against Jews in Mandate Palestine and are willing to pretend that one event shows that it all was 'false flag'.

p.s. Chomsky is a linguist and a political activist, not a historian. The fact that he is of Jewish descent only matters to people who see the world in racist absolutes.

 

[basketcase]

One of my colleagues's father ....

You seem to ignore the persecution that Arabs Jews faced as blowback to Israel's creation. Israel wanted more Jews to come but the Arab world actively participated in forcing their Jews out. To recognise one without the other is pure zealotry.

 

[Frankfooter]

No matter what Hamas says and what photos from Gaza show, you will continue to pretend that these are peaceful rallies for human rights

The photos show that Israel injured 66 people on last Friday, about average for the last year and a bit.
Over 200 dead and 14,000 injured and you think that Hamas are the violent ones?
Talk about bullshit.

...a lot of things you ignore, like BDS being deeply infused with anti-semitism,

We know, you're against violent resistance to an illegal occupation, you're against peaceful protests, you're against the use of international law and you're definitely against the peaceful use of boycotts.
For you the only correct form of resistance for Palestinians is for them to just die.

The Lavon Affair was a real thing

Yes, as was the attack on the USS Liberty.

You seem to ignore the persecution that Arabs Jews faced as blowback to Israel's creation. Israel wanted more Jews to come but the Arab world actively participated in forcing their Jews out. To recognise one without the other is pure zealotry.

You seem to ignore the 5 million Palestinian refugees Israel ethnically cleansed and refuses to readmit while the Law of Return guarantees anyone with any claim of 'Jewishness' to be given free passage and citizenship.
To recognize one without the other is pure zealotry.

CBC had an excellent interview with Enright and Noura Erakat about Israel and the law.
Israel violates international law with impunity, says human rights lawyer

Enjoy.

 

[Liminal]

Because it contradicts what Israeli, Palestinian, and non-aligned historians have said. The Lavon Affair was a real thing but your pretence that all Arab persecution was false flag is conspiracy.

Sad that you only see the world in extremes. Most rational people would see the flaws with Israel while still seeing the flaws in the Arab world and Palestinian leadership. For example, you seem as blind to Arab terrorism against Jews in Mandate Palestine and are willing to pretend that one event shows that it all was 'false flag'.

p.s. Chomsky is a linguist and a political activist, not a historian. The fact that he is of Jewish descent only matters to people who see the world in racist absolutes.

Wilbur....thanks for posting about this book and providing a link. Your appreciation for diverse and enlightening viewpoints are welcome as is your recognition of the value of primary sources. It’s how we move forward.

On the other hand, dismissing primary sources because they are uncomfortable or not viewed as mainstream is the work of a mediocre mind that’s far too invested in a particular status quo.

 

[wilbur]

Because it contradicts what Israeli, Palestinian, and non-aligned historians have said. The Lavon Affair was a real thing but your pretence that all Arab persecution was false flag is conspiracy.

Sad that you only see the world in extremes. Most rational people would see the flaws with Israel while still seeing the flaws in the Arab world and Palestinian leadership. For example, you seem as blind to Arab terrorism against Jews in Mandate Palestine and are willing to pretend that one event shows that it all was 'false flag'.

p.s. Chomsky is a linguist and a political activist, not a historian. The fact that he is of Jewish descent only matters to people who see the world in racist absolutes.

I don't see the world in extremes. But it is you who denies that the Zionists never did anything wrong, which puts you in the extremes camp. Rokach's book is directly based on the diaries of Moshe Sharett, the SECOND PRIME-MINISTER OF ISRAEL. It is not rumor nor innuendo but the real thing. Her book was published in English when Sharett's diaries were in Hebrew only by court order, and not talked about in Israel because they were embarrassing to the cause, and contradicted the narrative that Zionists were so much better than anybody else.

In reality, it's been a continuous land grab since 1947, and land grabs always have nasty undertones.

The Lavon Affair was just the tip of the iceberg. This was confirmed to me by a few Jewish colleagues, namely Sephardim who came from Arab lands.​

If you care to watch the interview with Gabor Mate, an ex-Zionist, he is of the opinion that the Arabs had every right to resist the invasion of European Jews who wanted to take over their land and kick them out. You have a black and white view of history; in reality it is more like many shades of gray.

Chomsky doesn't have to be a historian in order to have credibility. He has the courage of saying it like it is. He is world renowned for his commentary on geopolitics, and only those who push the narrative will try to undermine him with cheap inferences of 'only' being a linguistics professor.

 

[wilbur]

Wilbur....thanks for posting about this book and providing a link. Your appreciation for diverse and enlightening viewpoints are welcome as is your recognition of the value of primary sources. It’s how we move forward.

On the other hand, dismissing primary sources because they are uncomfortable or not viewed as mainstream is the work of a mediocre mind that’s far too invested in a particular status quo.

You're welcome.

 

[basketcase]

The photos show that Israel injured 66 people on last Friday, ....

And they show molotovs being thrown at Israeli troops defending their border. Sadly you think that firebombs are just a display of human rights and get upset that Israel used non-lethal force against them.

We know, you're against violent resistance to an illegal occupation

Damn right I am. Why do you keep acting like attacks on random civilians are a valid response to a political disagreement? Is it because you are okay with attacks on Jews or because you think Arabs are incapable of moral thought?

You seem to ignore...

So lets see, Arab terrorism long predated Jewish terrorism. Arab states used Israel's existence as an excuse to persecute Jews born in their countries, but you only want to talk about Israel. Hmm.
So why do you refuse

 

[basketcase]

I don't see the world in extremes. But it is you who denies that the Zionists never did anything wrong,...

The fact that you claim that makes it clear you live in extremes.

It is sad that you act like an isolated incident is an excuse to ignore widespread persecution of Jews in the countries where they had lived for 1000+ years.


And sorry but Chomsky on politics has no more credibility than you are me. He speaks and writes well but he's academic credentials are in linguistics. I also still don't know why you put significance on the religion of his family.

 

[Frankfooter]

And they show molotovs being thrown at Israeli troops defending their border.

Gaza is not a recognized border of any country.
Its just a giant prison or ghetto.

Your troops are just 'defending' keeping 2 million people locked up with no drinkable water, limited energy, limited food, limited building supplies, limited medicine and limited chances to leave.
Shooting farmers who are working their fields too close to the prison walls isn't defending a border.
Shooting fishermen who are trying to feed their people is not defending a border.
Shooting women and children protesters is not defending a border.

Its defending what has become the world's largest concentration camp.

Israel writer: Gaza is a concentration camp

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190208-israel-writer-gaza-is-a-concentration-camp/

 

[basketcase]

Gaza is not a recognized border of any country....

That's only because you reject the pre-1967 lines in favour of eliminating Israel. Sorry but the UN disagrees with you and sees the '67 armistace line between Gaza and Israel as the defacto border.

And sorry but Israel lets tens of thousands of people travel from Gaza to Israel every month and ships in thousands of tons of aid. It's not Israel's fault that Hamas uses that aid for their own profit and promotion of violence instead of building up their people. There were not those border restrictions before Hamas used Israel's complete withdrawal from Gaza as an excuse to launch thousands of rockets at Israeli cities.


p.s. Israel knocked off a terrorist leader and active combatant and Islamic Jihad responds by launching at least 360 war crime rockets. I'm sure you tell me that those terror rockets are justified though.

 

[Frankfooter]

p.s. Israel knocked off a terrorist leader and active combatant and Islamic Jihad responds by launching at least 360 war crime rockets. I'm sure you tell me that those terror rockets are justified though.

As usual you defend Israel firing missiles into Gaza for political assassinations and then claim any similar actions by Palestinians not not expected through Israeli aggressions.
You're claiming that Israel is justified in assassinations but not Palestinians who you deny have a right to self defense?
Typical racist colonial crap, basketcase.

 

[basketcase]

As usual you defend Israel firing missiles into Gaza for political assassinations and then claim any similar actions by Palestinians not not expected through Israeli aggressions.
You're claiming that Israel is justified in assassinations but not Palestinians who you deny have a right to self defense?
Typical racist colonial crap, basketcase.

Pretty fucked up that you complain about Israel killing the guy in charge of rocket terrorism and don't take any issue with PIJ actually committing that terrorism. Just another case where you completely ignore the UN and all those rights groups you pretend to back simply to push your hate filled agenda.

And no, firing unguided rockets at cities is NOT SELF DEFENSE.

 

[Frankfooter]

Pretty fucked up that you complain about Israel killing the guy in charge of rocket terrorism and don't take any issue with PIJ actually committing that terrorism. Just another case where you completely ignore the UN and all those rights groups you pretend to back simply to push your hate filled agenda.

And no, firing unguided rockets at cities is NOT SELF DEFENSE.

The guy 'accused' of rocket terrorism.
No democracy just assassinates those accused of crimes.
Israel is occupying Gaza, running it as a concentration camp.
Under the Geneva Conventions they have a duty to treat those they occupy fairly, not assassinate them, not bomb their cities and not start wars to cover for a failed election.

Firing guided rockets at civilians is also a war crime and not self defence.
Israel cannot claim defence in assassinating people they are illegally occupying and ruling through apartheid.

End the occupation or give them equal rights.

 

[onthebottom]

A brief interruption of the circle-jerk I knew I was starting.

Does anyone really believe that the Palestinians have the leadership to negotiate a peaceful two state solution.

Does anyone really believe that the Israeli government is going to give up the West Bank and East Jerusalem for the creation of a Palestinian state?

For me, the clear answer is no. With that the only other option is a one state solution or the current occupation and terror cycle. Frankly I think the one state solution is less bad than the current state.

OK, resume your well worn circle jerk talking points.

 

[Frankfooter]

A brief interruption of the circle-jerk I knew I was starting.

Does anyone really believe that the Palestinians have the leadership to negotiate a peaceful two state solution.

Does anyone really believe that the Israeli government is going to give up the West Bank and East Jerusalem for the creation of a Palestinian state?

For me, the clear answer is no. With that the only other option is a one state solution or the current occupation and terror cycle. Frankly I think the one state solution is less bad than the current state.

OK, resume your well worn circle jerk talking points.

I agree, the one state solution is the only practical one now.
There are too many settlements to allow a legit Palestinian state and the de facto one state solution has been there for nearly 50 years.
The problem is that its clearly apartheid and basketcase and the Israel defenders try to argue that its racist to call for equal rights there.

But they have no endgame.

 

[basketcase]

The guy 'accused' of rocket terrorism.....

To bad instead of arresting him, Hamas routinely featured the guy at rallies.

I seem to recall you getting cornered a while back and denying that you ever describe Gaza rockets as self defense but here you are once again claiming that Palestinians have a right to fire war criime rockets randomly at Israeli cities.

 

[basketcase]

A brief interruption of the circle-jerk I knew I was starting.

Does anyone really believe that the Palestinians have the leadership to negotiate a peaceful two state solution.

I think Abbas realizes it is the end goal but after the PLO and Fatah spent decades promising to destroy Israel, he knows he doesn't have a political mandate to do so (or for that matter a mandate to stay in office). Hamas on the other hand is quite clear they will not stop until they control an Islamic Palestinian state in the place of Israel

Does anyone really believe that the Israeli government is going to give up the West Bank and East Jerusalem for the creation of a Palestinian state?

Netanyahu, absolutely not. More center/left parties will as long as they have something to assure their security. It was only a decade ago that a former Likud PM offered the West Bank, a shared Jerusalem, and a Gaza/West Bank connection.

 

[basketcase]

I agree, the one state solution is the only practical one now.....

The one that your heroes in Hamas, the Palestinian people, and the Israeli people hate? So much for you caring about democracy or human rights.