The wars deadline

[silentkisser]

I wonder if Biden thought that by offloading all their second hand weapons america could fund restocking the army and keep Ukraine going enough to stall and drain Russia. If this was the real goal all along, not to win but to keep Putin using up his resources.

On one hand, I think this certainly plays a part in the equation. I mean, Biden supports Ukraine, gives them the tools and other support to defend themselves, with no US troops being at risk. The benefit is it hurts Putin in several ways.

• The Russian military gets a bloody nose, losing thousands of vehicles, artillery pieces, jets, helicopters and ships.
• It hurts the Russian economy through sanctions and the staggering cost of waging war.
• It will likely check future military engagements by Putin in other areas.
• It hurts Putin's image and reputation as leader at home. This sort of reminds me (though I was young when it happened) of the Soviet misadventure in Afghanistan.
• Finally, it exposes Russia's military ability. Anyone who was concerned about them taking on Europe or invade Canada should be able to sleep a lot better knowing they couldn't even invade a country literally on their border due to supply issues.

Now, I also believe that Biden wanted Ukraine to win, but knew he was walking a tightrope about escalating the conflict. He knows he couldn't send US troops in without the threat of nuclear war....nor would he likely get support from the American people (well, at least from the Fox News crowd).

How this will all shake out once Trump's "deadline" comes...who knows. I mean, the ceasefire in Gaza isn't exactly humming along seamlessly....

 

[silentkisser]

I don't see reaching a treaty to save face to be a concern of Putin. I have
a hunch he is taking the time to await the disintegration of Ukraine as well
as to sow division within NATO.

Here's the thing: Do you think Putin would remain popular if he signs a peace deal where he gives up all the Ukrainian territory he invaded? I'm not even talking about Crimea, just the Donbas and what not? After the military suffered around 1.2M casualties? Do you think people would be OK with that, basically grinding down that many troops for no reason? I mean, there is a good chance the public wouldn't say shit. After all, they do not have a free press over there, so who knows how it would be spun...And, the reality is that they did not achieve their stated goals. They likely won't see a regime change and the idiotic "denazification" of Ukraine, and there is a bigger chance that Ukraine would join NATO after all of this.

So, we'll see what a treaty actually looks like. And, since Trump is beholden to Putin, there is a great chance that any deal will favour Vlad...

 

[silentkisser]

I'm trying to figure out what you mean here.
Are you under the impression there were no peace negotiations under Biden?

As far as I'm aware, since the start of hostilities Biden did not negotiate with Putin to end the war. My recollection was that Biden said he was willing to talk with Putin, but not without Ukraine's involvement. I'm also aware he tried to prevent the war, but Putin seemed to be hell bent on launching it...

 

[Frankfooter]

Here's the thing: Do you think Putin would remain popular if he signs a peace deal where he gives up all the Ukrainian territory he invaded? I'm not even talking about Crimea, just the Donbas and what not? After the military suffered around 1.2M casualties? Do you think people would be OK with that, basically grinding down that many troops for no reason? I mean, there is a good chance the public wouldn't say shit. After all, they do not have a free press over there, so who knows how it would be spun...And, the reality is that they did not achieve their stated goals. They likely won't see a regime change and the idiotic "denazification" of Ukraine, and there is a bigger chance that Ukraine would join NATO after all of this.

So, we'll see what a treaty actually looks like. And, since Trump is beholden to Putin, there is a great chance that any deal will favour Vlad...

Lets be realistic, Ukraine has no chance against the new and sophisticated Russian weapons.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2020799342953529444

 

[Valcazar]

As far as I'm aware, since the start of hostilities Biden did not negotiate with Putin to end the war. My recollection was that Biden said he was willing to talk with Putin, but not without Ukraine's involvement. I'm also aware he tried to prevent the war, but Putin seemed to be hell bent on launching it...

How is "he was willing to negotiate but not without Ukraine" mean that he didn't negotiate?
There were direct Ukraine/Russia talks through much of early 2022.
After that, there were talks between various groups all the time.
Are you seriously trying to say that only direct Biden-Putin or Trump-Putin talks count as negotiation?

 

[seanzo]

How is "he was willing to negotiate but not without Ukraine" mean that he didn't negotiate?
There were direct Ukraine/Russia talks through much of early 2022.
After that, there were talks between various groups all the time.
Are you seriously trying to say that only direct Biden-Putin or Trump-Putin talks count as negotiation?

Russia and Ukraine had negotiated an end to the war in spring of 2022, however it was scotched after Boris Johnson went to Kiev and made a bunch of promises neither the US nor the EU were able to keep.

It's been widely rumoured that Johnson did this on behalf of the Biden administration, whether that is true or not is debatable but what isn't debatable is that from that point up till Trump took office nobody in the Biden administration made any sort of effort to negotiate an end to the war.

The position that was being pushed was between all the various sanctions imposed on Russia and near complete emptying of NATO weapons and munitions stocks, Ukraine would be victorious thus negating any need for direct talks with the Russians.

This is something that many of the higher ups in the Kremlin lamented about publically, which is why they welcomed Trump winning the 2024 election. It's a shame because in the meantime the nation of Ukraine has been shattered and will very likely be losing another four oblasts including both Odessa and Nikolaev, depriving what's left of Ukraine after this mess has come to an end of any access to the sea

 

[Frankfooter]

This is something that many of the higher ups in the Kremlin lamented about publically, which is why they welcomed Trump winning the 2024 election. It's a shame because in the meantime the nation of Ukraine has been shattered and will very likely be losing another four oblasts including both Odessa and Nikolaev, depriving what's left of Ukraine after this mess has come to an end of any access to the sea

Seems like Russia has only been losing land lately.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2021618197980741960