The Ultimate Fighting Championships 101: Declaration

[kirmit129]

My first reaction was that the Silva/Griffin fight was fixed seeing how awkward it looked. However, I'm not so sure anymore. First of all, Anderson was backing off but Griffin also walked into the punch. Walking into a punch increases the impact. Secondly, a knockout can happen in 2 ways. 1) concussion(relies on power) 2) sudden twist of the neck due to a punch to the jaw(relies less on power and more on accuracy). Forest neck did twist hence he went down.

Conclusion: There is no substantial proof that the fight was fixed.

 

[Noir@heart]

All the hype of his skill level has been debunked. Too bad UFC has him as one of their poster boys. Think back to the beating BJ took against GSP, even though he quit, he still took it in stride. He did not leave running and crying.

If Silva performed the way Griffin did i have no doubt that people would be crying for his head and wondering why he still got paid.

Its not even the crying, passion is a wonderful thing. What erks me is his lack of disipline and poor sportsmanship. The old bully syndrome, it is all fun and games until you meet your match. From the way Griffin does his interviews everyone in their occupation should man up. He should take some of his own advice.

 

[chrispalen]

I don't think the Silva/Griffin fight was fixed. If you have seen how Siva fought in previous bouts, you will understand he is a much better fighter than Griffin and he doesn;t need a fixed game to beat Griffin. If he hadn't punched out Griffin last night, he would have finished him with his mean knee kicks.

Interesting questions is: who will fight Silva next?

CP

 

[Bale]

Silva has the sickest timing & movement in the sport. When he's motivated, he can't be stopped. It's almost like he sees everyone moving at 1/2 the speed that he is, he's out of harms way before the punch is even thrown. Just watch the slowmo of him dodging Forrest's punches throughout the entire fight. He maybe got hit once or twice with punches. It's almost like he's fighting against sparring partners and not ex-champs.

In terms of the knockout jab at the end, it wasn't surprising given all the damage Forrest had taken to the head up till that point plus the fact that Forrest has a bit of a glass jaw to begin with, evident in his past Jardine fight. You can tell when Griffin is about to go by his arms out flailing trademark, kinda sad to watch really. He's just not able to withstand any heavy damage to the head, unlike a Patrick Cote who has a brick for a head. Now if you can a fighter who can combine the tenacity of Griffin with the rockhead of Cote and the intelligence of a Machida, you might have a half decent fight for Silva.

At this point I think Silva should retire. There's nobody who can beat him when he's on his A-game. He really is in a class all his own. Even if Penn, GSP or Fedor were in the same weight class as Silva, I think the results would still be the same. And I doubt Machida and Silva will ever fight based on their friendship. But if they were to, I still think Silva would prevail.

Florian had a decent gameplan but it seems Penn's strength and conditioning training paid off. The way he rolled from the back to the mount and cinched up the final rear naked choke proved it. You wouldn't even think of doing this if you're really gassed. Kenny couldn't utilize his muay thai clinch to any effect either - BJ just kept shrugging it off.

But what was the deal with BJ's chameleon tongue routine as he made his way to the cage? I know he does this a little bit every now and again, but it was like in hyperdrive - very bizarre. New method of helping him channel his chi for the fight perhaps? LOL

Overall, a boring UFC event with too many fights on the ground in guard and not enough crushing damage delivered.

 

[Questor]

www.pancrase.org

I could not see the fight at this link. However, I just checked www.mmahacks.com and was able to watch it there. Mind you it was poor quality. Audio was all broken up and video was at about half speed. But at least I saw the Silva fight. BJ/Florian fight was not available for some reason, even though there is a link for it.

My impressions, from watching at half speed and no audio...Griffin is not in the same class as Silva. It was hard for me to tell how much damage Silva was doing to Griffin, but it sure looked like Griffin could not land a kick or a punch as Silva was way too fast for him. The fix? I doubt it. Who has what to gain by a fix like that in the first round? If it was fixed, I think they could have put on a better show than that, quite frankly. Griffin looked like an amateur, and Silva looked upstoppable. I don't see how that outcome helps the UFC, Silva or Griffin.

It wasn't a real heavy punch. But Forrest was walking into it, as has been pointed out already, and I think the punch just caught him the right, or the wrong way, and he went down. He was out cold for a few seconds. Then he was back, but by then it was too late. At least that's what I think happened.

I like to watch Silva size up a fighter and then pick him apart. But this wasn't a very interesting fight. Okay, before the fight, I wasn't sure about Silva being able to go up a weight class. When I fighter goes up or down a weight class like that, it can really throw off is strength/timing/endurance. But I still thought he was going to win. No big surprise there. He was heavily favoured.

 

[Noir@heart]

simply owned!! luckily he didnt break his leg or dislocate his knee.

 

[chrispalen]

I have sen Anderson Silva in a previous bout that he literally bloodied his opponent's face by grabbing the back of his opponent's neck with both hand and pulling his opponent's head down towards the ground and at the same time used his knee to kick up to the opponent's face. It didn't take too many of such strikes before the opponent ended up with an awefully bloodied face and/or broken nose. He is one tough fighter. Who can stop him now? Same question regarding Brock lesnar. Who can beat him now? May be Tito, may be Fedor. I can't wait to see such bouts
between titans.

CP

 

[kirmit129]

I think Lesnar is a shoe in. What has he ever done to deserve a title shot? When he faced Couture, he was clearly losing the fight until the rabbit punch(punch to the back of the head). He's champion for a year and he just recently had his FIRST title defense. Put him in the ring with a Gabriel Gonzaga or a Mirko Crocop and lets see how long he lasts. Heck I even think Tim Silvia, which I always thought was an average fighter who got so much chances coz he's Danas' buddy, would knock this guy out.

 

[C Dick]

I think Lesnar is a shoe in. What has he ever done to deserve a title shot? When he faced Couture, he was clearly losing the fight until the rabbit punch(punch to the back of the head). He's champion for a year and he just recently had his FIRST title defense. Put him in the ring with a Gabriel Gonzaga or a Mirko Crocop and lets see how long he lasts. Heck I even think Tim Silvia, which I always thought was an average fighter who got so much chances coz he's Danas' buddy, would knock this guy out.

I totally disagree, Couture struggled to stay in the fight in the first round, then he got owned after that. Conzaga or Mirko would be not match for him, he is too fast and too strong. Just because he is relatively inexperienced in UFC does not negate his physical advantages. And he is more experienced in UFC than Mirko. Admittedly, Mirko's previous experience is far superior, but NCAA wrestling is not nothing. Lesnar would beat Silvia as quickly as Fedor did.

 

[Manji]

I totally disagree, Couture struggled to stay in the fight in the first round, then he got owned after that. Conzaga or Mirko would be not match for him, he is too fast and too strong. Just because he is relatively inexperienced in UFC does not negate his physical advantages. And he is more experienced in UFC than Mirko. Admittedly, Mirko's previous experience is far superior, but NCAA wrestling is not nothing. Lesnar would beat Silvia as quickly as Fedor did.

Couture really didn't do much in his fight against Brock....Lesnar wasn't in any danger except for the fact that he seemed to be getting tired pretty quickly (most likely nerves - you could tell he was pretty nervous entering the ring)....

Gonzaga is no match for Lesnar....Brock's athleticism and strong wrestling would overwhelm Gonzaga....

A young Mirko in Pride could have put Lesnar away but I think the current older UFC Crocop would lose against Lesnar (as much as I hate to admit it).....

 

[Manji]

Silva has the sickest timing & movement in the sport. When he's motivated, he can't be stopped. It's almost like he sees everyone moving at 1/2 the speed that he is, he's out of harms way before the punch is even thrown. Just watch the slowmo of him dodging Forrest's punches throughout the entire fight. He maybe got hit once or twice with punches. It's almost like he's fighting against sparring partners and not ex-champs.


At this point I think Silva should retire. There's nobody who can beat him when he's on his A-game. He really is in a class all his own. Even if Penn, GSP or Fedor were in the same weight class as Silva, I think the results would still be the same. And I doubt Machida and Silva will ever fight based on their friendship. But if they were to, I still think Silva would prevail.

Silva's accuracy is unbeliveable......Every strike that he throws hit and everything hit is precise and accurate....

He didn't just hit Forrest with a strong punch he also hit him with an accurate and well timed one...Right on the Jaw....


As for future opponents for Silva....
There's always fighters rising up in the ranks....Its only a matter of time....
Yushin Okami deserves a chance....Moussasi (winner of Dream's 185 tournament) might be a good candidate as well (though he isn't signed with UFC)....
If Akiyama was bigger he could have been a threat but I think he's too small and hopefully can cut to 170.....


Plenty of guys in LHW as well....Shogun, Rampage and even Rashad should give Silva plenty of trouble....

 

[Manji]

Machida's next opponent is Shogun!
QUOTE]

Oops forgot about that one. I wll disagree with you though.I feel Shogun has no chance against Machida. Machida is a big step up from an aging Coleman and Lidell.

That's why I think Shogun needs one more tune up fight....

Shogun has fought some top quality opponents in Pride and won (Lil Nog, Rampage, Overeem and Arona) and has the skill set and intelligence to beat Machida...

It should be a great fight (in terms of technique and entertainment)....
If Shogun can fight like he did in his days in Pride he has a very good chance of winning against Machida (Rua definitely has the best chance of beating Machida in comparison to any other LHW in the UFC)....

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Couture really didn't do much in his fight against Brock....Lesnar wasn't in any danger except for the fact that he seemed to be getting tired pretty quickly (most likely nerves - you could tell he was pretty nervous entering the ring)....

Randy Couture was outgunned. He landed a couple of strikes, but given the size difference and lack of power, it wasn't nearly enough.

Brock was definitely serious and seemed to make the rookie mistake of blowing his wad too soon. Luckily for him, he caught Couture with that shot by the ear and put him down.

Gonzaga is no match for Lesnar....Brock's athleticism and strong wrestling would overwhelm Gonzaga....

Gabriel Gonzaga is a glorified tomato can. UFC hype machine made him into something he was not.

A young Mirko in Pride could have put Lesnar away but I think the current older UFC Crocop would lose against Lesnar (as much as I hate to admit it).....

He could have, but I personally doubt it. Mirko never faced a top heavyweight wrestler in their prime, let alone one with Lesnar's size, strength, speed and explosive takedowns. I think Brock would have ground and pounded the Pride-era Filipovic. But then again, I was never a Cro Cop fan in the least.

We've yet to see if Brock can take a punch or kick to the head. That'll be interesting... I think Shane Carwin would be a decent test - good size, good wrestling and has a powerful punch - and bigger hands than Brock! That's if he can get by Cain Velasquez - no easy feat. The only problem is Cain may be a bit small at 230ish for the Brocks and Carwins of the HW division. Otherwise, according to all the guys at AKA and others who have trained with him, he's a beast.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

You are correct about the debunking sir! It is confirmed that Forrest Griffin just ran off to pout.

I still think he had to take a piss. Either that or he crapped his shorts in the match!

Seriously, I just think he was embarrassed that he was dominated by a guy that he should have had a chance against IF he had followed a gameplan that included using his size (oddly enough, he didn't re-gain a lot of weight for the fight), crowding Anderson Silva when on the feet (very hard, given the difference movement ability) and taking the Spider down and laying on him (a la Lutter and Hendo.)

On a similar topic, Miguel Torres just got blasted into unconsciousness in his WEC title defense.

Maybe Miguel Torres will learn a little defence now. I love the guy as a fighter, but he always seems to lower himself to his opponents' abilities and ignores defence, particularly in the standup.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

That's why I think Shogun needs one more tune up fight....

Shogun has fought some top quality opponents in Pride and won (Lil Nog, Rampage, Overeem and Arona) and has the skill set and intelligence to beat Machida...

It should be a great fight (in terms of technique and entertainment)....
If Shogun can fight like he did in his days in Pride he has a very good chance of winning against Machida (Rua definitely has the best chance of beating Machida in comparison to any other LHW in the UFC)....

I keep waiting for THAT Shogun to show up in the UFC. He hasn't fought with the same energy and intensity that he had in Japan, where he fought like a man possessed. Two things that make Shogun less effective, IMO: 1. the ring vs. the cage (strikers tend to get a bit neutralized in the cage) and 2. no kicks/knees to the head of a downed opponent (a big part of his Pride arsenal!)

Plus I always worry about the guys that come over from Japan because of the lack of drug testing there.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Silva's accuracy is unbeliveable......Every strike that he throws hit and everything hit is precise and accurate....

He didn't just hit Forrest with a strong punch he also hit him with an accurate and well timed one...Right on the Jaw....

It also doesn't hurt that Forrest has practically no head movement and sticks his jaw up and out when he strikes.

As for future opponents for Silva....
There's always fighters rising up in the ranks....Its only a matter of time....
Yushin Okami deserves a chance....Moussasi (winner of Dream's 185 tournament) might be a good candidate as well (though he isn't signed with UFC)....
If Akiyama was bigger he could have been a threat but I think he's too small and hopefully can cut to 170.....

Plenty of guys in LHW as well....Shogun, Rampage and even Rashad should give Silva plenty of trouble....

I'm surprised the UFC hasn't made the Okami fight, even on a free TV thing (hard to sell a PPV in the U.S. with Silva-Okami as the main event), given Okami's "win" over Anderson in Hawaii 3.5 years ago. (It looked like Okami could have continued if he had wanted to.)

Gegard Mousasi - Perhaps, but hard to tell, given the level of competition he has faced (also relative unknowns/less than superstars). I've seen all his Dream fights and bouts in Canada for HCF and Bodog and I always think "This guy's good, but..." because there are many openings or mistakes his opponents made (particularly the Jacare and Manhoef fights.)
Yoshihiro Akiyama - too small and his standup is terrible
Shogun Rua - depends on which version of Shogun shows up
Rampage Jackson - if he used his wrestling, improved his head movement a little and learned to fight in the clinch. Has the punching power.
Rashad Evans - if he used his wrestling - he has good head movement and power that Silva must respect (unlike Forrest)

 

[The Oracle]

That's why I think Shogun needs one more tune up fight....

Shogun has fought some top quality opponents in Pride and won (Lil Nog, Rampage, Overeem and Arona) and has the skill set and intelligence to beat Machida...

It should be a great fight (in terms of technique and entertainment)....
If Shogun can fight like he did in his days in Pride he has a very good chance of winning against Machida (Rua definitely has the best chance of beating Machida in comparison to any other LHW in the UFC)....

It's like Captain Fantastic said though whens the Shogun that we all admired going to show up. It's nice to see he is passing all the drug tests but he just looks and moves different. I know the timing wasn't right but I would have liked to see Shogun fight Ortiz as his next fight. Ortiz will be a good gatekeeper in the division and always comes in shape. I repect him as a fighter and am glad he is back where he belongs.

 

[burt-oh-my!]

Whats the name of that guy from Uzebikstan or Tajikastan or some kind of stan, his mouthpiece makes him look like he has fangs, he used to hav elong hair now average. He always struck me as a tough SOB and I can't recall seeing him lose recently. Not that I keep up on all the events.

 

[Questor]

Whats the name of that guy from Uzebikstan or Tajikastan or some kind of stan, his mouthpiece makes him look like he has fangs, he used to hav elong hair now average. He always struck me as a tough SOB and I can't recall seeing him lose recently. Not that I keep up on all the events.

Do you mean Arlov? If so, I believe he is a heavy weight. He has lots of talent, but I am not sure how he is ranked these days, or if he has lived up to his potential.

 

[burt-oh-my!]

ah! I remember, Arlovski I thought it was.