I'm sure 80% percent of the population doesn't appreciate being called Shiit.onthebottom said:I'm sure the 80 % of the country that the Shiit and Kurds represend don't want him back, and many of the sainer Sunni as well. You guys should really think about this stuff before you post it.
Muppet show and name calling - did I walk into a middle school.
OTB
Those two guys were great... when you are a kid you wonder if there are real people like that...then you say to your self NAW...there are no real people like that, cuz if there were, that would really suck..... i am an adult now, and i got the problems of an adult..... and that really sucks that there are so many people out there that are like statler and waldorflangeweile said:Him and some others here,remind me of the two old guys from the Muppet Show, that always sat on the balcony and made fun and complained about everything.
It is so much easier to comlain about something, than to do anything about it.
.
Drunken Master said:As I said in another thread, the very last possible line of moral defense for the war was that Iraqis would be better off - ie not getting killed as much - without Sadaam. There is now ample and credible evidence that this is not the case, and some indication that it may never be the case.
As far as I'm concerned, 'nuff said.
Constructive recomendation? So, you expect the anti-war crowd to fix the mess the pro-war crowd created? Fascinating.onthebottom said:Slow,
About as close to a constructive recomendation you'll find from the anit-war crowd here is that the US should leave now. The rest is a combination of insulting Bush and dire consequenses predictions.
OTB
What makes you qualified to say he was?slowandeasy said:Earlier in the post, someone posted that they did not think that Saddam was a threat to the world!! I would like to know what qualified him/her to make that decision..
Were you not paying attention when I provided said solution? Fire those responsible for screwing up in the first place. Was this too complicated? Or, true to form, are you simply going to put your head in the sand whenever somebody provides an answer to one of your silly little challenges?onthebottom said:Slow,
DM has pulled a double header - contradicted himseld on the Iraqi people wanting Saddam back and proving my point on the bash Bush - no constructive solution.
I'd expect a lot of this going forward.
OTB
OHH please. Do you have some kind of an inferiority complex? i have heard a lot of bull on this site, but this takes the cake.Mcluhan said:
I have actually sat at the table with heads of state. So I am not completely without terms of reference, on a personal level.
Remind me - of what religious presuasion is Moqtada al-Sadr?bbking said:You know OTB what these fools forget is that the militant Shi'ite (DM - note there is an ' in the word) crowd laid down there arms to participate in the elections mainly because they have an opportunity to share power without getting themselves killed. However the militant Sunnis - who were used to all the power have little chance of obtaining any power with the upcoming elections - It seems our friends OTB are little studied in human nature. They don't seem to grasp the very simple concept that when you had power and now have no chance at power, your only option is to blown things up in the hope of destroying the new order.
Personally OTB, the US should do what 90% of all countries on this planet would do in a heart beat - cut and run and leave the Iraq to the tender mercies of the extremists, it will be decades before this country could pose any threat even with a militant government.
bbk
No, properly transliterated the "k" sound in Arabic is traditionally rendered as "q".bbking said:You got your facts all farked up - al-Sadr is the Shi'ite that laid down his weapons (well most of them anyways) and is fielding a group of candidates in the upcoming election. Hell it was in all the papers this spring - remember the mosque, graveyard, the really important religous sites - lots of dead people, the meeting with the top Shi'ite mullah. I really don't know how you missed it. BTW it's Moktada.
bbk
Well, I guess that settles it - the Sunnis are the bad guys.bbking said:It remains to be seen if al-Sadr will respect the results but as of this writing his militia ain't firing at Americans.
bbk
No kidding!bbking said:BTW the Arabic alphabet is very different than the one we are using
Try typing "moktada al-sadr" into Goggle. Let me know what happens.so you shouldn't use our *q* to denote the sound K at least not in this case
Hey Slowand easy, welcome to the bash-fest, although you might want to duck under the table, while the glass smashes overhead into the walls on all four sides.slowandeasy said:"THE TRUTH"
My stake in the ground driven here is: if humanity is to form an educated opinion, they must not be kept in ignorance of the facts. This thread is about that concept.
At the beginning of this thread, the above was stated. I have tried to stay out of this Political Forum for a number of reasons.
When I first read this thread, I had hoped that this was infact a truthful thread... As I read the initial post, at first, I was glad that the original poster (Mcluhan i think) had posted it. I completely agree that things over there are probably worse than we realize.
But unfortunately, what I proceeded to read was a completely onesided account of what's happening in Iraq...by some "journalist" who's truth seems to be to prove that this war has resulted in the Iraqi people being worse off than under Saddam...
If you are going to post something about THE TRUTH...then please be truthful and do not present a one sided account of the 'truth".....
1. you're = you are.bbking said:I did and once again your wrong besides why would an Arab care if we spell the sound K as a q or a k, your making absolutely no sense.
bbk
slowandeasy said:"THE TRUTH"
.....But unfortunately, what I proceeded to read was a completely onesided account of what's happening in Iraq...by some "journalist" who's truth seems to be to prove that this war has resulted in the Iraqi people being worse off than under Saddam...
If you are going to post something about THE TRUTH...then please be truthful and do not present a one sided account of the 'truth".....
con'tThe Phantom Weapons...
The phone hasn't been working for almost a week now. We just got the line back today. For the last six days, I'd pick up the phone and hear... silence. Nothing. This vast nothingness would be followed by a few futile 'hellos' and a forceful punching of some random numbers with my index finger. It isn't always like this, of course. On some days, you can pick up the telephone and hear a bunch of other people screaming "allooo? Allooo?" E. once struck up a conversation with a complete stranger over the phone because they were both waiting for a line. E. wanted to call our uncle and the woman was trying to call her grandson.
The dial-tone came about an hour ago (I've been checking since morning) and I'm taking advantage of it.
The electricity situation isn't very much better. We're getting two hours of electricity (almost continuous) and then eight hours of no electricity (continuous). We still can't get the generators going for very long because of the fuel shortage. Kerosene is really becoming a problem now. I guess we weren't taking it very seriously at first because, it really is probably the first time Iraq has seen a kerosene shortage and it is still difficult to believe. They say in 1991 when there was a gasoline shortage which lasted for the duration of the war and some time after, kerosene was always plentiful. This isn't the situation now. We're buying it for obscene prices and it's really only useful for the lamps and the heaters.
It feels like just about everyone who can is going to leave the country before the elections. They say the borders between Syria and Jordan might be closed a week before elections so people are rushing to get packed and get out. Many families are simply waiting for their school-age children to finish mid-year finals or college exams so they can leave.
This was an interesting piece of news a couple of days ago:
The United States has ended its physical search for weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq, which was cited by the first administration of President George W Bush as the main reason for invading the country, the White House has said.
Why does this not surprise me? Does it surprise anyone? I always had the feeling that the only people who actually believed this war was about weapons of mass destruction were either paranoid Americans or deluded expatriate Iraqis- or a combination of both. I wonder now, after hundreds and hundreds of Americans actually died on Iraqi soil and over a hundred-thousand Iraqis are dead, how Americans view the current situation. I have another question- the article mentions a "Duelfer Report" stating the weapons never existed and all the intelligence was wrong. This report was supposedly published in October 2004. The question is this: was this report made public before the elections? Did Americans actually vote for Bush with this knowledge?
Over here, it's not really "news" in the sense that it's not new. We've been expecting a statement like this for the last two years. While we were aware the whole WMD farce was just a badly produced black comedy, it's still upsetting to hear Bush's declaration that he was wrong. It's upsetting because it just confirms the worst: right-wing Americans don't care about justifying this war. They don't care about right or wrong or innocents dead and more to die. They were somewhat ahead of the game. When they saw their idiotic president wasn't going to find weapons anywhere in Iraq, they decided it would be about mass graves. It wasn't long before the very people who came to 'liberate' a sovereign country soon began burying more Iraqis in mass graves. The smart weapons began to stupidly kill 'possibly innocent' civilians (they are only 'definitely innocent' if they are working with the current Iraqi security forces or American troops). It went once more from protecting poor Iraqis from themselves to protecting Americans from 'terrorists'. Zarqawi very conveniently entered the picture.
Zarqawi is so much better than WMD. He's small, compact and mobile. He can travel from Falloojeh to Baghdad to Najaf to Mosul… whichever province or city really needs to be oppressed. Also, conveniently, he looks like the typical Iraqi male- dark hair, dark eyes, olive skin, medium build. I wonder how long it will take the average American to figure out that he's about as substantial as our previously alleged WMD.
Now we're being 'officially' told that the weapons never existed. After Iraq has been devastated, we're told it's a mistake. You look around Baghdad and it is heart-breaking. The streets are ravaged, the sky is a bizarre grayish-bluish color- a combination of smoke from fires and weapons and smog from cars and generators. There is an endless wall that seems to suddenly emerge in certain areas to protect the Green Zoners... There is common look to the people on the streets- under the masks of fear, anger and suspicion, there's also a haunting look of uncertainty and indecision. Where is the country going? How long will it take for things to even have some vague semblance of normality? When will we ever feel safe?
A question poses it self at this point- why don't they let the scientists go if the weapons don't exist? Why do they have Iraqi scientists like Huda Ammash, Rihab Taha and Amir Al Saadi still in prison? Perhaps they are waiting for those scientists to conveniently die in prison? That way- they won't be able to talk about the various torture techniques and interrogation tactics...
I hope Americans feel good about taking their war on terror to foreign soil. For bringing the terrorists to Iraq- Chalabi, Allawi, Zarqawi, the Hakeems… How is our current situation going to secure America? How is a complete generation that is growing up in fear and chaos going to view Americans ten years from now? Does anyone ask that? After September 11, because of what a few fanatics did, Americans decided to become infected with a collective case of xenophobia… Yet after all Iraqis have been through under the occupation, we're expected to be tolerant and grateful. Why? Because we get more wheat in our diets?
Terror isn't just worrying about a plane hitting a skyscraper…terrorism is being caught in traffic and hearing the crack of an AK-47 a few meters away because the National Guard want to let an American humvee or Iraqi official through. Terror is watching your house being raided and knowing that the silliest thing might get you dragged away to Abu Ghraib where soldiers can torture, beat and kill. Terror is that first moment after a series of machine-gun shots, when you lift your head frantically to make sure your loved ones are still in one piece. Terror is trying to pick the shards of glass resulting from a nearby explosion out of the living-room couch and trying not to imagine what would have happened if a person had been sitting there.
The weapons never existed. It's like having a loved one sentenced to death for a crime they didn't commit- having your country burned and bombed beyond recognition, almost. Then, after two years of grieving for the lost people, and mourning the lost sovereignty, we're told we were innocent of harboring those weapons. We were never a threat to America...
Congratulations Bush- we are a threat now.
Mcluhan said:...
It was pretty clear to me, watching the run-up to war that Saddam had no WMD. ...
Good old doublespeak.Mcluhan said:...
BTW, where did he get all those WMD? Ask Rummy...he sold them.
