Army yes...insurgents....no..two different issues. The army is not fighting anymore.mrpolarbear said:
BBK the slogan 3rd largest army was done for publicity. They certainly didn't fight like it.
The Truth On Iraq: It's Devastated
- Thread starter Mcluhan
- Start date
BBK the slogan 3rd largest army was done for publicity. They certainly didn't fight like it.
Where is Ranger? After weeks of disagreement on this point, I finally reversed my opinion, and decided the US should pull out. I was expecting at least one Ha! i told you so!"bbking said:
This thread was much more entertaining with his lambasting.It's all about winning!
OTB, interesting take on 'winning'. Enjoy!onthebottom said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1393528,00.html
Wow, this thread just keeps on going....
This year will be a big year for Iraq....
The elections, the new government and the ability of Iraq's security forces to slowly demonstrate that it will be able to handle things on its own (though the US military will definitly have to be strong presence in Iraq for years)....
It seems that the United States (Bush and his cabinet) is still committed to finishing what it started in Iraq despite what some here are saying....
This year will be a big year for Iraq....
The elections, the new government and the ability of Iraq's security forces to slowly demonstrate that it will be able to handle things on its own (though the US military will definitly have to be strong presence in Iraq for years)....
It seems that the United States (Bush and his cabinet) is still committed to finishing what it started in Iraq despite what some here are saying....
Manji said:This year will be a big year for Iraq....
The elections, the new government and the ability of Iraq's security forces to slowly demonstrate that it will be able to handle things on its own (though the US military will definitly have to be strong presence in Iraq for years)....
It seems that the United States (Bush and his cabinet) is still committed to finishing what it started in Iraq despite what some here are saying....
Even if there is a plan to pull out any time soon. Do you seriously believe that it would be communicated?
Like I said earlier, this will be over some time after the midterm elections, especially if things continue to worsen.
Press release:langeweile said:
The Baghdad Burning book
In her riveting weblog, a remarkable young Iraqi woman gives a human face to war and occupation.
In August 2003, the world gained access to a remarkable new voice: a blog written by a 25-year-old Iraqi woman living in Baghdad, whose identity remained concealed for her own protection. Calling herself Riverbend, she offered searing eyewitness accounts of the everyday realities on the ground, punctuated by astute analysis on the politics behind these events.
Riverbend recounts stories of life in an occupied city - of neighbors whose home are raided by U.S. troops, whose relatives disappear into prisons, and whose children are kidnapped by money-hungry militias. The only Iraqi blogger writing from a woman's perspective, she also describes a once-secular city where women are now afraid to leave their homes without head covering and a male escort.
Interspersedwith these vivid snapshots from daily life are Riverbend's analyses of everything from the elusive workings of the Iraqi Governing Council to the torture in Abu Gharib, from the coverage provided by American media and by Al-Jazeera to Bush's State of the Union Speech. Here again, she focuses especially on the fate of women, whose rights and freedoms have fallen victim to rising fundamentalisms in a chaotic post-war society.
With thousands of loyal readers worldwide, the Riverbend blog is recognized around the world as a crucial source of information not available through the mainstream media.
The book is due out in March 2005. You can order it from the Feminist Press at the City University of New York.
Y
yychobbyist
Ok ok. I'll say it first (to save Langeweile and OTB the trouble), how can you trust anything published by a placed called the Feminist Press? I mean, I've never heard of it, it's so obviously a biased publisher as to be completely meaningless. Unless it's published by an unbiased source like the National Review I would pay this book no heed.Mcluhan said:
I think its a good thing you've never heard of this publisher Feminist Press. And neither have I.
Point was in response to the angry german's remarks about my blog sources, (this btw was the only blog i referenced). I found it interesting that the blog was being published into a book... maybe that in itself is note worthy (to some who read the blog). It's probably not every day a blog is published...let alone by a new york house.
(Edited to add: Sorry YYC, it just occured you are being facetious...lol.. I'm having a LOW I.Q. day!)
Point was in response to the angry german's remarks about my blog sources, (this btw was the only blog i referenced). I found it interesting that the blog was being published into a book... maybe that in itself is note worthy (to some who read the blog). It's probably not every day a blog is published...let alone by a new york house.
(Edited to add: Sorry YYC, it just occured you are being facetious...lol.. I'm having a LOW I.Q. day!)
As much as I was against the Iraq war, I simply think that many of these claims are a combination of good writing and propaganda. Sure things are tough. Sure there are instances of terrible things - but all that is being claimed here; I am simply not that gullible.
Y
yychobbyist
That the Afghans withstood the Russians for a decade and the US will get bogged down in the mountains.... oh waityychobbyist said:
That the US will suffer huge casualties in house to house fighting before Saddam can be overthrown..... oh wait
That there is a nation wide insurgency and that democracy can't come to Iraq - yeah that's the one.
OTB
Y
yychobbyist
Come back to this board in ten years and then we can talk about that one. Democracy will not come to Iraq this month or next. To think any differently is to dream in technicolour.lonthebottom said:
Has democracy come to Afghanistan? How about Japan where the same party has been in charge since WWII? Depends on how you define it I guess. Iraqi citizens will elect representatives that will govern them - that would have to be one definition.yychobbyist said:
OTB
Y
yychobbyist
Yes, it was devilishly clever plan. Invent a global terror threat, by marketing the falsehood of WMD, backed by such tales as the Niger uranium forgeries. Step two, lie some more and fire/demote the disagreeable counter intelligence core because they were in the way. Invade a sovereign nation with no ties to terrorism. Destroy half the country. Kill 110,000 civilians. Deploy 100 billion dollars to service corporations with ailing balance sheets who do not rebuild the country because it’s suddenly too dangerous, but they keep the money anyway (and ask for more). Do not secure the suddenly unprotected boarders so the genuine al Qaeda terrorists, can flood into the devastated country to gorge themselves killing soldiers riding around in aluminum foil armor. Then when the public begins to question the credibility factor, invent a larger WMD threat right next door in Iran, the evil theocracy. The bigger the lie the more believable.
Finally, the ultimate public relations coup de gras, sweep the whole mess of lies under the Persian rug by claiming it’s all about national safety and the spreading of Democracy. No gullibility factor here whatsoever. 200 billion well spent. Let’s not forget that we also finally captured one al Qaeda lieutenant. Well done.
Finally, the ultimate public relations coup de gras, sweep the whole mess of lies under the Persian rug by claiming it’s all about national safety and the spreading of Democracy. No gullibility factor here whatsoever. 200 billion well spent. Let’s not forget that we also finally captured one al Qaeda lieutenant. Well done.
You're right - democracy is in the defining. I've always that the fact that Japan enjoys a singularly autocractic form of democracy is proof positive that you can't enter a country that has little or no tradition of democracy and expect to create one with any ease.onthebottom said:
And, just so we're clear, Iraqi citizens will not be electing "representatives that will govern them". They will be electing representatives who will debate and approve a constitution. Iraqi democracy is still a long ways away.
Good idea forget about what will be the end result for a while - several years. Now all you can do is your best under the present circumstances. There is no choice - while mistaken this will be seen through to a point that the international community can reflect upon and say "They did what they set out to do" That last statement may be loosely formulated as I expect the administration to waffle, but the fact is that the US can not under any circumstances be seen to have lost this one. (And while this point has been made before it does not seem to be contested.)
No sir. An (American) poster said, "its all about winning". What was agreed to is, yes indeed this does seem to be the Administration's point of view. (left to their own, the Military would probably withdraw, IMHO)islandboy said:
