If they had the same starting point but more cases now, then, buy definition, they have steeper curve. And in any model the number of new cases negatively depends on the proportion of people with immunity, so, they will have steeper curve on the way down too.
The Nordic Model
- Thread starter Insidious Von
- Start date
If they had the same starting point but more cases now, then, buy definition, they have steeper curve. And in any model the number of new cases negatively depends on the proportion of people with immunity, so, they will have steeper curve on the way down too.
**Posted this in the other Sweden focused thread - wanted to make sure it was shared here as well.
Interesting video I stumbled on. A couple living in Sweden speaking about their experience. He is from America and joined her in Sweden so he can give comparison to life in America to Sweden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh8l2LlvdHk
Sharing this simply to provide some perspective from actually within Sweden for discussion.
Take care everyone.
Interesting video I stumbled on. A couple living in Sweden speaking about their experience. He is from America and joined her in Sweden so he can give comparison to life in America to Sweden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh8l2LlvdHk
Sharing this simply to provide some perspective from actually within Sweden for discussion.
Take care everyone.
O
OnTheWayOut
Of course you found they did a great job in the video.
The video date is of April 18. The authors of the video falsely claims the curve is flattened in Sweden and uses the daily death numbers (not # of new cases which he should use) as evidence for that, that simply is none factual.
First the chart he is using in the video is fake they have gone over 100 daily deaths on the 7th, 9th, 14th, 15th, 16th and 18th of April and the chart he is posting doesn't reflect that.
If he is using the same method of a 14 day timeline which is very important in the fight against the Coronavirus, it clearly shows that the number of deaths have increased from the date of the video to the 14 days prior to it video date is April 18th.
When these videos of Sweden started popping up as a success story around the 12th of April where Sweden had a two day drop in numbers of new cases and new daily deaths only to have those number go drastically higher than what they were before I said you can not use a two day drop as evidence. It's very important to use a 14 day timeline which has a direct corelation to the fight against the Coronavirus.
When an author of a video says we are not experts listen to your healthcare professionals but. You should be wary of what they say specially when they are using false information in support of their opinions and feelings rather then the correct current data and the facts.
Another assumption that they make in the video is if you flatten the curve you're shifting the curve and there will be further spikes in the future. This is just an assumption and non factual. Evidence are with strict tracing measures prior to opening and further health measures after opening businesses up put into this place future spikes can be avoided.
They refer to South Korea and Taiwan as proof of this happening. Taiwan had a daily new cases increse to 22 on April 19th yes 22 cases in a single day. Had they taken a single minute to research what they were saying they would have found out the new cases in South Korea are so small right now as well. Less than 50/day for at least two weeks a country of 50+Mln people compared to Sweden of 10Mln.
One thing that gives me a great laugh is a lot of these ignorant and irrational people rather than using the current data and facts revolving the Coronavirus try using analogies that have nothing to do with the virus to justify their feelings, simply because if they were to use the correct and current data and facts it will dismiss their points.
Another point is these authors of the video made comparisons to the USA, South Korea, and Taiwan but they didn't know what is happening around their own country like the Nordic countries such as Denmark and Norway who are far better off in the fight against the Coronavirus. One should understand what type of a bias and what the reasoning behind these types of videos are.
Your picking apart of the video is accurate, no question there.
The question remains however is comparing their real world experience from within Sweden vs the media outlets portrayal of where Sweden is at - was my reason to share the video.
I strongly believe much of the news/media about Sweden is sensationalized and/or created to support a certain narrative of that media outlet, hence when I found a recent (yes now 6 days old but only 6 days old) posting from vloggers in Sweden I felt it was worth sharing here with my friends on TERB.
On a more current and accurate note, I look forward to your thoughts on this article that I did link in another Sweden related thread:
April 23 Article:
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/04/23/swe...ves-stay-flat/
Press conference referenced:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lang...hrome&ie=UTF-8
This article and press conference it covers to give it merit appears to indicate Sweden's healthcare system is managing well at this time, has a flatten curve and could be on the other side soon - while in a 'Phase II' level of economy and schools being open. Look forward to your comparison to the sources you have been referencing and perhaps links to compare as well.
Cheers
The purpose of the video was to show what the people in Sweden feel about their situation.
It was not to claim they know all the facts.
They clearly qualified this in the beginning by stating that they were not claiming to know everything and everybody should not take their words as gospel.
They were absolutely clear at the end that they are simply giving a sample of the way the Swedes feel, and that they could end up being factually completely wrong.
The purpose of the video was clearly not to claim to know all the facts, so it doesn`t make sense to say they are wrong.
The purpose of the video was to give a portrayal of the feelings of the Swedes. Who can say they failed in this purpose?
Even if some of the basis for their reasoning is questionable, it is what it is, and this was not the point of the video.
This was not a purported scientific study.
If Sweden is anything like Canada or any other country for that matter, one person's experience/opinion is completely different than everyone elses. Just check out the politics forum on Terb.
Unfortunately the problem is exactly what I posted in another thread.
There are a few posters who are for opening up businesses and opening them up ASAP, or people who are claiming Sweden as a "success" with the process of not closing non essential businesses down is far from the truth.
These people keep repeating any unsubstantiated aka non factual point they can get their hands on in an attempt to say we should open up businesses, and that is extremely dangerous thing to do.
Look at the clown who were protesting today in fron of Queen's park, although there was maybe 50 of them if that but these are the people that are a danger to the success Canada has had at fighting the Coronavirus.
As for the links you provided they are both dead but I seen that uncoverdc article and the title of the article is claiming the Sweden model shatters lock down model as curves stay flat is a already a sensationalized false narrative.
"Sweden Shatters Lock-down Model As Curves Stay Flat, Population Found Exposed But Not Sick; German MD Calls Corona Lock-down Measures “Collective Suicide Based On A Spook”
Reading an article that quotes the health official of Sweden saying
“The curve is very flat, really since the beginning of April and that’s very good news,” Tegnell said.
Meanwhile in reality on March 31st Sweden had 4435 confirmed cases with 180 deaths and today April 25 they have 18177 confirmed cases with 2192 deaths.
I read a few paragraphs but there is too much false information for me to read anything else.
I am much more interested in reading the current data and the facts revolving the Coronavirus than articles like that.
If you'd like to read an article that is recent, full of current data as well as facts here is an article regarding Sweden and what is happening.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidn...-over-as-coronavirus-cases-leap/#531b4858573f
Rather than providing truthful data they purposely misrepresented so much data if not all the data they provided to support their feelings and opinions, so in that purpose you are right they didn't fail.
Data and facts are extremely useful to understand what is happening and come to an educated guess of what will happen in the future in the fight against the Coronavirus. Feelings and opinions not so much.
That`s true, but in this case, there seems to be more protestors here on TERB than there are in all of Sweden.
The Swedes are not protesting.
Who the fuck is anybody else to criticize them?
I read the article.
The manipulation to a negative narrative is clear. Tegnell announces a record daily high of coronavirus cases. It's his job to do so. He previously insisted the spread of virus is slowing. Big picture he surely still believes that.
This article is a perfect example of the author linking these two separate activities to give the impression that Tegnell is somehow now saying he was wrong previously - without Tegnell actually saying that/quoting him saying that.
Thank you for the example of negative biased propaganda to add to the conversation.
Doggy should just stick to useless case-fatality rates.
That is what he does best.
But I am just an "uneducated fool" so what do I know?
Case fatality rates also known as the current death rate are very important to what is happening and the data that is combines, what is not important and useless is feelings or opinions.
There is a difference when one article has used false information and a false narrative as support to it's article and the other has used data and facts for support
"Sweden Shatters Lock-down Model As Curves Stay Flat"
False assumption
"Sweden Health Chief Admits ‘It’s Not Over’ As Coronavirus Cases Leap"
Facts
Basing ones article on facts and data rather than false statements or feelings is far more trust worthy. At least it is to me.
Regardless if that is negative or a positive narrative the article is actually becomes irrelevant as long as data and facts have been used to come to that conclusion. The article you posted from that propaganda website was just that a propaganda article with misleading and false facts to promote and publicize a specific view, meanwhile the other article is full of data and facts to support the article which cannot be categorized as propoganda.
The sharing of articles, and videos with false facts, datas to support it's point of view makes no difference to the realities in the fight against the Coronavirus.
O
OnTheWayOut
It was an interesting video but they base the whole premise on their idea of some sort of utopian state in Sweden with no corruption. Their trust in government will pull them through these dark times .... yeah, right. Go wash your hands some more kiddies.
As noted by others, after that video was made Sweden has had some rough patches and only time will tell if their relaxed approach will prove better in the long run. I wish no harm to anyone and hope they are right. These are typical young idealistic kids with socialist viewpoints that do not have enough life experience to understand some of the conclusions they come up with.
They realize that this is so.
At the end, they even say they may end up looking back and seeing that they were completely wrong.
It was simply a sample of the mindset of a couple of average people living in Sweden, nothing more, nothing less.
You have a fine attitude.
I get the sense that some people want to see massive deaths in Sweden so they can come onto TERB and gloat.
