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The influence of Jewish lobby groups

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Here's the conclusion from IPCRI's report in it's entirety
http://www.ipcri.org/files/4&9report.pdf


Some of the illustrations and references,
however, are vague in their representations and in the message they carry or try to
convey, especially as they relate to the historical, geographic and cultural aspects of the
region. In particular, one notices an element of ambiguity in the concept of the
“homeland” and in the presentation of the different types of maps.
The review of the content of the 4th and 9th grade textbooks revealed numerous
instances that introduce and promote the universal and religious values and concepts of
respect of other cultures, religions, and ethnic groups, peace, human rights, freedom of
speech, justice, compassion, diversity, plurality, tolerance, respect of law, and
environmental awareness. However, several other sensitive issues of great importance to
the present and future of the region are briefly discussed, ignored or bypassed (e.g., the
Oslo Accords, recognition of and peace with Israel, political tolerance and open
denouncement of violence, joint and cooperative ventures in the economic, medical,
academic, environmental domains). In addition, a number of historical events are
presented from a single perspective rendering some accounts questionable regarding their
historical accuracy.

The concept of Jihad in both its militant and peaceful dimensions is highlighted in
a good number of textbooks with more focus given to the former (historically and in
present-day contexts). The textbooks include a large number of direct and indirect
references to martyrdom interwoven, in several instances, with the concepts of defending and liberating the homeland. In the context of today’s political reality serious questions
are raised regarding the lessons pupils are being directed towards, given that martyrdom
is directly linked to the Palestinian struggle against Israel.

The new curriculum, reflected in the recently published textbooks, cannot be
described as a war curriculum. Neither is it a peace curriculum. The textbooks do not
contain calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. However, students are exposed to
texts that promote the religious and national duty of loving and defending the homeland
and the Palestinian culture.

The textbooks do not openly promote violence and hatred and do not openly
preach amity and concord. They include references that point to the need to respect
international legitimacy (UN resolutions and other internationally reached agreements).
They also include texts that encourage students to make sacrifices for their homeland,
nation, and religion, without discussion any limitations to those sacrifices.

Peace as a theme is addressed in a number of religious, social and political
references and contexts. For example, the textbooks contain passages that warn students
of the dangers of conflict and wars. They are encouraged, instead, to resort to peaceful
negotiation, dialogue, and other peaceful and constructive forms of conflict resolution.
The texts, however, fail to spell out the need to apply these values and practices to the
Arab-Israeli conflict.

Israel, as a sovereign state in the political and geographic sense is not clearly or
adequately represented in the new textbooks. Only two direct references are made to the
“State of Israel” while multiple indirect references are made to it as a political and
geographic entity in the form of “the Jewish State,” “the Jewish entity,” and “the Jewish
State.”

As far as Jews and Israelis are concerned, the textbooks are critical of Israel’s
policies and practices (killing, confiscating land, imprisoning Palestinians, demolishing
homes, uprooting trees, confiscating land, and building settlements) and of the Zionist
movement’s principles and teachings.
Along the same line, although the textbooks are replete with references to the
principles and values of reconciliation, compassion, religious and political tolerance, they
fail to extend these principles and concepts to include Jews and the State of Israel.

The new textbooks strive to present and create a strong sense of Palestinian, Arab
and Muslim identity. This dominates the treatment of history. Thus, efforts are made to
demonstrate a continuing Arab presence in Palestine. In the process, they tend to treat
history in a selective fashion. For example, though they do not deny a Jewish presence in
and connection to the Holy Land, they do not mention it.
In addition, one notices an
effort to present ancient Canaanites and Jebusites as Arab or that Arabs are the
descendents of the two ancient civilizations. Other examples of the selective nature of
history include the brief and peripheral treatment of major historical events in the region
and the presentation of a narrow account of national and regional historical events.
Except for Jewish presence at the end of the 19th century and the first half of the
20th century, the textbooks do not treat Jewish history in any serious manner. However, it
is worth noting in this context that the history introduced in the 4th and 9th grades is
mostly the modern and contemporary Arab history which precludes any opportunity to
address such issues.
The new textbooks are also generally conceived within an Islamic framework.
Christian, and to a larger extent, Jewish traditions and viewpoints are ignored, especially
in historical and cultural contexts. In instances that have to do with Muslim-Jewish and
Muslim-Christian relations in historical contexts, the textbooks clearly take the point of
view of the Islamic tradition.
Also, and in the process of talking about holy sites in the Holy Land, the
textbooks fail to mention or include Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem and the rest of
historical Palestine.
References, however, are made to sites holy in the Jewish tradition
but without making the connection clear or highlighting their significance to the
followers of the Jewish faith.
Concepts that relate to historical and political Palestine, the “homeland,”
“liberation of the homeland,” “the entire national soil,” among others, are not clearly
presented. Although these concepts run across the curriculum, no attempt is made to
clarify them in a way that dispels any suggestion of an attempt to preach a political
philosophy of “greater Palestine.” The use of ambiguous terminology, although with less
frequency than observed in earlier generations of textbooks (produced in 1994 and
between the years 2000-2003), is still observed in the recently published textbooks.
Along the same lines, the new textbooks continue the practice of presenting, as
Palestinian, cities, sites, and geographic regions inside the State of Israel alongside cities
and sites in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
Again, and in spite of the fact that the
prefaces in the textbooks specifically point to the “two wings of the homeland” (the West
Bank and the Gaza strip), no attempt is made to make this pronouncement clear in the
body of the textbooks.
The name “Israel” does not appear on any of the maps included in the textbooks.
The territory of “the State of Israel” is shown on the maps without any label.
The name
“Palestine” appears on some of the extended maps (e.g., maps of the region, greater
Middle East, the Arab world, the world). When a map representing the entire “historical
Palestine” is introduced, no labels are affixed. In almost all the maps, the administrative
areas of the Palestinian authority are contoured (again without labels). Conspicuously
absent are political maps that reflect the geographic and political realities of post-1947
partition and post- 1967 War.
From a pedagogic standpoint, one notices that history teaching is mostly limited
to transmission of information and to presenting a narrow perspective of historical events.

No serious attempts are made to present history as “investigation” and to expose students
to multiple perspectives that present different historical narratives.
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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basketcase said:
Here's the conclusion from IPCRI's report in it's entirety (forgive the pdf formatting)

Some of the illustrations and references,
however, are vague in their representations and in the message they carry or try to
convey, especially as they relate to the historical, geographic and cultural aspects of the
region. In particular, one notices an element of ambiguity in the concept of the
“homeland” and in the presentation of the different types of maps.
The review of the content of the 4th and 9th grade textbooks revealed numerous
instances that introduce and promote the universal and religious values and concepts of
respect of other cultures, religions, and ethnic groups, peace, human rights, freedom of
speech, justice, compassion, diversity, plurality, tolerance, respect of law, and
environmental awareness. However, several other sensitive issues of great importance to
the present and future of the region are briefly discussed, ignored or bypassed (e.g., the
Oslo Accords, recognition of and peace with Israel, political tolerance and open
denouncement of violence, joint and cooperative ventures in the economic, medical,
academic, environmental domains). In addition, a number of historical events are
presented from a single perspective rendering some accounts questionable regarding their
historical accuracy.
The concept of Jihad in both its militant and peaceful dimensions is highlighted in
a good number of textbooks with more focus given to the former (historically and in
present-day contexts). The textbooks include a large number of direct and indirect
references to martyrdom interwoven, in several instances, with the concepts of defending and liberating the homeland. In the context of today’s political reality serious questions
are raised regarding the lessons pupils are being directed towards, given that martyrdom
is directly linked to the Palestinian struggle against Israel.
The new curriculum, reflected in the recently published textbooks, cannot be
described as a war curriculum. Neither is it a peace curriculum. The textbooks do not
contain calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. However, students are exposed to
texts that promote the religious and national duty of loving and defending the homeland
and the Palestinian culture.
The new curriculum, reflected in the recently published textbooks, cannot be
described as a war curriculum. Neither is it a peace curriculum. The textbooks do not
contain calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. However, students are exposed to
texts that promote the religious and national duty of loving and defending the homeland
and the Palestinian culture.
The textbooks do not openly promote violence and hatred and do not openly
preach amity and concord. They include references that point to the need to respect
international legitimacy (UN resolutions and other internationally reached agreements).
They also include texts that encourage students to make sacrifices for their homeland,
nation, and religion, without discussion any limitations to those sacrifices.
Peace as a theme is addressed in a number of religious, social and political
references and contexts. For example, the textbooks contain passages that warn students
of the dangers of conflict and wars. They are encouraged, instead, to resort to peaceful
negotiation, dialogue, and other peaceful and constructive forms of conflict resolution.
The texts, however, fail to spell out the need to apply these values and practices to the
Arab-Israeli conflict.
Israel, as a sovereign state in the political and geographic sense is not clearly or
adequately represented in the new textbooks. Only two direct references are made to the
“State of Israel” while multiple indirect references are made to it as a political and
geographic entity in the form of “the Jewish State,” “the Jewish entity,” and “the Jewish
State.”
As far as Jews and Israelis are concerned, the textbooks are critical of Israel’s
policies and practices (killing, confiscating land, imprisoning Palestinians, demolishing
homes, uprooting trees, confiscating land, and building settlements) and of the Zionist
movement’s principles and teachings.
Along the same line, although the textbooks are replete with references to the
principles and values of reconciliation, compassion, religious and political tolerance, they
fail to extend these principles and concepts to include Jews and the State of Israel.
The new textbooks strive to present and create a strong sense of Palestinian, Arab
and Muslim identity. This dominates the treatment of history. Thus, efforts are made to
demonstrate a continuing Arab presence in Palestine. In the process, they tend to treat
history in a selective fashion. For example, though they do not deny a Jewish presence in
and connection to the Holy Land, they do not mention it. In addition, one notices an
effort to present ancient Canaanites and Jebusites as Arab or that Arabs are the
descendents of the two ancient civilizations. Other examples of the selective nature of
history include the brief and peripheral treatment of major historical events in the region
and the presentation of a narrow account of national and regional historical events.
Except for Jewish presence at the end of the 19th century and the first half of the
20th century, the textbooks do not treat Jewish history in any serious manner. However, it
is worth noting in this context that the history introduced in the 4th and 9th grades is
mostly the modern and contemporary Arab history which precludes any opportunity to
address such issues.
The new textbooks are also generally conceived within an Islamic framework.
Christian, and to a larger extent, Jewish traditions and viewpoints are ignored, especially
in historical and cultural contexts. In instances that have to do with Muslim-Jewish and
Muslim-Christian relations in historical contexts, the textbooks clearly take the point of
view of the Islamic tradition.
Also, and in the process of talking about holy sites in the Holy Land, the
textbooks fail to mention or include Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem and the rest of
historical Palestine. References, however, are made to sites holy in the Jewish tradition
but without making the connection clear or highlighting their significance to the
followers of the Jewish faith.
Concepts that relate to historical and political Palestine, the “homeland,”
“liberation of the homeland,” “the entire national soil,” among others, are not clearly
presented. Although these concepts run across the curriculum, no attempt is made to
clarify them in a way that dispels any suggestion of an attempt to preach a political
philosophy of “greater Palestine.” The use of ambiguous terminology, although with less
frequency than observed in earlier generations of textbooks (produced in 1994 and
between the years 2000-2003), is still observed in the recently published textbooks.
Along the same lines, the new textbooks continue the practice of presenting, as
Palestinian, cities, sites, and geographic regions inside the State of Israel alongside cities
and sites in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Again, and in spite of the fact that the
prefaces in the textbooks specifically point to the “two wings of the homeland” (the West
Bank and the Gaza strip), no attempt is made to make this pronouncement clear in the
body of the textbooks.
The name “Israel” does not appear on any of the maps included in the textbooks.
The territory of “the State of Israel” is shown on the maps without any label. The name
“Palestine” appears on some of the extended maps (e.g., maps of the region, greater
Middle East, the Arab world, the world). When a map representing the entire “historical
Palestine” is introduced, no labels are affixed. In almost all the maps, the administrative
areas of the Palestinian authority are contoured (again without labels). Conspicuously
absent are political maps that reflect the geographic and political realities of post-1947
partition and post- 1967 War.
From a pedagogic standpoint, one notices that history teaching is mostly limited
to transmission of information and to presenting a narrow perspective of historical events.
No serious attempts are made to present history as “investigation” and to expose students
to multiple perspectives that present different historical narratives.
You need to explain yourself here. You've been railing that anything that does not deal with the current textbooks is irrelevant.

Now, you decide to change your goal lines and provide a document from
2004.

Which one is it? Can you please get it together?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Besides this report showing the flaws in the Palestinian education system, it also belies the claim that:

gryfin said:
...
"Then where do persistent reports of incitement in Palestinian textbooks come from? Virtually all can be traced back to the work of a single organization, the “Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace.” ...
Plenty of independent groups, including some with unimpeachable records, have found the same things yet you still deny it.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,063
6,588
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gryfin said:
basketcase said:
Here's the conclusion from IPCRI's report in it's entirety (forgive the pdf formatting)



You need to explain yourself here. You've been railing that anything that does not deal with the current textbooks is irrelevant.

Now, you decide to change your goal lines and provide a document from
2004.

Which one is it? Can you please get it together?
This http://www.ipcri.org/files/4&9report.pdf is on the current textbooks. Maybe actually looking at the reports might help. Can you try to disprove anything in them?

as is
http://www.pmw.org.il/BookReport_Eng.pdf?
http://www.gei.de/fileadmin/bilder/pdf/Projekte/palest02.pdf
http://www.impact-se.org/docs/reports/PA/Hamas2008.pdf

You have been able to provide any countering evidence besides smears of Marcus.
 

gryfin

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You've made enough amateurish errors that we need to get things defined before you go off on another idiotic bender.

I'll repeat again.

You need to explain yourself here. You've been railing that anything that does not deal with the current textbooks is irrelevant.

Now, you decide to change your goal lines and provide a document from
2004.

Which one is it? Can you please get it together?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Please try to actually prove something here. Your spinning does nothing to deflect the conclusions of reports from four independent organizations on the Palestinian textbooks.

As usual, instead of arguing facts, you just try and play ontological games.


Boring
 

gryfin

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basketcase said:
Please try to actually prove something here. Your spinning does nothing to deflect the conclusions of reports from four independent organizations on the Palestinian textbooks.

As usual, instead of arguing facts, you just try and play ontological games.


Boring
You may find accuracy boring but it's essential. Now, go ahead and explain which goal line you are using now because it's contradictory at the moment.

Also, what about PRISM?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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This might be the victory you are looking for (and the only victory you can get) but unless you actually challenge the content of the reports from four independent organizations, there is no point in responding to your pathetic jibes.

Put up or shut up.


(p.s. apologies to all those skimming through a few pages of me trying to get gryf to actually counter these allegations, no matter how he tries to wiggle his way out of it and find things that he can actually debate. Now he's down to intentional obtuseness)
 

gryfin

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basketcase said:
This might be the victory you are looking for (and the only victory you can get) but unless you actually challenge the content of the reports from four independent organizations, there is no point in responding to your pathetic jibes.

Put up or shut up.


(p.s. apologies to all those skimming through a few pages of me trying to get gryf to actually counter these allegations, no matter how he tries to wiggle his way out of it and find things that he can actually debate. Now he's down to intentional obtuseness)
Since when is defining what you mean some sort of gargantuan challenge. It's abundantly clear that you are suddenly using different goal lines - including one that you were whining about repeatedly.

I'd love to proceed but it's a simple question of you defining your goal lines and sticking to them.

Let's get past this and your posting errors and continue.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Here's a new video for Gryfin to ignore. Don't worry, it's not from MEMRI or PMW but from a source that he seems to find acceptable.

Hamas Summer Camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1006683.html

What's amazing is that Hamas decided that this was the face that it wanted to present to the world.

It contains some great lines (as kids looking as young as 8 or so are trained to hate and kill)

"Yes I Ninja...kill...slaughter....blow up...charge"
"We want students to leave her with love and patience for others...but not toward those who occupy their land, not to those who steal their holy places..."(ignore the fact that Al Aqsa Mosque is under complete Palestinian control)
"and say aloud no, no to the Americans"
"because this land belongs to us and no one else" (I am sure that they mean just Gaza and West Bank right?)
"and if we loved the Jews" (notice, it's not Israel but Jews)

Great stuff from kids who aren't being indoctrinated.





Oh yeah, still waiting for gryf to refute the reports, especially the ones from IPCRI and the GEI which even he has not found a way to smear.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Well, it's been more than a day and gryf has yet to step up (and we know he's posted in other threads). I guess he's too busy doing his own 'original research.'
 

gryfin

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basketcase said:
Well, it's been more than a day and gryf has yet to step up (and we know he's posted in other threads). I guess he's too busy doing his own 'original research.'
We are all waiting for you to define your goal lines after the debacle we've endured with your bogus sites, bogus links, and ever changing standards.
 

gryfin

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basketcase said:
gryfin said:
This http://www.ipcri.org/files/4&9report.pdf is on the current textbooks. Maybe actually looking at the reports might help. Can you try to disprove anything in them?

as is
http://www.pmw.org.il/BookReport_Eng.pdf?
http://www.gei.de/fileadmin/bilder/pdf/Projekte/palest02.pdf
http://www.impact-se.org/docs/reports/PA/Hamas2008.pdf

You have been able to provide any countering evidence besides smears of Marcus.
You know, I thought I'd cut you some slack but guess what? I discovered you were back up to your old creepy habits again.

First of all, the first link and the third links are both Itamar Marcus sites so they are not worth anything.

The second has the patina of some credibility but I kept wondering why there was no cover page, credits, or any kind of stamp from an academic institution. And then when I traced back the URL it never lead to a listing at that institution.

So, lo and behold, what do I find when I do a search elsewhere? The document that you posted was in fact a MEMRI publication.

http://www.memri.org/book/MEMRI_Book_PGS.pdf

This version has a cover page. What's very interesting is the credit that the author (Götz Nordbruch) gives:

"The author wants to express his thanks to several individuals
without whom this publication could not have been written.
In MEMRI’s Jerusalem office, Yotam Feldner, Aluma Solnick,
and Yael Yehoshua translated the Palestinian textbooks from
Arabic, and Angi Jacobs participated in the manuscript’s
preparation. In MEMRI’s Washington, D.C., office, Steven
Stalinsky, Allan Polak, and Jan Cleaver assisted in the
various stages of this project, ultimately turning it into a
book. Cheryl Weissman and Karen Glass edited the final
manuscript."

What a hoot this is...MEMRI does all the translating for him.

MEMRI, like CAMERA and PMW or any other other front web sites for right wing Israel nuts intimately connected with the Israeli government.

And you wonder why you have no credibility.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,063
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gryfin said:
basketcase said:
...
The second has the patina of some credibility but I kept wondering why there was no cover page, credits, or any kind of stamp from an academic institution. And then when I traced back the URL it never lead to a listing at that institution.
I guess the ability to read still escapes you. The link to the organization where the reports are listed was given in a previous post.
http://www.gei.de/index.php?id=schulbuchprojek_israel_palestina&L=1



So, lo and behold, what do I find when I do a search elsewhere? The document that you posted was in fact a MEMRI publication.
Actually the same author, not the same report. The one you mention was published in 2002 the other was published in 2004 (and he has published others at gei since (for the German speakers).


And as usual, you have done NOTHING to refute the content of the reports

Smearing the authors contributes nothing.

I also wonder why you have yet again ignored this report.
http://www.ipcri.org/files/4&9report.pdf
Can't you find some way to smear those authors too?


You are a complete joke.


And where is your comment on the peace loving summer camp?
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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basketcase said:
gryfin said:
I also wonder why you have yet again ignored this report.
http://www.ipcri.org/files/4&9report.pdf
Can't you find some way to smear those authors too?
You need to define your goal lines. In many of your posts you said that anything other than the current textbooks were irrelevant.

Now you are saying that's not the case and that 2004 is acceptable.

Which one is it? If you decided to abide by your own standards, this thread would be measurably shorter.

I think it should be clear to you now that you have to define your goal lines.
 

gryfin

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basketcase said:
gryfin said:
And where is your comment on the peace loving summer camp?
That was good for a laugh.

What an amazing stroke of luck that Hamas would hold a summer camp where the kids chanted in perfect English while reciting comical prose.

Oh yeah...that's legitimate.

By the way..did the article give the source of the tape and who provided the translation?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts