The Hoodie

[nuprin001]

For Zimmerman to be charged, one has to believe this:

Zimmerman is smart enough to have put together this story, gotten a bump on the back of his head somehow, and put this all together in the 15-20 minutes this all went down.

Zimmerman is a man who couldn't finish a 2 year Art degree from a really bad junior college in under 9 years. He's not smart enough to have pulled this off if this was some kind of assassination plan.

Zimmerman did something stupid. He followed a kid he was suspicious of. That's it. That's not illegal. Then (according to Zimmerman's story) the Martin did something kind of stupid: he jumped a guy who was following him. One really stupid thing, one stupid-but-understandable thing, and now Martin is dead and Zimmerman is fucked.

There is no Iago in this play. Just Othello and Desdemona. Both wrong, if only of not being smart enough to avoid the situation. And you're sitting there, blaming Othello. Othello deserves plenty of criticism, no doubt. But legally, unless some SERIOUS evidence refutes his story that Martin jumped him, Zimmerman is clear. That said, don't be surprised if he's charged and convicted anyway, thanks to the emotional content of this case.

 

[Babypowder]

Ok. Where is it? What do you believe Zimmerman did that was criminal in the state of Florida, and where is the evidence to back it up?

That he followed a kid? When you get down to it, that was Zimmerman's big mistake: HE FOLLOWED A KID HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF. Is there ANY evidence that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman? Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that Martin did jump Zimmerman and if Martin jumped Zimmerman because he was scared because some dude was following him in the dark, I wouldn't blame Martin at all. That's not something I'd do, but I can understand it. Martin was (according to his girlfriend) scared and nervous. When some people are scared and nervous, they fight back.

BTW, that's also part of Florida's Stand Your Ground law. And if Martin had turned the gun on Zimmerman, he'd be eligible for the protection of that law just as Zimmerman is. Keep that in mind.

So, do you believe Martin jumped Zimmerman? If not, do you have any proof that he didn't jump Zimmerman? Because if you don't have any proof, THEN THERE IS NO CRIMINAL CASE AND NO PROBABLE CAUSE. And I've been researching this case: there is no evidence that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, and Zimmerman had a bump on his head from something.

So, where is your probable cause to arrest Zimmerman? Or are you just a sheep


You've stated the probable cause exists. You have not pointed it out. Please correct that.

wow what world do you live in really?

how many times have i said the 911 calls clearly state that he was following him. it doesnt matter if he is suspisious or not he is not an LEO. and the 911 dispatcher clearly advised him not to follow him. STAND YOUR GROUND DOESN'T FLY WHEN YOU FOLLOW SOMEONE THATS UNARMED AFTER 911 CLEARLY ADVISES YOU NOT TO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

you're really dense

 

[nuprin001]

wow what world do you live in really?

how many times have i said the 911 calls clearly state that he was following him. it doesnt matter if he is suspisious or not he is not an LEO. and the 911 dispatcher clearly advised him not to follow him. STAND YOUR GROUND DOESN'T FLY WHEN YOU FOLLOW SOMEONE THATS UNARMED AFTER 911 CLEARLY ADVISES YOU NOT TO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

you're really dense

You cannot possibly be this stupid.

Any dimestore lawyer could have this case tossed out in 5 minutes. You are concentrating on legal irrelevancies. The 911 call doesn't matter. The girlfriend's call doesn't matter. If anything, the girlfriend call supports Zimmerman's story because if Martin was nervous and aware of Zimmerman, then there's a better chance that Martin jumped Zimmerman. If the girlfriend were trying to bury Zimmerman legally, she would have lied (if it would have been a lie) and said her boyfriend wasn't aware he was being followed.

IF MARTIN JUMPED ZIMMERMAN, ZIMMERMAN HAD THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF. So, did Martin jump Zimmerman? The why, the where, the what was going on leading up to that point are legally irrelevant. If Martin jumped Zimmerman, and Zimmerman claims he felt his life was threatened, then Zimmerman killing Martin was legally self defense.

Do. You. Believe. That. Martin. Jumped. Zimmerman? Are you aware of any evidence whatsoever that proves Martin didn't jump Zimmerman? Everything else is emotionalist bullshit that has no immediate relevance to the central issue: did Zimmerman commit a crime?

Now, Martin's family can sue the bejeesus out of Zimmerman for wrongful death in a civil court. There's plenty of evidence for a civil case. Civil cases are judged in a completely different way than criminal cases. But for a criminal case the pivot issue is whether Martin jumped Zimmerman or not. Yes or no on that, Babypowder, and if not do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

 

[Babypowder]

The 911 call doesn't matter.

you are officially an idiot.


of course that call matters. it shows that he kid was running and zimmerman was following after him after clear instructions from 911 not to. how do you jump someone you are running from? that referred to him as a "fucking coon" for that matter..

if your life is threatened you dont run after the person running from you.



you dum fuck

its like arguing with a dead jelly fish.

 

[nuprin001]

you are officially an idiot.


of course that call matters. it shows that he kid was running and zimmerman was following after him after clear instructions from 911 not to. how do you jump someone you are running from? that referred to him as a "fucking coon" for that matter..

1.) At 1:53, you might interpret that as "fucking coons". You could also interpret that as "fucking cops", "fucking clothes" or any of a dozen other things.
2.) Again, 911 has no power to tell Zimmerman (or any of us) what to do. They're not cops. And even cops can't tell you where you can or cannot go in situations like that. Those instructions had no power of law.
3.) And again, they're irrelevant. Unless you can prove that's what Zimmerman said, nothing in the above matters whatsoever. And what he said is open to interpretation enough that Zimmerman simply claiming he was saying something else is enough to dismiss its relevancy.

if your life is threatened you dont run after the person running from you.

you dum fuck

Yes. Because they call it the "flight or flight" response, not the "fight or flight" response, right?

If Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, how did Zimmerman get the bump on his head? Remember the entire "innocent until proven guilty" business? In this situation, that's in Zimmerman's favor. The prosecution has to PROVE that Zimmerman wasn't jumped by Martin. Nothing in the public domain has done jack shit to prove that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, and without that Zimmerman walks unless the publicity turns things against him.

I'M NOT SAYING I THINK ZIMMERMAN IS INNOCENT. Read everything I've said. Note the conditionals I applied to everything. But when you get down to it, unless you can prove in a court of law that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman and that Zimmerman didn't fear for his life, then there is no case to be made, legally. Could Zimmerman have concocted all of this and then covered it all up? Theoretically, yes. Could he have gotten help from the PD? Theoretically, sure. And theoretically there could have been some vast conspiracy to kill this Martin kid. But if so, there isn't any evidence of it. There isn't a case. Period. If you really think differently, you are as ignorant of the law as it is possible to be in the 21st century.

You feel bad for Martin. Good for you. But you feel so bad for the kid that you wish and wish and wish and want that the dude who everybody knows pulled the trigger on the gun that killed him goes to jail for this. And there isn't a legal case for it. There just isn't. If Martin jumped Zimmerman, Zimmerman goes free. And you don't have any evidence that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman except the retarded "you don't jump someone when you're running for your life" bullshit, which is the weakest thing you've said in a long time. And that's saying something.

 

[Babypowder]

you are making up the dumbest excuses for this but what i said is weak? you are clearly an invalid.

DURRP he must have jumped him with his skittles and 1 dollar Arizona ice tea DUUURRRP. while on the phone with his girlfriend DURRRP. that has to be it. the 911 calls dont mean any thing DURRRP. you're a fucking moron. im done. you are clearly reaching for fantasy bs which makes no sense.

you think that its reasonable for someone thats 100 lbs lighter 10 younger and unarmed to be on the attack . but im lying to my self. riiight.



but you keep being afraid of kids with hoodies. i hope that works out for you.

you Pantophobic vagina.

 

[GG2]

1.) At 1:53, you might interpret that as "fucking coons". You could also interpret that as "fucking cops", "fucking clothes" or any of a dozen other things.
2.) Again, 911 has no power to tell Zimmerman (or any of us) what to do. They're not cops. And even cops can't tell you where you can or cannot go in situations like that. Those instructions had no power of law.
3.) And again, they're irrelevant. Unless you can prove that's what Zimmerman said, nothing in the above matters whatsoever. And what he said is open to interpretation enough that Zimmerman simply claiming he was saying something else is enough to dismiss its relevancy.



Yes. Because they call it the "flight or flight" response, not the "fight or flight" response, right?

If Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, how did Zimmerman get the bump on his head? Remember the entire "innocent until proven guilty" business? In this situation, that's in Zimmerman's favor. The prosecution has to PROVE that Zimmerman wasn't jumped by Martin. Nothing in the public domain has done jack shit to prove that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, and without that Zimmerman walks unless the publicity turns things against him.

I'M NOT SAYING I THINK ZIMMERMAN IS INNOCENT. Read everything I've said. Note the conditionals I applied to everything. But when you get down to it, unless you can prove in a court of law that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman and that Zimmerman didn't fear for his life, then there is no case to be made, legally. Could Zimmerman have concocted all of this and then covered it all up? Theoretically, yes. Could he have gotten help from the PD? Theoretically, sure. And theoretically there could have been some vast conspiracy to kill this Martin kid. But if so, there isn't any evidence of it. There isn't a case. Period. If you really think differently, you are as ignorant of the law as it is possible to be in the 21st century.

You feel bad for Martin. Good for you. But you feel so bad for the kid that you wish and wish and wish and want that the dude who everybody knows pulled the trigger on the gun that killed him goes to jail for this. And there isn't a legal case for it. There just isn't. If Martin jumped Zimmerman, Zimmerman goes free. And you don't have any evidence that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman except the retarded "you don't jump someone when you're running for your life" bullshit, which is the weakest thing you've said in a long time. And that's saying something.

I don't think Zimmerman concocted any story. I believe there was an argument and fisticuffs after Zimmerman approached, questioned, and probably assaulted the kid who just wanted to go home. If a stranger is following you, badgering you, and quite possibly assaulting you, you're going to fight back. Martin came out on top in the battle of fists with the out-of-shape 28 year old, but ultimately lost to Zimmerman's firearm.

 

[GG2]

In other news, two black teens apparently set a 13 year old white kid on fire.
http://fox4kc.com/2012/02/28/boy-set-on-fire-by-teens-in-east-side-neighborhood/

 

[Smash]

Poor kid. Did anyone every stop to think about what was going in Trayvon's mind at the time, fear?
He went to the store to buy candy for his brother and then watch the NBA All Star game on tv.

So this 140lb 17 year old kid is walking home in the rain with candy in his pocket and an Iced Tea not bothering anyone. Then he notices this strange man starring at him talking on his phone. This 240lb man continues starring at him, talking on his cell and looking nervous/anxious/suspicious. The kid enters his housing complex and notices the 240lb man running after him. He doesn't identify himself as police (becuz he wasn't a cop) but starts asking him all kinds of questions in a very hostile/aggressive manner... The kid probably got scared since he didn't know this dude and attempted to go to his house for protection. For all Trayvon knew Zimmerman could have been trying to abduct/rob him and feared for his life. Really, wouldn't you if you were 17 and approached in a hostile manner by a 240lb 28 year big old man? I would think that this dude is on drugs or something and be terrified.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman tried to grab this kid thinking that he was going to be a hero and hold him until the cops arrived. So now this kid is being assaulted by this 240lb 28yo stranger and possibly in a scrap for his life. How scared must this kid of been knowing that he was so close to home and he might get harmed/killed by this stranger with a gun FOR NO REASON?

My heart goes out to his family becuz if this was my son and I felt how scared he was and screaming for help and I wasn't there to protect him it would be eating me up inside bad.

R.I.P Tray
Im sorry this happened to you and this gunnut idiot racist ended your life.

 

[babemagnet]

Poor kid. Did anyone every stop to think about what was going in Trayvon's mind at the time, fear?
He went to the store to buy candy for his brother and then watch the NBA All Star game on tv.


My heart goes out to his family becuz if this was my son and I felt how scared he was and screaming for help and I wasn't there to protect him it would be eating me up inside bad.

R.I.P Tray
Im sorry this happened to you and this gunnut idiot racist ended your life.

I don't know all the facts. However what I have heard reported is that Zimmerman made 46 911 calls reporting on suspicious "black" youths in the past year. He was by the record a wannabe cop.He followed a kid in his SUV who was on foot, minding his own business. He was told not to follow the kid by the police dispatcher. He ignored that advice and confronted the kid. I heard the screams of distress. Judging from the "smell" of it, I highly doubt that Trayvon was doing anything wrong. Seems like the way the story is playing out, he was victimized and murdered.
Of course I may be wrong, but looking at his face, from the pics, he seemed to be a nice kid.

 

[Smash]

The reason 911 operators ALWAYS instruct you to NOT PURSUE the individual is becuz if this happens there will be an altercation one way or another. They know that we are not trained to handle such matters and it will provoke a physical confrontation almost guaranteed..

Example:
I am walking home minding my own business not doing anything wrong and I see this large man in street cloths starring me down with his eyes fixed on me (right away red flag goes up Jason Bourne style)

Then I see him running after me then being aggressive and hostile asking me all these questions that's really none of his fcuking business.

This is where I tell him to fcuk off and stay away from me then I try to get pass him to get home.
At this point if he grabs, tackles or touches me now I go into "fear for my life" mode and defend myself and it will get messy.

This is why dispatchers instruct the callers to stay back and await police, do not pursue.
Im sure most of these calls are mistaken identity or a misunderstanding so its best that a LEO handle the situation instead of a wannabe cop gunnut.

Do not pursue and wait for the police to arrive.

 

[Scarey]

The Answer

One person touched on how the conversation went.This gentleman had been robbed 7 times in the last 12 years he has been in business(not sure i'd stay in the business but anywho) .In all but one case the thief came in with Hoodie up to try and avoid the store owners cameras and avoid detection.

He felt that the Miami Heat promoted this "style" as something Hip and to be emulated and probably would be.It could cause more trouble then the sentiment was worth.

 

[basketcase]

That is an unfair comparison

There are occasions where someone has used a hoodie to hide their identity while commiting a crime. Store owners are often uncomfortable when hooded customers enter the store because there is a history there. Unfortunately the hoodie causes some people to fear for their safety.
....

As I posted in another thread, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 100% of people under 50 own some kind of hooded shirt or jacket of some sort.


p.s. In cold or rainy weather I routinely walk into my neighbourhood convenience store with my hoodie up and don't seem to get any flack for it.

 

[basketcase]

OK. Try crossing the border wearing a hoodie. See how it goes.

I did it 2 weeks ago; no problems either way.

 

[basketcase]

In other news, two black teens apparently set a 13 year old white kid on fire.
http://fox4kc.com/2012/02/28/boy-set-on-fire-by-teens-in-east-side-neighborhood/

And? Was the white kid wearing a hoodie or is this an attempt to portray blacks as bad and therefore Martin as deserving to die?

 

[scarlet6969]

i think what people are failing to realize in this thread that the states is much different then here... and alot more dangerous. What may be considered petty or silly here is a grim and dangerous reality there. there is much more gang related crime, poverty, gun crime etc then here so i don't think its fair to make assumptions when you don't live there

 

[babemagnet]

i think what people are failing to realize in this thread that the states is much different then here... and alot more dangerous. What may be considered petty or silly here is a grim and dangerous reality there. there is much more gang related crime, poverty, gun crime etc then here so i don't think its fair to make assumptions when you don't live there

Seems you are failing to grasp that Zimmerman who was in his car stalked the kid who was on foot.Got out of his car to interfere with the kid,who was just walking and shot him, claiming self defense against an unarmed kid he chose to go out of his way to confront.

 

[scarlet6969]

oh ok then thats totally wrong i wasnt sure of the whole story thnx for clarifying

 

[nuprin001]

So.......

Anybody read the police report, now that it's out? Kind of puts a different slant on things, eh?


Fucking idiots, jumping to conclusions before the facts are out.
1.) Treyvon wasn't "a good kid". He was suspended from school. For fighting. That's why he was hanging out in that apartment complex (it wasn't a "gated community": it was a shitty apartment complex that had a gate). He wasn't going to school the next day, so he was hanging out at his dad's girlfriend's place with his dad.
2.) Zimmerman, according to the report, confronted Treyvon, then walked away from Treyvon when Treyvon cold-cocked him from behind and then started beating the crap out of him. At which point, afraid for his life and after repeated attempts to get help (by yelling "help, help", which is the "help, help" heard on the 911 calls), shot Treyvon in self defense.

Now, I'm not saying everything Zimmerman said was true. But if he made up that story, he came up with a pretty airtight story that nobody's been able to come up with evidence to dispute. The closest thing to disputing that is the girlfriend's testimony and if you believe that Treyvon was a "good kid who would never assault anyone". Never mind that he was suspended from school for fighting.

Get your heads out of your asses. The police were protecting Treyvon's memory. Treyvon's family and girlfriend were the ones who pushed this to the point where Treyvon's history and troubles became public information.

Holy shit, how many times do you hear "oh, he was such a good guy: he would never do this!" from the family of a guy who just stabbed a victim to death, and you're still dumb enough to make a snap judgement based on the FAMILY saying their loved one was "a good kid"?

 

[GG2]

^^
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3IcJTEgfgd

"The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News. "

"Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. "

I've read that the kid was suspended from school for having a baggie that was thought to have held marijuana at one time, not for fighting. Please quote your source. Zimmerman has a more serious history including assault on a police officer. How much marijuana do you suspect Zimmerman has smoked throughout his life?

Part of the problem is the lack of evidence and some of that has to do with the botched police investigation right from the start. If Zimmerman goes to court and gets off, it's not necessarily because he's innocent. It's because he's "not guilty", like OJ Simpson.

It's been said that Zimmerman was wearing his gun on his chest in some type of holster in clear view. The story that Trayvon would attack a stranger who has a gun who is walking away from him, seems somewhat suspicious. Would you voluntarily get into a fist fight with a guy that's strapped? The witnesses that purportedly corroborate Zimmerman's story appear only to corroborate the portion of the story where they observed Zimmerman getting his ass beaten - not that Trayvon came up and attacked Zimmerman from behind unprovoked.