The Hoodie
- Thread starter Scarey
- Start date
OK. Try crossing the border wearing a hoodie. See how it goes.Hes not going to get shot you dumbass.
edit: im sorry i reacted like that to your irrelevant statement.
ive done that several times no problems. and thats just as irrelevant. i wont call you a dumbass this time though.
are you going to ask me to try wearing a hoodie in the middle of july and see how that works for me?
are you going to ask me to try wearing a hoodie in the middle of july and see how that works for me?
The point is that fair or not, logical or not, others will judge you based on physical appearance when you walk out the door.How did a job interview get introduced into the discussion?
It was never that you'll get shot, which of course, crosses the line from perception to illegality.
we are not talking about an interview and wearing casual clothes.
we are talking about you shouldnt wear a hoodie because it makes others feel uncomfortable. of course people are going to judge others but its the actions people take is what is important not what they are wearing. some kid wearing a hoodie minding his own business shouldn't scare people bottom line. the message shouldnt be "kids dont wear hoodies" the message should be "adults don't be fucking stupid."
yet you fail to grasp that by talking about border crossings and other stupidness.
we are talking about you shouldnt wear a hoodie because it makes others feel uncomfortable. of course people are going to judge others but its the actions people take is what is important not what they are wearing. some kid wearing a hoodie minding his own business shouldn't scare people bottom line. the message shouldnt be "kids dont wear hoodies" the message should be "adults don't be fucking stupid."
yet you fail to grasp that by talking about border crossings and other stupidness.
Ok. So if there are just two people involved, just what kind of an investigation could the police conduct?I was reading the Wikipedia entry and whatever happened, the laws in Florida are fucked up. Zimmerman claimed his right to self-defense and the police could not disprove it so he walks free and clear. That sounds pretty fucked up to me. At least do a full investigation. Fuck, anybody could claim self-defense if there's only two people involved and if the claimant is lucky enough to be the one left standing then he's free and clear.
Sounds bush league to me. But hey, that's Florida.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin
We know about the girlfriend's telephone call now. Go to the Wikipedia article you linked. Go to the part where it discussed the girlfriend coming forward. Then click on the reference link (#38) and follow that link to ABC News' site. The ABC News makes it very clear that it got an exclusive that day. That day was March 20th, 2012.
Her boyfriend was shot Feb 26th, 2012, and she didn't come forward for nearly a full month. I don't blame her in any way, but that was a critical piece of information that simply was not available to the police at the time of the incident and during the abbreviated investigation.
With respect to the investigation: one shot was fired. Eyewitness accounts that multiple shots were fired were discounted. That also discounted the eyewitnesses' testimony.
You know that line about "innocent until proven guilty"? That applies to the accused, not to the victim. Zimmerman's testimony had to be impeached by a reliable source before he could be arrested. On what grounds would you have, before the girlfriend coming forward, to say Zimmerman was lying?
Previous to the girlfriend coming forward, I don't see any probable cause to believe Zimmerman was lying. That would be the same if Zimmerman were black and Martin were Hispanic, Asian, White, Native American, or any combination of the above.
Florida's law is meant to allow people to defend themselves when they feel they're in danger. No, the law wasn't meant to allow an armed citizen to follow another person, set up a dangerous situation, and then shoot that person "in self defense". But if you know anything about the law, you have to know this: despite most of them being former lawyers, politicians are absolute garbage at writing "mechanically" good laws.
With respect to the hoodie: Wearing a hoodie makes people uncomfortable. I own hoodies. I wear hoodies. As simon482 put it: I know it makes people nervous when I wear it.
With respect to the "does a girl dressing like a slut" comment, here's the difference: a girl dressing like a slut is not an excuse for rape. In Florida, making someone fear for their life is legal justification for them shooting you. You don't like that? Don't go to Florida. I daresay the only difference between Florida's self defense law and the self defense law where you are (if where you are allows firearms in the first place) is that actual "stand your ground" part of the law. In most jurisdictions I'm aware of, this case would have played out pretty much the same if Zimmerman had lied and said he tried to run away before he shot Martin. And given Zimmerman's knowledge of that point in the law, you may or may not believe he would have lied to make a self defense case in Ontario, in New York state, in Ohio, or in any other jurisdiction you care to name that allows firearms in the hands of its citizens.
Do I think Zimmerman's some evil a-hole? Not really. As best as I can tell, he's a police officer want-to-be who couldn't get a job as a cop in Florida (FL is a semi-retirement location for a lot of cops, so it's a hard place to get a job as a cop). He's a bit of a meathead, but nothing in his background shows that he's an overt racist. But let's face it: if you live in a gated community and you see a kid with his hoodie up walking through the neighborhood at night, you're going to be a little suspicious. Just as Martin reasonably felt suspicious when he was walking home at night, in the rain, and some strange guy started following him.
This was a tragic, horrible thing. But tragic, horrible things can happen without evil intent or desire.
"Shouldn't" has nothing to do with it. The reality is that it does scare people. And you're a ridiculous idealist if you think it doesn't. And you're lying to yourself if you're saying it doesn't bother you to have a bunch of kids wearing their hoodies up.we are not talking about an interview and wearing casual clothes.
we are talking about you shouldnt wear a hoodie because it makes others feel uncomfortable. of course people are going to judge others but its the actions people take is what is important not what they are wearing. some kid wearing a hoodie minding his own business shouldn't scare people bottom line. the message shouldnt be "kids dont wear hoodies" the message should be "adults don't be fucking stupid."
yet you fail to grasp that by talking about border crossings and other stupidness.
Maybe you "shouldn't" check to see if your doors are locked when you drive through the bad part of town, either. You're still going to do it, or your guilt at feeling that way is going to make you specifically not lock your doors.
Did you have your hoodie up, or were you just wearing a hoodie? Or are you missing that key point?ive done that several times no problems. and thats just as irrelevant. i wont call you a dumbass this time though.
we are talking about one kid with his hoodie up. and it doesnt bother me if there are some kids just hanging out minding their business with their hoodies up. is it raining? is it cold?"Shouldn't" has nothing to do with it. The reality is that it does scare people. And you're a ridiculous idealist if you think it doesn't. And you're lying to yourself if you're saying it doesn't bother you to have a bunch of kids wearing their hoodies up.
Maybe you "shouldn't" check to see if your doors are locked when you drive through the bad part of town, either. You're still going to do it, or your guilt at feeling that way is going to make you specifically not lock your doors.
and my car doors automatically lock when my car hits a certain speed. please dont assume what you think i do.
and even so me checking that my doors are locked in a dangerous area ≠ chasing some one down that their presence makes me feel uncomfortable.
Ridiculous.... And they are usually wearing jeans so are kids now not ever suppose to wear jeans, white socks, Nike/Adidas running shoes?Like Geraldo said, when people hold up a convenience store, they're usually wearing hoodies
Can't wait to see Zimmerman and that Police chief do down for this travesty. Racial profiling and Police corruption 100%
Hopefully in the end justice is served and the guilty individual'S punished
911 call..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOpGAOXL5Uk
"these assholes, they allways get away"
Exactly!stand your ground doesn't mean chase after some one after the 911 dispatcher tells you not to.
we are talking about one kid with his hoodie up. and it doesnt bother me if there are some kids just hanging out minding their business with their hoodies up. is it raining? is it cold?
and my car doors automatically lock when my car hits a certain speed. please dont assume what you think i do.
and even so me checking that my doors are locked in a dangerous area ≠ chasing some one down that their presence makes me feel uncomfortable.
1.) You lie to yourself. A lot. Because if you think you wouldn't lock your doors in a bad neighborhood if you nanny car didn't lock them for you, you're either a fool or a liar.stand your ground doesn't mean chase after some one after the 911 dispatcher tells you not to.
2.) Where did I say it was ok for Zimmerman to do what he did, according to Stand Your Ground? As a matter of fact, I believe I specifically mentioned something about there. Oh, here it is:
Golly, did you read that part?Florida's law is meant to allow people to defend themselves when they feel they're in danger. No, the law wasn't meant to allow an armed citizen to follow another person, set up a dangerous situation, and then shoot that person "in self defense". But if you know anything about the law, you have to know this: despite most of them being former lawyers, politicians are absolute garbage at writing "mechanically" good laws.
3.) Now answer the question: do you go through border security with your hood up? You don't, do you? Do you go through a store with your hood up? Do you go through life with your hood up?
Does that mean, if it's raining, you don't put up your hood? Of course not. Just as Martin did when it was raining, you put your hood up. As do I, if I think of it. But I'm not annoyed, either if I walk into a bank with my hood up and the teller starts a bit when she sees a man with his hood up walking into her bank. If that happens, I sheepishly lower my hood, give her an apologetic grin and say "sorry" because I'M the one who has violated social norms, not she. If, in a similar situation, you don't feel that way and act that way, you're just an ass. You seem to think that the world works according to rational behavioral patterns. It doesn't.
"Oh, no, before I'm suspicious of someone I first go through a mental checklist: is it raining? Is it cold? Maybe that kid just has a bad haircut and is trying to hide it?"
Bullshit. You are a liar. Either deliberately to this board or to yourself.
Like it or not, the human animal is just that: an animal (unless you're going to say you're a religious type and believe in some form of Creationism?). And at the base of our brain we recognize patterns. You may suppress that pattern recognition out of white/Asian/whatever guilt and choose to lie to yourself, but it's there. And it's there for a very good survival reason: taking the time to go through a checklist is the high margin society luxury and we're descended from hundreds of generations of low margin societies, and that's after societies were invented in the first place.
Zimmerman screwed up. And he's likely going to get buried for it, and deserves to. But if you're stupid enough to think there's any evidence that he went in there with evil intent or that the police had any probable cause to arrest him before the girlfriend came forward (again, 3 weeks after the incident and after the police wrapped things up to the extent they could).
Seriously, babypowder, what ARE you saying? That the police had probable cause before the girlfriend came forward? That Zimmerman is some evil, racist a-hole who deliberately assassinated a black kid? Or are you just sticking to the hoodie issue (that you've already lost, but never mind that) because that's the biggest issue your mind can comprehend?
Like it or not, wearing a hoodie makes people nervous. It makes YOU nervous. You're lying if you say different, or you're even more mentally challenged than everyone already thinks you are.
you are a dumbass i think most cars that are atleast 13 years old have that feature. if so i would make sure that my car is locked where ever my car is regardless if its jane and finch or the bridalpath.1.) You lie to yourself. A lot. Because if you think you wouldn't lock your doors in a bad neighborhood if you nanny car didn't lock them for you, you're either a fool or a liar.
Yes i wore my hood on a many occasions and once i was asked to remove it . Do i wear my hoodie inside? that a fucking retarded question. i dont wear my hoodie inside because im fucking inside. not because of society norms and i wouldnt apologize for it either.3.) Now answer the question: do you go through border security with your hood up? You don't, do you? Do you go through a store with your hood up? Do you go through life with your hood up?
yes its not being a liar its called being a rational human being. and not just jumping to conclusions like a moron or a panophobic idiot like yourself.."Oh, no, before I'm suspicious of someone I first go through a mental checklist: is it raining? Is it cold? Maybe that kid just has a bad haircut and is trying to hide it?"
you must be a 12 year old. the police and the public have access to 911 phone calls.The gf isnt the 911 dispatcher you dumfuck. they dont need to talk to the mourning gf to find out that He fucking followed the kid after being told not tooZimmerman screwed up. And he's likely going to get buried for it, and deserves to. But if you're stupid enough to think there's any evidence that he went in there with evil intent or that the police had any probable cause to arrest him before the girlfriend came forward (again, 3 weeks after the incident and after the police wrapped things up to the extent they could).
Seriously, babypowder, what ARE you saying? That the police had probable cause before the girlfriend came forward? That Zimmerman is some evil, racist a-hole who deliberately assassinated a black kid? Or are you just sticking to the hoodie issue (that you've already lost, but never mind that) because that's the biggest issue your mind can comprehend?
you're a fucking idiot.Like it or not, wearing a hoodie makes people nervous. It makes YOU nervous. You're lying if you say different, or you're even more mentally challenged than everyone already thinks you are.
Just to throw some more confusion into this case:
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/anonymous-witness-claims-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman
Now, do I put a lot of stock in these witnesses? No, not really. And I'll be honest: I don't put a lot of confidence in the girlfriend's testimony, either.
Look, a kid was walking home from the convenience store with his hoodie up because it was raining. Want-to-be-cop Zimmerman sees him, thinks Martin is suspicious, and follows him. Both (?) make 911 phone calls, nervous as hell. They end up in a scuffle, Martin ends up dead.
There. That's all we know. Everything else is impeachable. I'd hate to put the witness from the link above on the stand, I'd hate to put the girlfriend on the stand. I think a jury will convict Zimmerman of manslaughter, but that's largely because of the hype around this case. The truth is, there isn't any unimpeachable evidence in this case, which is why the police declined to pursue the case in the first place.
It's a tragedy. Everything I've seen about Martin says he was a good kid who at worst was a regular suburban teenager posing like a badass for Facebook. Everything I've seen about Zimmerman seems to indicate that he's a mid-grade loser who at 28 was at least 8 years into working for a 2 year Associates degree from a really low-level junior college, working as a security guard because he couldn't become a police officer. Now both their lives are effectively over. Putting myself in either of their shoes, my actions are more likely to match Martin's. Some guy starts following me home from the convenience store at night, I might jump him (not conclusively saying Martin did, but it's a possibility). And while I wouldn't have followed Martin, if I were jumped by him and was getting my butt kicked, I might pull a gun on him if I had one on me.
This was a tragedy of errors. Largely, yes, Zimmerman's. As best as we can tell. But if Martin wasn't doing anything suspicious, was Zimmerman doing anything suspicious by tailing Martin? Or at least, suspicious enough to get jumped for it? I understand Martin doing so (if he did), but would a mature person who wasn't a teenager do so?
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/anonymous-witness-claims-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman
Now, do I put a lot of stock in these witnesses? No, not really. And I'll be honest: I don't put a lot of confidence in the girlfriend's testimony, either.
Look, a kid was walking home from the convenience store with his hoodie up because it was raining. Want-to-be-cop Zimmerman sees him, thinks Martin is suspicious, and follows him. Both (?) make 911 phone calls, nervous as hell. They end up in a scuffle, Martin ends up dead.
There. That's all we know. Everything else is impeachable. I'd hate to put the witness from the link above on the stand, I'd hate to put the girlfriend on the stand. I think a jury will convict Zimmerman of manslaughter, but that's largely because of the hype around this case. The truth is, there isn't any unimpeachable evidence in this case, which is why the police declined to pursue the case in the first place.
It's a tragedy. Everything I've seen about Martin says he was a good kid who at worst was a regular suburban teenager posing like a badass for Facebook. Everything I've seen about Zimmerman seems to indicate that he's a mid-grade loser who at 28 was at least 8 years into working for a 2 year Associates degree from a really low-level junior college, working as a security guard because he couldn't become a police officer. Now both their lives are effectively over. Putting myself in either of their shoes, my actions are more likely to match Martin's. Some guy starts following me home from the convenience store at night, I might jump him (not conclusively saying Martin did, but it's a possibility). And while I wouldn't have followed Martin, if I were jumped by him and was getting my butt kicked, I might pull a gun on him if I had one on me.
This was a tragedy of errors. Largely, yes, Zimmerman's. As best as we can tell. But if Martin wasn't doing anything suspicious, was Zimmerman doing anything suspicious by tailing Martin? Or at least, suspicious enough to get jumped for it? I understand Martin doing so (if he did), but would a mature person who wasn't a teenager do so?
Right. But do you check to make sure your door is locked in a bad neighborhood? That's the question that you're avoiding.you are a dumbass i think most cars that are atleast 13 years old have that feature. if so i would make sure that my car is locked where ever my car is regardless if its jane and finch or the bridalpath.
Then you're a rude asshole.Yes i wore my hood on a many occasions and once i was asked to remove it . Do i wear my hoodie inside? that a fucking retarded question. i dont wear my hoodie inside because im fucking inside. not because of society norms and i wouldnt apologize for it either.
I'm not scared of anything, but I'm prepared for everything. Being otherwise is just being stupid. Like yourself.yes its not being a liar its called being a rational human being. and not just jumping to conclusions like a moron or a panophobic idiot like yourself..
Right. Which I don't dispute in any way, shape, or form. But the girlfriend's testimony was what changed this story, dummy. Do you know how I know that? Because the first mention of Trayvon Martin on this board was after the girlfriend spoke up. After she put a face on the story. The Wikipedia article Keebler linked? First put up after the girlfriend spoke up. You know how I know that? Because the first article referenced was dated March 22nd. And even with the girlfriend's testimony, the truth is that there isn't probable cause to arrest Zimmerman. I think the public pressure with change that equation, but without the public pressure (which, again, came after the girlfriend came forward) Zimmerman wasn't and couldn't get charged for this.you must be a 12 year old. the police and the public have access to 911 phone calls.The gf isnt the 911 dispatcher you dumfuck. they dont need to talk to the mourning gf to find out that He fucking followed the kid after being told not too
Edit: and while I'm at it, WRT the 911 operator: So? I mean, yes, it was good advice from the 911 operator to Zimmerman, telling him to leave Martin alone. Zimmerman wishes he'd followed that advice. But a 911 operator has no power to command anyone to do jack shit. A 911 operator is a call center employee of emergency services, not a police officer. The 911 operator gave Zimmerman good advice, but that had no power over Zimmerman and whether or not he followed Martin. If Zimmerman called his grandma and told her what was happening, the 911 operator would have just as much legal right to command Zimmerman as his grandma.
It's so enjoyable to engage in debate and discourse with someone who can hold a conversation at a five year old's level.you're a fucking idiot.
how am i avoiding the question? can you read? if i make sure my doors are locked anywhere i am why would i have to check when i know they are locked? Do you even use your brain or is it just dead weight?Right. But do you check to make sure your door is locked in a bad neighborhood? That's the question that you're avoiding.
you must love back peddling. the local police didnt do their job properly why do you think that the chief of police had to step down? and that the FBI is involved now? maybe because the local PD fucked up big time on this investigation? yes. and yes you're a fucking moron there's articles on this dating back to the 8th of this monthRight. Which I don't dispute in any way, shape, or form. But the girlfriend's testimony was what changed this story, dummy. Do you know how I know that? Because the first mention of Trayvon Martin on this board was after the girlfriend spoke up. After she put a face on the story. The Wikipedia article Keebler linked? First put up after the girlfriend spoke up. You know how I know that? Because the first article referenced was dated March 22nd. And even with the girlfriend's testimony, the truth is that there isn't probable cause to arrest Zimmerman. I think the public pressure with change that equation, but without the public pressure (which, again, came after the girlfriend came forward) Zimmerman wasn't and couldn't get charged for this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html
"Check to make sure", Babypowder. It's the same thing as double checking to make sure you've got a condom when you go out on a date: yes, you know you always put one in that pocket when you go out, but you check to make sure. And you answered the question: you don't have the imagination to realize that automatic mechanisms can fail because there are specific situations where your doors don't lock. It's called being careful, you dumb fuck.how am i avoiding the question? can you read? if i make sure my doors are locked anywhere i am why would i have to check when i know they are locked? Do you even use your brain or is it just dead weight?
Are you incapable of reading? Because of public pressure. Point to me where the police had (or even HAVE, at this point) probable cause to arrest Zimmerman. Please note that Zimmerman isn't under arrest right now. "The FBI is probing this case." And NOTHING will come of that! There's no reliable evidence whatsoever that there was a hate crime in this case, and the FBI has no jurisdiction over this case.you must love back peddling. the local police didnt do their job properly why do you think that the chief of police had to step down? and that the FBI is involved now? maybe because the local PD fucked up big time on this investigation? yes. and yes your a fucking moron there's articles on this dating back to the 8th of this month
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html
The FBI, the Justice Department, etc., are all flapping their gums over this because fools like you read a few headlines and think you understand what happened.
Specifically, what did the locals do that was against police procedure, Babypowder? You DO know what police procedure is, right?
i dont do redundant redundancies because i dont have ADD like you. when you have good habits you dont need to double check. and if you re read my post i was talking about if i didn't have a "nanny" car but that 20+ year old rust bucket you probably drive around in."Check to make sure", Babypowder. It's the same thing as double checking to make sure you've got a condom when you go out on a date: yes, you know you always put one in that pocket when you go out, but you check to make sure. And you answered the question: you don't have the imagination to realize that automatic mechanisms can fail because there are specific situations where your doors don't lock. It's called being careful, you dumb fuck.
Are you incapable of reading? Because of public pressure. Point to me where the police had (or even HAVE, at this point) probable cause to arrest Zimmerman. Please note that Zimmerman isn't under arrest right now. "The FBI is probing this case." And NOTHING will come of that! There's no reliable evidence whatsoever that there was a hate crime in this case, and the FBI has no jurisdiction over this case.
The FBI, the Justice Department, etc., are all flapping their gums over this because fools like you read a few headlines and think you understand what happened.
Specifically, what did the locals do that was against police procedure, Babypowder? You DO know what police procedure is, right?
they didnt Not arrest him because there was no probable cause. because there obviously was probable cause. you are the only moron that believes there isn't
its cops turning the typical blind eye on a crime because its a fellow "LEO". sounds like proper "police procedure" right? right?article that Nuprin was too stupid to read said:"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin said. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."
and yes you're still a fucking moron
I drive a 2 year old hybrid (bought new), sold my 7 year old sports car earlier this year (bought new), and am casually in the market for a new sports saloon, but I'm considering putting the money into another real estate investment instead. I own and operate approximately a dozen rental properties in one of the few markets in the US that didn't lose value: I'm doing fine, thank you. What do YOU do and what do YOU drive, Babypowder?i dont do redundant redundancies because i dont have ADD like you. when you have good habits you dont need to double check. and if you re read my post i was talking about if i didn't have a "nanny" car but that 20+ year old rust bucket you probably drive around in.
Ok. Where is it? What do you believe Zimmerman did that was criminal in the state of Florida, and where is the evidence to back it up?they didnt Not arrest him because there was no probable cause. because there obviously was probable cause. you are the only moron that believes there isn't
That he followed a kid? When you get down to it, that was Zimmerman's big mistake: HE FOLLOWED A KID HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF. Is there ANY evidence that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman? Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that Martin did jump Zimmerman and if Martin jumped Zimmerman because he was scared because some dude was following him in the dark, I wouldn't blame Martin at all. That's not something I'd do, but I can understand it. Martin was (according to his girlfriend) scared and nervous. When some people are scared and nervous, they fight back.
BTW, that's also part of Florida's Stand Your Ground law. And if Martin had turned the gun on Zimmerman, he'd be eligible for the protection of that law just as Zimmerman is. Keep that in mind.
So, do you believe Martin jumped Zimmerman? If not, do you have any proof that he didn't jump Zimmerman? Because if you don't have any proof, THEN THERE IS NO CRIMINAL CASE AND NO PROBABLE CAUSE. And I've been researching this case: there is no evidence that Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, and Zimmerman had a bump on his head from something.
So, where is your probable cause to arrest Zimmerman? Or are you just a sheep
Do you know any cops? Have you ever talked to them about how they feel about want-to-be types? They weren't going to turn a blind eye to Zimmerman's actions. It's just that Zimmerman's story holds water, none of the evidence goes counter to his story, and if his story is true then there's nothing they can charge him with.its cops turning the typical blind eye on a crime because its a fellow "LEO". sounds like proper "police procedure" right? right?
and yes you're still a fucking moron
Seriously, Babypowder, do you even know what probable cause is? Do you have the first inklings of how the criminal justice system works?
Without the emotional content, without the protest marches and the tearful girlfriend and parents, what we have here comes down to Zimmerman's story holding water. It is not illegal to follow someone. If Martin jumped Zimmerman, and Zimmerman at that moment felt in danger of his life (because he was getting his ass kicked, as at least some testimony backs up), then Zimmerman had the right to defend himself with his gun. Now, he was stupid enough to put himself in that situation, but up to getting jumped by Martin (if he was jumped by Martin), Zimmerman didn't do anything illegal.
The application of the Stand Your Ground law wouldn't start when Zimmerman started following Martin. It applies from the moment that Martin jumped (if he did) Zimmerman. From THAT point, IF that all occurred, where is the probable cause to charge Zimmerman?
You've stated the probable cause exists. You have not pointed it out. Please correct that.
