The cure for Cancer is it about profit

[train]

IT's a Con

I have been through all of this as a result of a wife who has cancer.

My conclusions are that of who is likely to be the bigger con artists between the big drug companies and the health food industry it is no contest. It's health food. The three biggest cons are miracle weight loss, miracle cancer cures and penis enlarging. Yes, you can lump them all together. CTV did a 60 Minutes style expose on all of this about a year ago. There is an outfit in Ottawa that claims a cure that uses flax oil. It was exposed as a total con.

Yes flax oil is good for you, as are all Omega 3 fats. Is it a cure ...No. It is prevention. Something simpler and more proven as a preventative is low-dose aspirin. Lots of independent studies on it. Every adult, particularly women, should take 81 mg of aspirin a day.

People wants to believe these miracle cures because of suspicions if big business and a disatisfaction with the generally poor cure rates of chemotherapy and radiation. The rates depend on what type of cancer you have and at what stage it was found but anything found at stage 3 or later generally has a dismal cure rate and I can tell you taking a lot of flax oil at that point isn't going to due a damn thing.

The one thing that people got right was that it is about the money. The people selling these fake miracle cures are fleecing their sick victims out of millions of dollars every year.

You can understand otherwise intelligent people grasping at these treatments.I mean if an oncologist told you you had stage 4 cancer and with chemo you had a 50% chance of living another two years what would you do? You'd give it a shot right ?I mean you can't let your wife die and not try anything right? Even if you know before you do it it's a con. You have to give her some faint hope. There are studies underway now at Sunnybrook on the effect of a positive psychological outlook on survival rates.

I'm so disgusted with the people that flog these fakes cures and make living out fleecing dying people out of thousands of dollars. Flax oil is just one of many. How can these people live with themselves.

My wife had a operation for cancer. She refused follow up chemo treatments and tried the flax seed oil and other health food treatments at a cost of $20,000 per year. I supported this because the chemo stats weren't much better and you can't just give up. Needless to say the cancer had spread to the lymph nodes and matastisized spreading to two other vital organs.

Then at bit of luck. A new chemo drug was cleared for trials. She took it for 6 months. She is now in remission. How long will it last ? 6 months ?6 years ? Don't know it's a new drug. Guess what ? If I had paid for this drug it would have cost me less than the $20,000 I paid for the flax oil quack.

A bit of a rant and I apologize for that but I couldn't not say anything given what I have seen first hand.

 

[spatial_k]

IT's a Con

I have been through all of this as a result of a wife who has cancer.

My conclusions are that of who is likely to be the bigger con artists between the big drug companies and the health food industry it is no contest. It's health food. The three biggest cons are miracle weight loss, miracle cancer cures and penis enlarging. Yes, you can lump them all together. CTV did a 60 Minutes style expose on all of this about a year ago. There is an outfit in Ottawa that claims a cure that uses flax oil. It was exposed as a total con.

Health food is a con? Come ON. Of course you can't take flax oil and expect it will cure cancer. Healthy food and herbal/ naturopathic remedies are not about cures, they're about being healthy. As in, take action before you get sick. Flax oil is just one often-overlooked source of a omega-3 which as you said is really important in our diet.

There are charlatans in every industry,a nd you're right about people wanting to believe. But a few dubious or even outright false claims in the 'health food industry' as you call it doesn't negate the value of eating right and exploring alternate routes to health any more than a few faulty bottle caps should make you distrust pharmacology altogether. There is a lot that all types of medicine have to offer. The key is that people need to educate themselves and find out what works well for them rather than blindly following any one route.

As someone who is interested in preventive care, I have learned enough to be wary of anything that claims to be a miracle cure. The factors associated with any condition are extremely complex and you're not going to solve most of them with just an herbal supplement.

 

[danmand]

Not really a con

Health food is not generally a con. There is solid evidence that many of our diseases can be PREVENTED by a diet containing certain healthy foods.

The problem is of course that generally speaking it takes a miracle to cure stage 4 cancers or other progressed diseases. And most people only get into health food when the disease has been diagnosed.

 

[train]

They discovered insulin, antibiotics, vacines against polio, measels, small pox, etc.

No more cures or vacines for anything.

It's all about "treatments" and "disease management" They want you to take a beaker full of pills every day for the rest of your life.

.

Not that I want to defend the Government's management of health care or the drug companies but I'm not sure that I agree totally. Firstly all the cures you talk about are pharmacuetically based ie pills or injections. In the case of insulin it also a case of desease management. In fact I think this treatment defined the term.

Antibiotics need to be reinvented every few years as a reult of resistance being built up by the nasties.

Everything from stem cell research , to heart medications to ED drugs are all relatively recent.

Where there has been great recent research is in medical devices and procedures that do provide a permanent cure such as angioplasties and stents, artificial heart valves etc etc.

 

[train]

Health food is not generally a con. There is solid evidence that many of our diseases can be PREVENTED by a diet containing certain healthy foods.

.

As a preventative measure I agree with you 100%. As a cure, my opinion is that if someone tells you they can cure anything serious with a simple food or nut or bark or whatever it's a con.

 

[Sergei]

The existence of a few con artists does not mean that the natural way of looking at health issues is "quackery."

The journal of the American Medical Association has admitted that doctors are the third biggest cause of death in the USA. Their biggest weapon? Medications.

The same shit is happening in Canada. A huge percentage of visits to the emergency rooms in CDA are caused by medications (this according to stats I read in the Globe and Mail). Most medications actually cause the conditions they claim to manage; they create addicts and the drug companies admit it.

Most doctors are bigger quacks than the "quacks" they criticize. The point is to avoid them as much as possible and only use them in extreme cases of need (as your case is). Personally I would rather die than go through chemotherapy, but that's me.

Canadian doctors have fucked me over with their "therapies" and I never go to the doctor in Canada. For me it's private health care abroad (incidentally, doctors in Europe told me that I didn't have anything wrong with me, when the Canadians had told me that I did and needed medications - boy am I glad I didn't listen to the Canadians since I recovered completely without doing anything).

Then they told my father that he had Lou Gherig's disease, they tortured him for 17 months in endless waiting lists and then he went to Europe and found out in 2 weeks that there was nothing wrong with him.

I know one guy who lost both kidneys from an antibiotic, little girls have lost their livers from the same thing, and the doctors almost killed my father with Vioxx.

As Hipocrates may have said if he were alive: Flax oil may not cure you, but at least it won't destroy your life.

 

[Meister]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that this statement is FALSE. Do a little research before you end up a victim of the drug companies. I speak from personal and family experience. LEARN NOW. The Fartaceucicals are ruthless.

Maybe you are missing my point, I certainly don't get yours. It is a known fact that doctors over-prescribe especially when it comes to antibiotics. It is your choice not to take it.

However, my point is that if someone had a cure for cancer they don't need the big pharmas, they would go it alone because there would be gazillions of investors lined up and get rich in the process. And if there is too many roadblocks in the US you would just open a clinic in Timbuktu, people would still flock to you. This is why your theory is flawed.

I also don't deny the benefits of naturopathy. However, the definition of a cure would be a prescribed drug or therapy that would work on any patient with that specific cancer most of the time, say 95%.

 

[shakenbake]

You'd be surprised to find out how many drugs are derived from variously sourced piss and of course oil refinery waste. To get the full story (historically) on the fartaceuticals, look up a book by William Beale - the text is available in its entirety on the net for free.
quote]

Ain't this the truth!

If memory serves me correctly, Aspirin was originally made from coal tar derivatives, anilin and other such stuff. That is what we did in Organic Chem lab during my undergrad years. Of course, we must not refuse all meds and consider them all trash. However, it makes yo wonder, doesn't it?

 

[basketcase]

...

As Hipocrates may have said if he were alive: Flax oil may not cure you, but at least it won't destroy your life.

If it costs 20 grand a year, it sure as hell can.

 

[Sergei]

Maybe you are missing my point, I certainly don't get yours. It is a known fact that doctors over-prescribe especially when it comes to antibiotics. It is your choice not to take it.

However, my point is that if someone had a cure for cancer they don't need the big pharmas, they would go it alone because there would be gazillions of investors lined up and get rich in the process. And if there is too many roadblocks in the US you would just open a clinic in Timbuktu, people would still flock to you. This is why your theory is flawed.

I also don't deny the benefits of naturopathy. However, the definition of a cure would be a prescribed drug or therapy that would work on any patient with that specific cancer most of the time, say 95%.

Sorry, I misunderstood slightly. My point is that if there were a cure for cancer (and I didn't say that I believe that there is one) we would never find out about it, unless the professor goes to Timbuktu, in which case they'll just say that he's a quack who had to go to Timbuktu because he couldn't make his claim legally in Canada or somewhere else of supposed repute. That's because the guys in the FDA and AMA and their copies in other countries are marionettes of the drug industry (that this is true in Canada has been proven by the aforementioned firings) and nothing damaging to their economic interests can possibly get approval in a Western country. This also goes for the media, where actors have been paid to go on Larry King and say that prozac or some other pill saved their lives. The channels get huge revenues from drug advertisements. Just watch prime-time TV: ask your doctor about celebrex. Prilosec OTC - Zero heartburn! And so on. Do you think the networks can tell the truth about drugs and at the same time promote serious alternatives without losing revenues? I don't think so. So if the media don't support something and the government won't aprove it and all objectors to the system are labeled as "quacks," how are people supposed to find out about it and get informed in the first place?

That they try to suppress truth in general about the health and disease industries through a filthy big-money brainwashing and system of control is indisputable - That's what I meant to say. I just don't think that a cure can possibly fly in the current corrupt business and government climate. What would be the business plan - word of mouth and a trip to the Solomon Islands?

As far as antibiotics go, the problem is that the new antibiotics are extremely dangerous and that the doctors don't tell you anything about the possible side effects. And they don't take responsibility for their recommendations. And if you're naive or "trust your doctor" you risk the possible consequences. And I can speak for that first hand. I think that doctors should be obligated to give patients FULL information. And if they don't and you get screwed, they should pay up. I've been in contact with lawyers. That's all.

 

[Sergei]

If it costs 20 grand a year, it sure as hell can.

But it doesn't cost 20 grand. And what if the patient is a gillionaire? Plus, I'd rather be out 20 thousand than have a liver transplant.

And anyways, the old doctor was not referring to money when he said "do no harm."

 

[danmand]

But it doesn't cost 20 grand. And what if the patient is a gillionaire? Plus, I'd rather be out 20 thousand than have a liver transplant.

And anyways, the old doctor was not referring to money when he said "do no harm."

I cannot beliebe that eating healthy food is any more costly than eating unhealthy food. Maybe marginally, but not much.

 

[The Daulfin]

The problem with those ascribing to the "eating healthy will prevent disease" mantra is that they forget that they still have no actual control over what is in the product they are buying, and the irony is that processed foods give you more certainty over what you are getting. How twisted is that? For instance, what guarantee do you have that those organic carrots are not being grown on land that has seen fallout from a coal-fired power plant hundreds of miles away and leeching all sorts of harmful byproducts into the food? I remember a show a few years ago (it was either 20/20 or 60 Minutes) where they compared normal versus organic vegetables and found that while there are pesticides on normal foods that required them to be scrubbed to be safe, organic foods carried lethal levels of E.Coli that also required them to be thoroughly washed. The most priceless was when they confronted reps of the organics lobby with this simple fact, and they resorted to parroting the same line about it just being "healthier" without any basis in science nor reason. Thus you should scrub your veggies and save your money, as organics is largely a scam.

The truth is that unless you take the care to grow your own foods or at least verify the origin of most of them, your risk of getting toxic levels of something that will cause cancer or whatever is still really high. That's just a reality in our fossil-fueled world.

 

[C Dick]

I think we all agree that big drug companies are evil and think only of profit, but to take the leap from there to thinking that they would supress cancer cures makes no sense to me. They try harder than anything to get ahead of their competion, they would love to cure cancer because of the money they would make.

Has there ever been a case where a significant technological advance was hidden for a long time by a commercial interest, in order to protect their existing business (e.g. like hiding a cancer cure in order to sell drugs)? Things always get screwed up in business, could they all really be so successful at hiding these things that no case of it ever got out? Wouldn't the guy who invented it want his big ego to get the recognition? Wouldn't reporters be interested to hear about it? Wouldn't a supressed cure be a big story? I just can't buy it.

I am surprised that there are so many people here who seriously think that this happens, I would have assumed it was only nut-cases. Maybe it is, you never can tell. Perhaps I will post a poll and see what the overall sentiment of Terb members is.

 

[danmand]

The problem with those ascribing to the "eating healthy will prevent disease" mantra is that they forget that they still have no actual control over what is in the product they are buying, and the irony is that processed foods give you more certainty over what you are getting. How twisted is that? For instance, what guarantee do you have that those organic carrots are not being grown on land that has seen fallout from a coal-fired power plant hundreds of miles away and leeching all sorts of harmful byproducts into the food? I remember a show a few years ago (it was either 20/20 or 60 Minutes) where they compared normal versus organic vegetables and found that while there are pesticides on normal foods that required them to be scrubbed to be safe, organic foods carried lethal levels of E.Coli that also required them to be thoroughly washed. The most priceless was when they confronted reps of the organics lobby with this simple fact, and they resorted to parroting the same line about it just being "healthier" without any basis in science nor reason. Thus you should scrub your veggies and save your money, as organics is largely a scam.

The truth is that unless you take the care to grow your own foods or at least verify the origin of most of them, your risk of getting toxic levels of something that will cause cancer or whatever is still really high. That's just a reality in our fossil-fueled world.

I agree with most of your statements about the uncertainty in any food production, but I find your logic somewhat missing. The abcense of certainty does not mean that one should not try to get the best food possible.

And your examples are not good. I would greatly prefer carrots with earth bacteria over carrots with pesticides. Not all pesticides and fungicides can be washed off.

In reality I think you agree with me, because your final conclusion is that we should grow our own food if possible. Commercial food production has become a chemical industry.

 

[Meister]

I cannot beliebe that eating healthy food is any more costly than eating unhealthy food. Maybe marginally, but not much.

Have been to Wholefoods before. No bargain hunting there.

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/canada/oakville/index.html

Unless of course you grow your own veggies and keep some chicken in your backyard.

 

[danmand]

Unless of course you grow your own veggies and keep some chicken in your backyard.

You accurately descibed my little place in the country. (except that the chickens run wherever they want, backyard, frontyard, ...)

 

[shakenbake]

I think we all agree that big drug companies are evil and think only of profit, but to take the leap from there to thinking that they would supress cancer cures makes no sense to me. They try harder than anything to get ahead of their competion, they would love to cure cancer because of the money they would make.

Has there ever been a case where a significant technological advance was hidden for a long time by a commercial interest, in order to protect their existing business (e.g. like hiding a cancer cure in order to sell drugs)? Things always get screwed up in business, could they all really be so successful at hiding these things that no case of it ever got out? Wouldn't the guy who invented it want his big ego to get the recognition? Wouldn't reporters be interested to hear about it? Wouldn't a supressed cure be a big story? I just can't buy it.

I am surprised that there are so many people here who seriously think that this happens, I would have assumed it was only nut-cases. Maybe it is, you never can tell. Perhaps I will post a poll and see what the overall sentiment of Terb members is.

Just look at athe auto manufacturers and the oil companies. And, they are all the same this way, American, Japanese, etc.etc.

 

[goodtime]

You can understand otherwise intelligent people grasping at these treatments.I mean if an oncologist told you you had stage 4 cancer and with chemo you had a 50% chance of living another two years what would you do? You'd give it a shot right ?I mean you can't let your wife die and not try anything right? Even if you know before you do it it's a con. You have to give her some faint hope. There are studies underway now at Sunnybrook on the effect of a positive psychological outlook on survival rates.

I'm so disgusted with the people that flog these fakes cures and make living out fleecing dying people out of thousands of dollars. Flax oil is just one of many. How can these people live with themselves.

Good to hear your wife is in remission. We too searched high & low for cures as cancer runs in the family & extended family. Many out there targetting the sick.

The Sunnybrook positive psych outlook program been in place for 8 or more yrs now. As MD stumbed with stage 3 & 4 patients refused treatment, quit job, enjoy family did trips & 'mircle' remission.

 

[goodtime]

Health food is not generally a con. There is solid evidence that many of our diseases can be PREVENTED by a diet containing certain healthy foods.

The problem is of course that generally speaking it takes a miracle to cure stage 4 cancers or other progressed diseases. And most people only get into health food when the disease has been diagnosed.

Ditto.