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The Blue Jays 2019 Season

black booty lover

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In that case, what is the statute of limitations?

What is a reasonable time frame for a management that inherited a talented playoff team and has the resources of a huge market and one of the wealthiest owners to return them to the playoffs?

IMO, anything over 5 years is a fail. (I know they made the playoffs in the 1st year of shapeero, but it was all based on AA's work. Shaps did next to nothing to try to get a team that was so close to winning the AL to the next level, the WS. I feel that he squandered their position as a very talented team. He did not want to win with a team that was assembled by someone not named mark shapiro.

You can't have it both ways. You can't on one hand say, well 5 years is reasonable and anything less is a fail, and other say "well there first year they made the made the playoffs but that was under AA's regime". If your going to say they had nothing to do with the first year, then get a clean slate the next year.

Another thing, you keep talking about how there one of the wealthiest teams in baseball. You realize they have a budget right??? Do you know what that budget is? Because I don't.

Were you this critical of AA the first 4 years the Jays had done nothing before they made the playoffs? When finally he was at the tail end of his contract, pushed all the chips in and cleaned out the farm system so he would look good and get an extension.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
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Scott Mitchell✔@ScottyMitchTSN

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. had an MRI that revealed a Grade 1 quad strain.
He’ll go on the IL tomorrow.
So much for that cramp.#BlueJays
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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Phi, Perry, BBL --- Shack's usual MO is to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. He also now has a BFF who might join in the melee.
 

black booty lover

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Oct 21, 2007
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Phi, Perry, BBL --- Shack's usual MO is to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. He also now has a BFF who might join in the melee.

I don't agree with that as it relates to this thread. He's got very valid points and knows his baseball. I don't agree with all of them, but they're well thought out and at least presents a reasonable argument.

I don't know about other threads as we've only corresponded in this thread.
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
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I'm going split screen today, Waguespack reminds me of Jimmy Key. And gotta support my girl Bianca.

Should it happen the raitings will go trough the roof: Bianca vs Serena.

BBL eating Serena's ass would be dangerous, she sneezes and your nose is gone.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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You can't have it both ways. You can't on one hand say, well 5 years is reasonable and anything less is a fail, and other say "well there first year they made the made the playoffs but that was under AA's regime". If your going to say they had nothing to do with the first year, then get a clean slate the next year.
This is the 4th year for shapeero. They made the playoffs his first but it was basically AA's roster. I think he brought back Happ but aside from that did very little to better a team that was 2 wins away from a World Series. When a team is that close to winning it all, the more common scenario is do what is necessary to put them over the top as opposed to tinker a bit and hope they can win without spending any extra money. The World Series is the holy grail. Why did he not make a serious attempt at the grand prize? Although I have no factual basis to lean on, the only thing I can speculate on is he did not seriously try to win in'16, is that he wants all the credit. Speculation.

Another thing, you keep talking about how there one of the wealthiest teams in baseball. You realize they have a budget right??? Do you know what that budget is? Because I don't.
Neither do I but once again, when you are so close to winning the whole shebang a budget should be more flexible because there is a pot of gold awaiting. As well, a budget is set arbitrarily, especially for an org with so much money. What good is the money saved by staying on budget compare to the $75-100M they have lost each of the last few years by fielding a moribund team with absolutely zero chance?

Were you this critical of AA the first 4 years the Jays had done nothing before they made the playoffs? When finally he was at the tail end of his contract, pushed all the chips in and cleaned out the farm system so he would look good and get an extension.
The difference with AA is that he was not afraid to make bold moves and it was every year. He did not do "nothing". He showed how much he wanted to bring a winner to Toronto. The trade for Cy Young Dickey, the huge trade (flop) with the Marlins, Donaldson, Tulo etc. The moves did not all work out but he gave us entertaining teams to watch. He did not cheap out at every turn. He proved by his actions that he wanted to win. The teams under shapeero have gotten worse each year and this trend was totally predictable based on his (in)actions. We had fun under AA. We are being tortured under shapeero.

I think the fans of Toronto deserve more bang for their buck than what shaps has given us.
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Its you who doesnt get it, look at the top of the Forbes list,
Forbes determines which teams are successful financially. They do not determine population/market size.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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I don't agree with that as it relates to this thread. He's got very valid points and knows his baseball. I don't agree with all of them, but they're well thought out and at least presents a reasonable argument.

I don't know about other threads as we've only corresponded in this thread.
Darts is upset because I pick on him and criticize posts he makes that show he does not know as much about sports as he thinks he does. But they are valid criticisms. Look how foolish he looked in the thread about big players vs. small players. Most other posters agreed he was very wrong.

What I will give him credit for is that he does not seem thin-skinned. In spite of the criticism, he has remained polite and civil and I respect that.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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Darts is upset because I pick on him and criticize posts he makes
If you look at the posts in the Sports Forum over let say the past 2 years, you are involved in more controversies, debates, arguments, etc. than any other member. I'm only stating an objective fact. Other than you and your BFF I rarely get into any arguments with other members.

Having said that, I now leave the field to you guys (for now) to continue your dialogues.
 

Nad Smith

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Nov 23, 2004
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and while these arguments go on, there is some pretty entertaining baseball being played at the RC.
 

gcostanza

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Jul 24, 2010
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Taken from Twitter:

Since June 28th the Jays have a 20-19 record

A top 5 league & park-adjusted offence (109 wRC+).

A top 5 bullpen (3.54 ERA, 5th; 77 ERA-, 4th)

MLB rankings, not A.L.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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there is some pretty entertaining baseball being played at the RC.
No argument here. And they won 2 of 3 against the Yankees who are either number 1 or 2 in MLB.

I feel bad for Stroman. He had no or little run support when he was here and now he is gone.
 

black booty lover

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2007
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This is the 4th year for shapeero. They made the playoffs his first but it was basically AA's roster. I think he brought back Happ but aside from that did very little to better a team that was 2 wins away from a World Series. When a team is that close to winning it all, the more common scenario is do what is necessary to put them over the top as opposed to tinker a bit and hope they can win without spending any extra money. The World Series is the holy grail. Why did he not make a serious attempt at the grand prize? Although I have no factual basis to lean on, the only thing I can speculate on is he did not seriously try to win in'16, is that he wants all the credit. Speculation.

Neither do I but once again, when you are so close to winning the whole shebang a budget should be more flexible because there is a pot of gold awaiting. As well, a budget is set arbitrarily, especially for an org with so much money. What good is the money saved by staying on budget compare to the $75-100M they have lost each of the last few years by fielding a moribund team with absolutely zero chance?


The difference with AA is that he was not afraid to make bold moves and it was every year. He did not do "nothing". He showed how much he wanted to bring a winner to Toronto. The trade for Cy Young Dickey, the huge trade (flop) with the Marlins, Donaldson, Tulo etc. The moves did not all work out but he gave us entertaining teams to watch. He did not cheap out at every turn. He proved by his actions that he wanted to win. The teams under shapeero have gotten worse each year and this trend was totally predictable based on his (in)actions. We had fun under AA. We are being tortured under shapeero.

I think the fans of Toronto deserve more bang for their buck than what shaps has given us.
This was inevitably going to happen as they had nothing left in the farm system. AA was never going to be given the budget your dreaming of so there was going to be hard years no matter what.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
51,217
9,894
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Toronto
Taken from Twitter:

Since June 28th the Jays have a 20-19 record

A top 5 league & park-adjusted offence (109 wRC+).

A top 5 bullpen (3.54 ERA, 5th; 77 ERA-, 4th)

MLB rankings, not A.L.
Impressive. They have definitely been more interesting to watch.

Will it be enough for management to start bolstering the team in the off-season with some significant signings and increase the payroll of the active roster? I hope so.
 

black booty lover

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Oct 21, 2007
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Impressive. They have definitely been more interesting to watch.

Will it be enough for management to start bolstering the team in the off-season with some significant signings and increase the payroll of the active roster? I hope so.
Still to early. They wait until next years trade dead line to see where the kids are at. Not to mention, this year's free agent class isn't that great.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Wow, what an awesome finish to the game!!
I wont spoil it, but you might wanna watch the replay on SN if you didnt see it.

Youngsters can hold their head high, that was a battle to the end
 

The LoLRus

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Mar 30, 2009
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You are using a wrong definition of "big market team". It is a team that exists in a market with a larger than most population, which you've admitted is The Jays' situation. It is not necessarily a team that has a high profile and spends a lot of money
That might be your definition of a big market team, but its not everyone's definition of one.

This guy lays out a pretty good case as to why Jays arent really a big market team (like the Dodgers, Yankees....etc).
He argues that total revenue and attendance also plays a big part (article is from a few years ago but it still applies to 2019).
He also says not every Canadian is a Blue Jay fan (which is very true for the maritimes).

Link: http://baseballhotcorner.com/toront...that-has-to-act-more-like-a-small-market-one/

Revenue: http://baseballhotcorner.com/wp-con...venue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-2014.png
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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This guy lays out a pretty good case as to why Jays arent really a big market team (like the Dodgers, Yankees....etc).
He argues that total revenue and attendance also plays a big part (article is from a few years ago but it still applies to 2019).
I was going to say something similar but didn't want to get into another argument/debate with Shack (and maybe also his BFF).
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/961412-mlb-power-rankings-all-30-mlb-teams-by-market-size#slide2
 
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