Don said:
Nothing , but scroll and markjfr are both idiots. They like to see who can posts the most links, so any link will do.
Terrorism Hits montreal: Christian Terrorism?
- Thread starter MarkJfr
- Start date
Nothing , but scroll and markjfr are both idiots. They like to see who can posts the most links, so any link will do.
Like scroll's link saying there were multiple shooters?
The criteria that is missing for this to be called terrorism is the political or ideological aspect. From CNN (since little mark likes it now)
His religion is not being widely reported, because it is irrelevent. Besides, we in the "liberal" west see religion as a choice, not defined by birth. This guy seems to have chosen to be anti-religion.
His ethnicity, based on the name and the pictures seems to be from one of the ethnic groups from the Indian sub-continent. (I would assume that the early reports of him being anglo-saxon came from an American not understanding the use of the term "anglo" in Quebec) Of course, based on the information about this idiot, ethnicity played no role in this either.
You can also take pride mark in this guy's hatred in general of your good buddies in religous fundamentalist terror movements.
The criteria that is missing for this to be called terrorism is the political or ideological aspect. From CNN (since little mark likes it now)
I don't know if hatred of ideologies constitutes and ideology. I also don't see how this benefits his politics. Simply put, this killing was based on a hatred, likely built on a lack of acceptance."I hate this world, I hate the people in it, I hate the way people live, I hate God, I hate the deceivers, I hate betrayers, I hate religious zealots, I hate everything ... I hate so much ... (I could write 1,000 more lines like these, but does it really matter, does anyone even care)," said an entry from March.
His religion is not being widely reported, because it is irrelevent. Besides, we in the "liberal" west see religion as a choice, not defined by birth. This guy seems to have chosen to be anti-religion.
His ethnicity, based on the name and the pictures seems to be from one of the ethnic groups from the Indian sub-continent. (I would assume that the early reports of him being anglo-saxon came from an American not understanding the use of the term "anglo" in Quebec) Of course, based on the information about this idiot, ethnicity played no role in this either.
You can also take pride mark in this guy's hatred in general of your good buddies in religous fundamentalist terror movements.
I believe you are applying the concept of "ideology" too generally The way you are interpreting it just about every act of violence could be labelled terrorism.MarkJfr said:He was a terrorist nut, according to the Criminal Code of Justice
Every law that is written is eventually interpreted and I doubt very much any court would ever classify what happened today as terrorism based on the facts they we know today. If later they find out he did it because he was protesting Canada's involvement in Afganastan then suddenly you may have a terrorist act.
At the time of the shootings and subsequent knowledge nothing has changed. Your persistence that it was a terrorist act greatly takes away from your valid point about how the media treats arabs. I agree that if it was clearly a muslim or arab looking person doing the shootings chances are the media would have at least used the words "possible terrorist act". But given the current state of world events can we really blame the media.
Dreamer.........You hit the nail on the head...dreamer said:I believe you are applying the concept of "ideology" too generally The way you are interpreting it just about every act of violence could be labelled terrorism.
Every law that is written is eventually interpreted and I doubt very much any court would ever classify what happened today as terrorism based on the facts they we know today. If later they find out he did it because he was protesting Canada's involvement in Afganastan then suddenly you may have a terrorist act.
At the time of the shootings and subsequent knowledge nothing has changed. Your persistence that it was a terrorist act greatly takes away from your valid point about how the media treats arabs. I agree that if it was clearly a muslim or arab looking person doing the shootings chances are the media would have at least used the words "possible terrorist act". But given the current state of world events can we really blame the media.
MarkJfr keeps quoteing the Crime Code and how he interperts it...everyday people dont associate with that....they want simple english...if you took a poll on the streets of T.O. or Mtl, and asked if it was a terrorism or a nutbar, the results would show hes a nutbar. (How bout a poll here??) Besides, if it was a terriorist act, the siad terrorist group would have laid claim to it...so the world would know it wasnt some nutbar.
nut case
the only sure thing in this world is that the armchair pundits always get it wrong. i remember on the morning of september 11 2001, the "experts" were saying a small plane flew int othe wtc by accident.... then it was a car bomb.... when all along they knew nothing and were just speculating. in other words no matter what the truth is, i learned a long time ago there will always be some ill informed person just dying to fit the story into his pre-existing view of the world. in the case of montreal, wanting so deperately for it to be "terrorism" when it's so obviously a nutcase with a guns n ammo fetish. Just glad the perp ended up dead, and that the death toll wasn't as high as it could have been if the guy was a better shot.Don said:Pretty obvious to me. Not one person has compared this to any act of terrorism. What everyone is comparing it to is Columbine.
Or play with sharp objects...lenharper said:Mark, word to the wise, don't run with scissors.
I think there is one valid point to be made about this "terrorist / wing nut" debate:
What we have is an incident that has already happened where the person who committed the act was not a person that met the popular "terrorist profile" ... but, let's assume that this was a week ago, and that everything else remained the same except for two things:
1) The person in question is of Muslim background; and
2) Somehow the authorities found out that he was planning on heading out next week to go kill a bunch of kids at that school.
I don't think there is much doubt that the authorities would have charged this person with "terrorist" charges and not just simply "conspiracy to commit" charges.
What we have is an incident that has already happened where the person who committed the act was not a person that met the popular "terrorist profile" ... but, let's assume that this was a week ago, and that everything else remained the same except for two things:
1) The person in question is of Muslim background; and
2) Somehow the authorities found out that he was planning on heading out next week to go kill a bunch of kids at that school.
I don't think there is much doubt that the authorities would have charged this person with "terrorist" charges and not just simply "conspiracy to commit" charges.
Which was what, he hated the world? Sorry, doesnt fly. You wouldnt make it as a lawyer. You'd have to prove he had some idea behind the shooting spree other than just hating everybody.MarkJfr said:He did this for an ideological purpose, of his own.
In a normal justice system your assumption of a required proof would be correct .... in a "terrorism" case there is no need for "proof" ... a "security certificate" is all that is required. We already have a few people sitting in Canadian prisons without the benefit of any charges against them.
Logic does not apply in regards to the justice system and terrorism.
Logic does not apply in regards to the justice system and terrorism.
slowandeasy said:Or play with sharp objects...
I would like to suggest that we encourage him to run with any bladed object as often as possible.
Unfortunately, these types will just go out and harm other people not themselves... actually wait... that should read... they will first go out and harm other people then themselves....LancsLad said:I would like to suggest that we encourage him to run with any bladed object as often as possible.
Kimveer Gill is a Sikh name...
I am not an expert, but just to clarify for many people: (those who know better, please correct me if there is a mistake)
1. East Indian is a racial group
2. West Indians are East Indians who went to the Carribbean as indentured servants
3. Sikhism is a religion.. as far as I know... most Sikhs are East Indians
4. Hinduism is a religion... typicially Hindus have not gone about converting other people...therefore most Hindus
are East Indians
5. Muslim (?) is a religion... They (like Christians) want to convert people to their religion...
Muslims have converts from many racial groups... including Blacks, Indians and Middle Eastern people
6. The people of Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, etc... are not East Indians (I don't really understand this)... The people
in Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. are mainly East Indian and Muslims
If I understand correctly, Gill's family were not Sikhs and he grew up in Laval.... This was one screwed up fellow... he lived in a french dominated community, probably one of the few minorities in his community, and then gets into his goth/heavy metal stage... obviously he had many issues..... there is no ideological or political motive other than he was probably very depressed, and believed that the world was against him.... too bad that he could not find the help that he needed....
Good point, what about him and all his buddies running down the emerg stairs in a tall aprtment building all carrying sharp bladed objects. Confined space will eliminate the collateral civilian damage.slowandeasy said:Unfortunately, these types will just go out and harm other people not themselves...
I like that one...... perhaps we could include some politicians, child molesters, and pedophiles in that group as well...LancsLad said:Good point, what about him and all his buddies running down the emerg stairs in a tall aprtment building all carrying sharp bladed objects. Confined space will eliminate the collateral civilian damage.
correction...MarkJfr said:Hi guys,
The horrific events that terrorised the innocent school kids in Montreal, made all of us sad. I could not beleive that such an event would happen. I hope that all affected become good and return to their normal life.
But this event , in the light of the on going terrorism around the world, was carried out by a Christian, a non-muslim this time. Yet the media and people here dismissed this as non-terrorism related. Though I saw on tv the horror that these kids felt as they ran away from the College, I was surprised that the Prime Minister did not call this event Terrorism. Is it because the person who carried out this terrorism was a non-muslim or not an Arab or a middle easterner? Why the double standards and the hypocrasy?
Terrorism is terrorism, it knows no religion, race or boarders or anything. Its aim is to frighten us all into going along with the objectives of the terrorists.
The media should have regarded this event as terrorist act on innocent kids, and not overlook somthing as serious as this, just because the terrorist this time is not a muslim or an Arab.
On a final note, I beleive that more and more people have died in the name of religions and G-d. Its time to recognize that religion is made to control the masses by social monks, the earlier you liberate your mind from this, the better off humanity will become. Think science, evolution, space exploration, and good life.
my 2 cents.
Peace.
1. the guy wasnt christian, he was indian, his name reveals he was sikh.
2. he was a goth (i didnt kno there were indian goths out there lol) & just as messed up as any other goth, now ofcourse other goths dont go on a shooting spree so he decided to "kick it up a notch"...but the fact is pretty much all goths have the same mindset which is hatred & isolation frm the rest of the world.
3. even criminals, murderers instill fear in ppl but they're not labelled as terrorists...this act was much like columbine which wasnt a terror act.
& last but not least...
4. he was fucked in the head.
This is a classic example of how " out of the box " thinking can provide solutions to many problems. See TERB works.slowandeasy said:I like that one...... perhaps we could include some politicians, child molesters, and pedophiles in that group as well...
...and whites.. chechnya, bosnia *ahem*slowandeasy said:Unfortunately, these types will just go out and harm other people not themselves... actually wait... that should read... they will first go out and harm other people then themselves....
Kimveer Gill is a Sikh name...
I am not an expert, but just to clarify for many people: (those who know better, please correct me if there is a mistake)
1. East Indian is a racial group
2. West Indians are East Indians who went to the Carribbean as indentured servants
3. Sikhism is a religion.. as far as I know... most Sikhs are East Indians
4. Hinduism is a religion... typicially Hindus have not gone about converting other people...therefore most Hindus
are East Indians
5. Muslim (?) is a religion... They (like Christians) want to convert people to their religion...
Muslims have converts from many racial groups... including Blacks, Indians and Middle Eastern people
6. The people of Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, etc... are not East Indians (I don't really understand this)... The people
in Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. are mainly East Indian and Muslims
If I understand correctly, Gill's family were not Sikhs and he grew up in Laval.... This was one screwed up fellow... he lived in a french dominated community, probably one of the few minorities in his community, and then gets into his goth/heavy metal stage... obviously he had many issues..... there is no ideological or political motive other than he was probably very depressed, and believed that the world was against him.... too bad that he could not find the help that he needed....
pakis & bangladeshis r not east indians, they used to b but after partition, they're not anymore...they're just referred to as south asians...ur making blind assumptions based on their skin colour.
You don't quite know what you are talking about... (or maybe I don't but I am going to plow ahead anyways)...racingsoul said:...and whites.. chechnya, bosnia *ahem*
pakis & bangladeshis r not east indians, they used to b but after partition, they're not anymore...they're just referred to as south asians...ur making blind assumptions based on their skin colour.
I am trying to distinguish between race/ethnic groups... I am not an anthropologist, or whoever would be an expert in this area... But I do know that there are differences between races...
White People
Black People
Brown People (East Indians)
Aboriginals
Inuit/Eskimos etc...
and these races are categorized similar to different variations of butterfly or horses in the scientific world (don't ask me how, I was sleeping when they were doing the classifications during science classes)... but I did stay awake enough to know that there is a banch of science that does this... So white people have a number of similar characteristics that will qualify them to be caucasians etc...
I.E. The monarch butterfly
CLASSIFICATION
Order: Lepidoptera (butterflies and moths)
Family: Nymphalidae (over 5,000 species of butterflies with dwarfed front legs)
Subfamily: Danaidae (milkweed butterflies)
Genus and species: Danaus plexippus
And from what I have read, The people from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are from the same race... and that race is commonly referred to as East Indian...
i dont kno how much time u spent researching all the science stuff but i'll tell u something right out of experience...i've got paki friends & i kno some bangladeshi ppl who prefer NOT being called east indians, they much rather hav ppl call'em south asians....west indians can only trace their ancestry india but after having spent so many centuries in the carribean they're now called WEST indians....same race doesnt mean same classification, ofcourse u cant call a french person english or a polish person german, now can u?slowandeasy said:You don't quite know what you are talking about... (or maybe I don't but I am going to plow ahead anyways)...
I am trying to distinguish between race/ethnic groups... I am not an anthropologist, or whoever would be an expert in this area... But I do know that there are differences between races...
White People
Black People
Brown People (East Indians)
Aboriginals
Inuit/Eskimos etc...
and these races are categorized similar to different variations of butterfly or horses in the scientific world (don't ask me how, I was sleeping when they were doing the classifications during science classes)... but I did stay awake enough to know that there is a banch of science that does this... So white people have a number of similar characteristics that will qualify them to be caucasians etc...
I.E. The monarch butterfly
CLASSIFICATION
Order: Lepidoptera (butterflies and moths)
Family: Nymphalidae (over 5,000 species of butterflies with dwarfed front legs)
Subfamily: Danaidae (milkweed butterflies)
Genus and species: Danaus plexippus
And from what I have read, The people from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are from the same race... and that race is commonly referred to as East Indian...
so mayb u didnt kno what u were talking abt...i appreciate the effort anyway.
