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Supreme Court of Canada will release its decision on the Bedford, Lebovitch and Scott

MattRoxx

Call me anti-fascist
Nov 13, 2011
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I get around.
If this government dares to try and tell me who I can have consensual sex with, or who I can give money or gifts to, it`s probably going to increase the frequency I indulge.
Thanks for posting this. Everyone on terb should take 15 minutes away from posting about politics or finding the ultimate bj or arguing about the city`s best pizza/chicken wings/burgers/poutine and fill out that survey.

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canada-man

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Prostitution is illegal in most African countries, notably South Africa. India, another large commonwealth state still has laws that are very similar to the ones that were struck in Canada. Hong Kong, prior to its reversion to the PRC, made prostitution illegal.

Of course, in Canada, we generally enforce the laws that we have. Not so much in less developed countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hong_Kong

prostitution is legal in Hong Kong. PRC laws don't apply in hong kong
 

canada-man

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Did you read the entire wiki?
Legal issues


Prostitution in Hong Kong is legal, but subject to various restrictions, mainly intended to keep it away from the public eye.
 

freedom3

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Canada is the only Commonwealth country that prohibits its residents to sponsor their fiancees from overseas unless they marry first. Even USA is not that crazy.
Why is that crazy? If they are married, they have the right to support (ie. he pays, not welfare).
 

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
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Legal issues


Prostitution in Hong Kong is legal, but subject to various restrictions, mainly intended to keep it away from the public eye.

Umm, ya. "Is" now legal. But, whilst it was a British colony?
 

rld

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In no Commonwealth country is prostitution illegal (that I'm aware of). I find it highly unlikely that Canada would be the first.
What you mean to say is that in no first world commonwealth country is prostitution currently illegal. It has been illegal in almost all of them in the past. So if Canada made is illegal, they would not be the "first."

I think it is bad policy to make it illegal, but there is no constitutional or human rights bar to doing so. The issue is now a political one (primarily).
 

dreamblade

Punster Extraordinaire
Feb 8, 2005
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in my pants, where there's a party
What you mean to say is that in no first world commonwealth country is prostitution currently illegal. It has been illegal in almost all of them in the past. So if Canada made is illegal, they would not be the "first."

I think it is bad policy to make it illegal, but there is no constitutional or human rights bar to doing so. The issue is now a political one (primarily).
The issue is far from being just political, it's very much a social one as well. As it stands, most Canadians are ok with sex work, just most adopt a NIMBY approach. Making sex work illegal would not only be a huge mistake, considering the current way of thinking, it would also involve a huge move on behalf of the ruling party to justify as to why should it be made illegal. Despite what many say, the PM cannot just pull legislation out of his ass.
 

TeasePlease

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Aug 3, 2010
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The issue is far from being just political, it's very much a social one as well. As it stands, most Canadians are ok with sex work, just most adopt a NIMBY approach. Making sex work illegal would not only be a huge mistake, considering the current way of thinking, it would also involve a huge move on behalf of the ruling party to justify as to why should it be made illegal. Despite what many say, the PM cannot just pull legislation out of his ass.

Agreed. The public policy statements of the CPC would suggest that they would prefer to abolish prostitution altogether, but that won't fly. It wouldn't be a matter of John's taking to the streets to protest their right to pooning. However, it would be a fairly easy argument for civil libertarians. Plus, as you say, the public sentiment just isn't there.

I do believe that this is an issue on which the CPC can easily appease its base, which has long grumbled about erosion (mainly from the Reform party legacy members and the far right/religious core).

I'd bet that this is simply posturing and positioning. They will come out with something that continues to restrict or even prohibit elements of prostitution, but will appear as though it's better than outright criminalization.
 

rld

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The issue is far from being just political, it's very much a social one as well. As it stands, most Canadians are ok with sex work, just most adopt a NIMBY approach. Making sex work illegal would not only be a huge mistake, considering the current way of thinking, it would also involve a huge move on behalf of the ruling party to justify as to why should it be made illegal. Despite what many say, the PM cannot just pull legislation out of his ass.
I agree completely. I just just making the distinction between political and legal.

Political, should include social. As I said above, I think criminalizing it is bad policy.

This PM, who may be a lame duck, has a pretty good control over cabinet. Depending on their future strategy perspective they might be willing to do this. In fact, they might have to, considering their western base. Let's hope not.

They could also bury it in a bigger bill. I suspect that this issue is not one that drives many conservative voters, but I could be wrong.
 

TeasePlease

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It would be positioned as a family values issue, which the Cons could use to their advantage to appeal to female voters (traditionally not a loyal following).
 

afterhours

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Quote Originally Posted by afterhours
Canada is the only Commonwealth country that prohibits its residents to sponsor their fiancees from overseas unless they marry first. Even USA is not that crazy.

Why is that crazy? If they are married, they have the right to support (ie. he pays, not welfare).
It's crazy because you as a citizen are denied a right to go overseas and bring your fiance over. No other Commonwealth country disrespects their citizens that much.

Just as an illustration: I know a guy who brought a wife over to have family and kids with her. Turns out, she cannot have kids. She is younger and refuses to work. He is stuck with her and is unhappy as fuck. Had he been allowed to bring her as a fiance, he would have kicked her ass back home and married somebody else.
 

canada-man

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Quote Originally Posted by afterhours
Canada is the only Commonwealth country that prohibits its residents to sponsor their fiancees from overseas unless they marry first. Even USA is not that crazy.


It's crazy because you as a citizen are denied a right to go overseas and bring your fiance over. No other Commonwealth country disrespects their citizens that much.

Just as an illustration: I know a guy who brought a wife over to have family and kids with her. Turns out, she cannot have kids. She is younger and refuses to work. He is stuck with her and is unhappy as fuck. Had he been allowed to bring her as a fiance, he would have kicked her ass back home and married somebody else.
stop repeating that lie one can bring a foreign spouse to Canada. and why did you contradict yourself in the second sentence about a man who brought is wife over.

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/immigrate/tips-for-sponsoring-a-spouse-from-outside-canada
 

canada-man

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Tories’ call for more research on prostitution laws could be stalling tactic

OTTAWA—The Supreme Court of Canada’s decision in December to strike down three federal criminal laws against adult prostitution left the Conservative government scrambling and apparently looking to buy time.
In an interview last week with Montreal’s La Presse, Justice Minister Peter MacKay said he wants to study international laws on prostitution especially the “Nordic” model that criminalizes pimps and johns.
But MacKay does not have to look far.
Parliament has already extensively studied — and the Conservative government rejected — any legal reform that would relax a tough-on-crime approach to prostitution.

In a little-noticed report by subcommittee of the Commons justice committee in late 2006, Conservative MPs called for tougher criminal laws that “clearly target abusers (johns and pimps).” The Conservatives on the committee recommended even heavier fines to deter offenders and to pay for rehabilitation and support for “the victims they create.”
That’s a partial nod to the approach taken in countries like Norway, Sweden and Iceland. But the only easing of criminal sanctions against prostitutes that Conservative MPs would back — at the time — was a legal regime that would allow first-time prostitutes to avoid a criminal record yet would still apply criminal sanction against anyone freely choosing to sell sexual services and trying to “benefit from the ‘business’ of prostitution.”
The committee — whose work first began in 2003 under the previous Liberal government and concluded in December 2006 under the Conservatives — had stopped and started due to two prorogations and elections.
In the end it heard from some 300 witnesses, including Canadian prostitutes, their clients, police officers, lawyers, women and aboriginal groups, academics and international experts from Sweden and other countries.
But after all that, the committee was unable to reach a consensus on what legal reforms were required. It agreed only that the status quo wasn’t working.
Tabled in the Commons on Dec. 13, 2006, the committee report contained a majority recommendation by the opposition parties that called for an approach that targets “exploitation and nuisance” through Criminal Code laws of general application against “public disturbance, indecent exhibition, coercion, sexual assault, trafficking in persons, extortion, kidnapping, etc.”
The majority of MPs on the committee — made up of opposition members — said “it is preferable to concentrate our efforts on combating exploitation and violence in the context of prostitution, rather than criminalizing consenting adults who engage in sexual activities for money.”
But the Conservative MPs disagreed.
They argued against any further decriminalization, saying no one’s consent to choose to practice the world’s oldest profession could be understood to be freely given.
Indeed, Conservative MPs said law enforcement efforts should be beefed up against all forms of prostitution, whether it’s found in the street, in escort services, massage parlours, bawdy houses or anywhere else.
And the Conservative government agreed.
MacKay’s predecessor, then-Justice Minister Rob Nicholson, replied on March 30, 2007 to politely thank the committee for its work, calling it “the most up to date research on the issue, including an overview of prostitution generally and those involved in it and the evidence that exists in relation to prostitution in Canada.”
But the government’s bottom line, just a few short years ago, was to reject further relaxation of laws.
“This government condemns any conduct that results in exploitation or abuse, and accordingly does not support any reforms, such as decriminalization, that would facilitate such exploitation,” replied Nicholson.
The committee said “it did not hear sufficient evidence with respect to the impact of the legal and social reforms emerging from other countries to address prostitution,” and urged more research. Nicholson appeared to ignore that in his response.
“This government continues to address prostitution by focusing on reducing its prevalence. This involves prevention, education and awareness initiatives, supporting programs that encourage those involved in the sex trade toward exit programs, and focusing on consistent enforcement of the criminal law,” he replied.
Since then, two lower courts and the country’s top court weighed in, overturning the laws as unconstitutional because of their grossly disproportional effect on vulnerable, marginalized persons.
In December, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled Criminal Code prohibitions against brothels, living on the avails of prostitution and against communicating for the purposes of prostitution drive vulnerable women onto the streets, in back alleys or cars, with no ability to hire security guards or drivers or to screen “bad dates.”
“The prohibitions . . . go a critical step further, by imposing dangerous conditions on prostitution; they prevent people engaged in a risky — but legal — activity from taking steps to protect themselves from the risks,” wrote Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin in the 9-0 ruling.
The high court suspended the effect of its ruling for 12 months, giving the federal government a year to re-write the law or allow adult prostitution to flourish unregulated. The case did not challenge child prostitution laws or laws against human trafficking. Those remain intact.
It’s not clear what further study MacKay would like to see Parliament undertake, although he mused that a Conservative senator’s proposal to have the Senate do the study was interesting. His office has not yet responded to a Star inquiry.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ostitution_laws_could_be_stalling_tactic.html
 

afterhours

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canada-man

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freedom3

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Just as an illustration: I know a guy who brought a wife over to have family and kids with her. Turns out, she cannot have kids. She is younger and refuses to work. He is stuck with her and is unhappy as fuck. Had he been allowed to bring her as a fiance, he would have kicked her ass back home and married somebody else.
That's not what would happen at all. What would happen is that she would stay here on welfare for ten years while the appeals court dealt with her deportation. Then you and I and all taxpayers would be paying her welfare. I would rather the guy who brought her pays. He made the decision, not the taxpayer.
 

james1961

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Jul 2, 2013
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That's not what would happen at all. What would happen is that she would stay here on welfare for ten years while the appeals court dealt with her deportation. Then you and I and all taxpayers would be paying her welfare. I would rather the guy who brought her pays. He made the decision, not the taxpayer.
A Canadian has to sponsor. Here is a case. A guy marries a foreign girl, she gets her papers. She then leaves him, marries another guy, has children. That ends and she goes on welfare.

Guess who got the knock on the door to pay the bill? the sponsor
True story
 

Morning Glory

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Sep 18, 2012
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A Canadian has to sponsor. Here is a case. A guy marries a foreign girl, she gets her papers. She then leaves him, marries another guy, has children. That ends and she goes on welfare.

Guess who got the knock on the door to pay the bill? the sponsor
True story
Without prejudice.. In the overall picture something is not working here (or is it?) whether the wife kids are of immigrant families or other means of getting here, women shelters and government funded housing in central Ontario are almost at capacity with such. ( Russian, Romania , etc). You may not believe this,but most are very attractive women with kids,and whether by justified means or not this is happening because it can in CANADA. I do believe in human rights and safety of women n children, yet someone is paying and it sure looks like it not the husbands or sponsors, its the taxpayer. Not to confuse the issue just some true facts.
 
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