Steriods

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Unnatural doses of natural substances… kinda like the same thing as pharmaceuticals no?
Its not even close to being the same thing.

Steroids have serious side-effects, natural substances mostly dont (even at higher doses).
Steroids are illegal, natural substances are not.
Steroids are expensive, natural substances are less expensive.
Steroids sometimes come from countries that have poor quality control, natural substances dont (if you stick with name brands).
Steroids cause withdrawal symptoms when you stop them, natural substances dont
 
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massman

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Its not even close to being the same thing.

Steroids have serious side-effects, natural substances mostly dont (even at higher doses).
Steroids are illegal, natural substances are not.
Steroids are expensive, natural substances are less expensive.
Steroids sometimes come from countries that have poor quality control, natural substances dont (if you stick with name brands).
Steroids cause withdrawal symptoms when you stop them, natural substances dont
My point is just because something is “natural” doesn’t mean it is necessarily safe (or effective). I agree with you about the hazards of misuse of steroids though.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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My point is just because something is “natural” doesn’t mean it is necessarily safe (or effective)
Thats true, but D-Aspartic acid is recognized by FDA as GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe).
And FDA doesnt hand out GRAS designations very easily. They do rigorous testing

 
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NotTheCatThatYouLike

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Thats true, but D-Aspartic acid is recognized by FDA as GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe).
And FDA doesnt hand out GRAS designations very easily. They do rigorous testing
D-Aspartic acid does not push testosterone to a supranational level. So, men, who already have their test levels close to the reference line, will not see any benefits from it. I don't think if there was a safer alternative to steroids, people would still use them.
 
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NotTheCatThatYouLike

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Steroids are expensive, natural substances are less expensive.
The basic test cycle will cost almost nothing :)
Steroids sometimes come from countries that have poor quality control, natural substances dont (if you stick with name brands).
:) That is so untrue, mostly because most steroids are domestically made, since they are illegal, so moving large batches of steroids across the border would be impossible.
Steroids have serious side-effects, natural substances mostly dont (even at higher doses).
depends on genetics. In general, if taken with care, steroids will not cause that much harm. However, men who takes them, don't often show much care haha
 

NotTheCatThatYouLike

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This guy has it all wrong.

Gym rats can be some of the most confident individuals you'll ever meet. Almost to a fault.
I actually agree with him on that. Confidence can be faked, but inside a lot of gym rats are quite insecure (talking from my own experience).
 

NotTheCatThatYouLike

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BTW, i am not arguing that steroids are safe - they are not (a part of TRT), but steroids are the only mean of going beyond physical capabilities. Even if I load the entire shelf of Jameson supplements from Rexall in myself somehow, I will not even come closer to what a simple 500mg of test a week can do to testosterone levels.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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:) That is so untrue, mostly because most steroids are domestically made, since they are illegal, so moving large batches of steroids across the border would be impossible
I'm talking mostly about roids made in Mexico, Asia, or Eastern-Europe.
This NYT article doesnt mention steroids in particular, but the same reasoning applies to them as well


F.D.A. officials say medications from Mexico are difficult to trace and may be manufactured improperly, stored incorrectly, mislabeled or contain an inaccurate amount of the active ingredient. The drugs are manufactured by Mexican pharmaceutical companies or American companies with plants in Mexico, or they come from as far away as India.

'When you buy these foreign drugs you could be getting anything from a counterfeit to a sugar pill,'' said William K. Hubbard, the senior associate commissioner for policy, planning and legislation for the F.D.A.
 

wigglee

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Cancer
Lyle Alzado / Cause of death

But in 1992, seven years after playing in his last regular-season game, Alzado died from brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. He was 43. Although there is no medical link between steroids and brain lymphoma, Alzado was certain the drugs were responsible for his cancer.
I met him and he did blame the steroids for the cancer
 

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
Anyone try growth hormone?
Know a few persons that are taking Genotropin made by Pfizer.

Getting through a prescription in Ontario. Picking it up in their local pharmacy.

Comes in a 36 I.U. pen. They're doing 2 I.U. a day....Nothing crazy. I've known guys personally who have taken 10 to 12 I.U's a day.....That's crazy.

Both of these gents are non competitive bodybuilders. The one is using hoping to help him recover from a severe work related concussion while the other has weight training related injuries he's trying to rehab. Both are experiencing positive effects and are cycling on and off mainly because of cost. If I remember correctly a pen goes for about $385. So that's about $700 a month or around about.

Underground GH like Hygetropin has 100 I.U. in what they call a ''kit''. It's about $275 or so. So significantly cheaper. Problem is that you just don't know exactly what you are buying. They're like all underground gear is coming from China. So it's a crap shoot. Best to stay very far away.
 

Fugly

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Know a few persons that are taking Genotropin made by Pfizer.

Getting through a prescription in Ontario. Picking it up in their local pharmacy.

Comes in a 36 I.U. pen. They're doing 2 I.U. a day....Nothing crazy. I've known guys personally who have taken 10 to 12 I.U's a day.....That's crazy.

Both of these gents are non competitive bodybuilders. The one is using hoping to help him recover from a severe work related concussion while the other has weight training related injuries he's trying to rehab. Both are experiencing positive effects and are cycling on and off mainly because of cost. If I remember correctly a pen goes for about $385. So that's about $700 a month or around about.

Underground GH like Hygetropin has 100 I.U. in what they call a ''kit''. It's about $275 or so. So significantly cheaper. Problem is that you just don't know exactly what you are buying. They're like all underground gear is coming from China. So it's a crap shoot. Best to stay very far away.
Exactly. Canadian ug labs get their raw material/powders from china. Do you want to inject that into your body? It doesn’t matter how good the ug lab is, China can’t make a fuckin frisbee that isnt toxic. Be careful. I guess I’m a bit of a hypocrite because I’ve used the stuff and survived….so far. Live and learn
 

The Oracle

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OTC test boosters is a scam. They can boost testosterone in males back to their baseline (even that is not prooven, since none of them are approved by FDA or reviewed by any study), but never push over the limit like basic testosterone does. I go to the same gym for 3 years now, most men there cannot put any significant amount of muscle even though they go to gym quite regularly

The problem is, most fitness-type guys use PEDs nowadays as well. Just in lesser amounts.
.
Had a friend once in the mid 90's so we're going back some who got his free testosterone levels measured and then went on Tribulus for 3 months. Then he retested. His free test was up by 30%. Which doesn't add up to a hill of beans really.

There's some real hard gainers out there. That's for sure. I've seen a lot of guys just plain over train. In my mind training for over 45 minutes at a time is just going to lead to a big surge in cortisol. Putting one in a catabolic state. So get in and get it out.

I see a lot of attempting to train to heavy as well. Who cares how much you can bench? Keep your joints healthy. Train lighter and take less time in between sets. I'm partial to walking on off days now. Maybe with a weighted vest. Never would have thought that years ago.

A high degree of all of this is nutrition. In my view mabe 80% and I mean food not supplements. Now I see value in Whey but some individuals are taking loads of pre workout and all kinds of concoctions. The nutrition industry is fairly corrupt. I wouldn't trust most of what is out there. It's not as if it is tested for quality control.

It takes years to dial in what will work for you. We're all individuals in the end. Only through trial and error will one find out what is best for them. Oh and question everything you're told...There is scammers everywhere.
 

The Oracle

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Exactly. Canadian ug labs get their raw material/powders from china. Do you want to inject that into your body? It doesn’t matter how good the ug lab is, China can’t make a fuckin frisbee that isnt toxic. Be careful. I guess I’m a bit of a hypocrite because I’ve used the stuff and survived….so far. Live and learn
The interesting thing Pfizer who makes Depot Testosterone cypionate, Valeant who makes delatestryl (Test enanthate) etc. All get their raw materials from China as well.

The difference is that they have stringent quality control whereas your basic underground labs can't come near that. To my knowledge they mostly try their best but just don't have the financial resources to do it.

Fugly don't beat yourself up....What's done is done. There's no use staring in the rear view mirror.
 

Fugly

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The interesting thing Pfizer who makes Depot Testosterone cypionate, Valeant who makes delatestryl (Test enanthate) etc. All get their raw materials from China as well.

The difference is that they have stringent quality control whereas your basic underground labs can't come near that. To my knowledge they mostly try their best but just don't have the financial resources to do it.

Fugly don't beat yourself up....What's done is done. There's no use staring in the rear view mirror.
Thank you for your input and words of support. I don’t know if I beat myself up but I do have regrets (but don’t we all). I started using in the late 80s/early 90s. There was an abundance of legit pharmaceutical gear. It was a crazy time. I used a lot and to be honest, my level of understanding was minimal. Then Ben Johnson got busted, then the Dubin inquiry shut down the legit gear market. Mexican “vet” labs stepped in quickly and the supply was unlimited. Operation Gear Grinder shut down the mex labs and it’s been UG since. I did a few ug cycles. After a few health scares I called it quits. I still consider TRT on ocassion but I doubt I’ll go down that road. That ship has sailed. Thanks for your input. You’re enviously Knowledgeable on the subject
 
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NotADcotor

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Take OTC testosterone boosters like tribulus or d-aspartic acid coupled with creatine, and you can easily grow 10 to 20 lbs of muscle.
You can easily gain 10 to 20 pounds of muscle without that stuff. Aside from minimal effects of creatine, the other stuff is just expensive piss.
 

The Oracle

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Thank you for your input and words of support. I don’t know if I beat myself up but I do have regrets (but don’t we all). I started using in the late 80s/early 90s. There was an abundance of legit pharmaceutical gear. It was a crazy time. I used a lot and to be honest, my level of understanding was minimal. Then Ben Johnson got busted, then the Dubin inquiry shut down the legit gear market. Mexican “vet” labs stepped in quickly and the supply was unlimited. Operation Gear Grinder shut down the mex labs and it’s been UG since. I did a few ug cycles. After a few health scares I called it quits. I still consider TRT on ocassion but I doubt I’ll go down that road. That ship has sailed. Thanks for your input. You’re enviously Knowledgeable on the subject
Yeah the Mexican lab out of Tijuana called the Milano Lab if I recall. I remember the Sustanon preloads that were 18 gage. It was like a harpoon. There was Sten tabs and Sten injectible. All were somewhat reliable.

After that there was the European invasion. All the injectables came in ampules with a little saw. There was Testoviron from Schering, Sustanon from Organon, Stanozolol from Zambon in Spain, Oxytosana I think the name was which was oxymetholone from Syntex.... Once everybody started popping on the Tour De France that was pretty much the end of that.

The Dubin inquiry ended the vet stuff being available in Canada. Everything had to be accounted for and licenses and careers were at stake. I remember Univet in Milton got broken into an obscene amount of times one year. Winstrol V, Unibol and Testosterone suspension were always the target. Winthrop stopped maked Winstrol V because they didn't want to associated with the product.

Then there was the counterfeit underground pre internet that was completely bogus. That was a thing for a while. A whole lotta fake Dianabol that did diddly squat. Some Deca Durabolin and A50's as well.

Some ingenious people figured out they could make Trenbolone Acetate from Finaplix pellets. It worked great that's for sure.
Wasn't too hard to get the pellets if knew the right farmer. Of course we now know just how potent this one is but nobody knew back then. Although the first Tren from Negma Labs called Parabolin has been around for about a decade or so. But most of it was fake. Kids don't do Trenbolone it's scary stuff.

Thanks to the interweb the underground labs were born. Information was much easily obtained. Dan Duchaine's underground steroid handbook was now obsolete. The Bill Phillips Anabolic Reference guide era came and went as did his magazine Muscle Media 2000. Yes all those lifters graduating with their chemistry degrees could put them to work and pay off those college loans. Raw materials could be purchased along with bottles and labels from the world's factory that doesn't ask many questions China. Just gotta figure out how to buy a dehydrating machine and pill press. where there is a will there is generally a way though.

TRT has been a saviour for some guys. The sub Q injections two or three times weekly seem to be all the rage now. Guys are feeling like teenagers again. There's FB forum's with thousands of members which discuss this topic daily. Some really smart dudes on there. Nelson Vergel has a site called Excelmale.com. He's in my opinion the top expert in TRT at the moment. He would never say that though. Very humble guy. He's helped a lot of people navigate through hormone replacement. Unfortunately the average GP, endocrinologist, urologist in Canada and the U.S. is surprise surprise years behind on what the proper protocols are.

Anyways my message as always is stay natural. Think long term and not short term. Don't compare yourself against others.
 
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Fugly

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You can easily gain 10 to 20 pounds of muscle without that stuff. Aside from minimal effects of creatine, the other stuff is just expensive piss.
Test boo
Yeah the Mexican lab out of Tijuana called the Milano Lab if I recall. I remember the Sustanon preloads that were 18 gage. It was like a harpoon. There was Sten tabs and Sten injectible. All were somewhat reliable.

After that there was the European invasion. All the injectables came in ampules with a little saw. There was Testoviron from Schering, Sustanon from Organon, Stanozolol from Zambon in Spain, Oxytosana I think the name was which was oxymetholone from Syntex.... Once everybody started popping on the Tour De France that was pretty much the end of that.

The Dubin inquiry ended the vet stuff being available in Canada. Everything had to be accounted for and licenses and careers were at stake. I remember Univet in Milton got broken into an obscene amount of times one year. Winstrol V, Unibol and Testosterone suspension were always the target. Winthrop stopped maked Winstrol V because they didn't want to associated with the product.

Then there was the counterfeit underground pre internet that was completely bogus. That was a thing for a while. A whole lotta fake Dianabol that did diddly squat. Some Deca Durabolin and A50's as well.

Some ingenious people figured out they could make Trenbolone Acetate from Finaplix pellets. It worked great that's for sure.
Wasn't too hard to get the pellets if knew the right farmer. Of course we now know just how potent this one is but nobody knew back then. Although the first Tren from Negma Labs called Parabolin has been around for about a decade or so. But most of it was fake. Kids don't do Trenbolone it's scary stuff.

Thanks to the interweb the underground labs were born. Information was much easily obtained. Dan Duchaine's underground steroid handbook was now obsolete. The Bill Phillips Anabolic Reference guide era came and went as did his magazine Muscle Media 2000. Yes all those lifters graduating with their chemistry degrees could put them to work and pay off those college loans. Raw materials could be purchased along with bottles and labels from the world's factory that doesn't ask many questions China. Just gotta figure out how to buy a dehydrating machine and pill press. where there is a will there is generally a way though.

TRT has been a saviour for some guys. The sub Q injections two or three times weekly seem to be all the rage now. Guys are feeling like teenagers again. There's FB forum's with thousands of members which discuss this topic daily. Some really smart dudes on there. Nelson Vergel has a site called Excelmale.com. He's in my opinion the top expert in TRT at the moment. He would never say that though. Very humble guy. He's helped a lot of people navigate through hormone replacement. Unfortunately the average GP, endocrinologist, urologist in Canada and the U.S. is surprise surprise years behind on what the proper protocols are.

Anyways my message as always is stay natural. Think long term and not short term. Don't compare yourself against others.
Nice bit of info here and you bring back some memories. Univet test suspension and winstrol V, Zambon winstrol Organon sustanon…. As I recall, there were a bunch of Mexican labs shut by Gear Grinder. Brovel, Syd group (originally from Australia with their goofy boxing kangaroo labels), Quality Vet, Tokkyo labs, and Denjall to name a few.
 
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The Oracle

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Test boo

Nice bit of info here and you bring back some memories. Univet test suspension and winstrol V, Zambon winstrol Organon sustanon…. As I recall, there were a bunch of Mexican labs shut by Gear Grinder. Brovel, Syd group (originally from Australia with their goofy boxing kangaroo labels), Quality Vet, Tokkyo labs, and Denjall to name a few.
Yeah the goofy boxing labels,lol....I forgot that one. There was Koala bear one there for a bit.I'd forgot about Brovel and Tokkyo labs as well. Now you're bringing back memories to me.
 
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