State Of The Union Address

[papasmerf]

Taking down the doomed jets was the ethical and just thing to do.
Noone would have questioned that decision once all the facts are
presented to the public. That is an easy ethical and political
decision. They already ran exercises to do such a thing.

My criticism of Bush is that he didn't hit the ground running when he
was sworn in. He was absent from the White House on frequent
vacations. He wasn't minding the store.

Don

I can't agree with you. Were the millitary to have taken out the jet that hit the Pentagon and admitted it the fallout would have been unmanagable.

As it is GAYos is making an issue out of the fact it was able to hit the Pentagon. Can you picture the accusations he would toss about if it was shot down?

 

[papasmerf]

Pops,

I don't think we'll ever have an insight into that scenario.
Post 9/11 there won't be an argument. Pre 9/11 is an
entirely different issue. Certainly there would have been
an initial backlash. We would have had to have very
hard evidence that was their intentions.

I agree, it could go either way. Monday morning second
guessing is always easy in the abstract. What could
have been done that Monday morning in September is
hard to call.

Agreeied

 

[Gyaos]

Not speculation at all. Was me that was glad not you.
Now I ask you what would you have had the President do?

Well, first, Bush Jr. not ignoring the memo. At the time of attack, leave the classroom, rather than continue with his education. Third, an immediate order to ground all aircraft at the time of the first strike. He didn't know what to do, so he called Dick. Bad move.

And for ALL skyscrapers, in general, something that is off-topic with the President, emergency parachutes in all floors. What's there now? Just a fire extingusher, hose and an "escape" plan?

Anyway, Bush Jr. was a reason, directly and indirectly that caused 9-11. He continues to use it as a political tool to extend power, rather than going and getting them. He is taking his sweet time. He must be forced to resign.

In fact, during his KY speech yesterday he said "the United States calling Al Queda" before he corrected himself. Something tells me he talks to them as golf-buddies. Wiretap Bush Jr.!!

Gyaos.

 

[TOVisitor]

Oh c'mon ... no one could have imagined that someone would fly a plane into a building!

{Oh how about reading a Tom Clancy novel from several years earlier or reading memos from Richard Clarke.}

This, of course, from the woman who said about Hamas winning the recent election in Palestine (I paraphrase): "No one could have imagined Hamas winning the election."

WTF is this woman good for?

 

[papasmerf]

Well, first, Bush Jr. not ignoring the memo. At the time of attack, leave the classroom, rather than continue with his education. Third, an immediate order to ground all aircraft at the time of the first strike. He didn't know what to do, so he called Dick. Bad move.

And for ALL skyscrapers, in general, something that is off-topic with the President, emergency parachutes in all floors. What's there now? Just a fire extingusher, hose and an "escape" plan?

Anyway, Bush Jr. was a reason, directly and indirectly that caused 9-11. He continues to use it as a political tool to extend power, rather than going and getting them. He is taking his sweet time. He must be forced to resign.

In fact, during his KY speech yesterday he said "the United States calling Al Queda" before he corrected himself. Something tells me he talks to them as golf-buddies. Wiretap Bush Jr.!!

Gyaos.

Parachutes on all floors???????????

That is about as silly as I can immangine. Who would train the common folk and who would determine the minimum height to jump. There is a reason base jumping is illegal.

 

[papasmerf]

Someone called? What's the pay schedule and health care benefits?

Don, Airborne.

Minmum wage and no bennies

Tax reform would make your nights easier

 

[papasmerf]

Tax reform is an oxymoron. They take out, they put in.
Taxes aren't going anywhere. And, when you hear tax
reform grab on to your wallet because the reform isn't
going to help you or I one red penny. Count on it.
31 years playing this irrational game only reinforces
my personal opinion.

I'd much rather get in a couple jumps. Talk about
an adrenal high. Only outdone by being shot at.
I'd love to try it again.

Not even a life insurance policy. Bummer.

Come on up and after a few beers you might get me to jump

 

[red]

Divisive? strange statement coming from a Vietnam vet. Have you forgotten how you guys been treated, when you returned?

Debatting the issue is one thing, showing weakness to your enemy and demoralizing your own troops is a different story.

"If we confuse dissent with disloyalty - if we deny the right of the individual to be wrong, unpopular, eccentric or unorthodox - if we deny the essence of racial equality then hundreds of millions in Asia and Africa who are shopping about for a new allegiance will conclude that we are concerned to defend a myth and our present privileged status. Every act that denies or limits the freedom of the individual in this country costs us the ... confidence of men and women who aspire to that freedom and independence of which we speak and for which our ancestors fought." Edward R Murrow

 

[red]

"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine; and remember that we are not descended from fearful men. Not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular.
This is no time for men who oppose Senator McCarthy's methods to keep silent, or for those who approve. We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of a republic to abdicate his responsibilities. As a nation we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. The actions of the junior Senator from Wisconsin have caused alarm and dismay amongst our allies abroad, and given considerable comfort to our enemies. And whose fault is that? Not really his. He didn't create this situation of fear; he merely exploited it — and rather successfully. Cassius was right. "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves." Good night, and good luck." Edward R Murrow

 

[red]

Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.

Harry S. Truman


John F. Kennedy:
Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed -- and no republic can survive

 

[red]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism

Thomas Jefferson

 

[red]

Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate

Hubert H Humphrey

 

[red]

may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion

Dwight D Eisenhower

 

[red]

It is the common failing of totalitarian regimes that they cannot really understand the nature of our democracy. They mistake dissent for disloyalty. They mistake restlessness for a rejection of policy. They mistake a few committees for a country. They misjudge individual speeches for public policy.”

Lyndon B Johnson

 

[red]

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism

George Washington

 

[red]

Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official...

Theodore Roosevelt

 

[red]

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

~Benjamin Franklin


Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificually induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.

~General Douglas MacArthur

 

[red]

Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged

Ronald Reagan

 

[zanner69]

Red you are on a role - keep going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but you forgot to mention another famous quote:

Yet there is a difference between responsible criticism that aims for success, and defeatism that refuses to acknowledge anything but failure. Hindsight alone is not wisdom. And second-guessing is not a strategy.
George W. Bush (or better yet his speech writer)
State of the Union 2006

 

[red]

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine