while on vacation saturday i was stopped by the o.p.p. i was traveling north and he was south i entered a curve that he was just comming out of all a sudden his lights are on he slams his brakes on and turns north i pulled over and he said he stopped me for speeding he said i was doing 116 in a 80 he gave me a ticket and said he gave me a break he lowered the speed so i would not loose points i asked if i gould ask him a couple of questions (i wanted to see the radar) and he said no that he was just called to an accident . he left i looked at the ticket and there was no speed posted on the ticket it only said i was charged with speeding. so is this something new or did i get a break what should i do
speeding ticket
- Thread starter doinker
- Start date
I'd go to court and fight that one. If there's an error on the ticket, it will probably get thrown out.
And slow the fark down!
</grumpy old man>
And slow the fark down!
</grumpy old man>
definately fight it. In my mind speeding tickets are ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, there must be traffic enforcement and people do need to improve their driving habits but speeding tickets are one of those "punishment doesn't fit the crime things". The financial implications of a speeding ticket are far beyond the initial fine and, in many cases, speed limits in Ontario are artificially low. However, this doesn't change the fact that you allegedly committed a crime. What many people do not know is that an officer must make an independent assessment as to whether you were speeding or not before going to the radar or laser unit to confirm it. That is to say that he/she cannot use the radar device to catch you he/she can only use it to produce corroberating evidence once an assessment has been made. The error on the ticket is not likely to get your case thrown out anymore, as the laws in Ontario have been changed.
I'd suggest you refer to the following website. It has gotten me off on a number of tickets where the prosecutor just threw the case out without it even going to the JP:
http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/
I'd suggest you refer to the following website. It has gotten me off on a number of tickets where the prosecutor just threw the case out without it even going to the JP:
http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/
I have averaged 45,000-50,000 kms a year for the past 15 yrs (my kids are in rep sports!!! + I drive to work). I hadn't received a speeding ticket in at least 10 years. But I have now rec'd 2 in the past 3 months, and both for more than 15kms over, meaning points are involved. I have hired one of those X-Copper agencies to fight this.
My point is this: yes, I WAS speeding. BUT, in my defense, both times they were hiding in areas where there is not a lot of traffic, and definately NO pedestrian traffic. The first one was in an industrial neighbourhood on a SUNDAY MORNING, the other was on the Lakeshore heading east between Spadina and Rees, where, again, NO pedestrian traffic EVER.
I've gone from being one of the biggest supporters of the police, to someone who is wondering what their REAL job is - preventing crime, or armed tax-collectors. I would be the first one to support them if they were setting their radar traps in school zones, near parks, beside crossing walks or areas where pedestrians are everywhere - thus plenty of jaywalking taking place that combined with high speeders the results could be fatal.
Obviously the bottom line is the speeding laws apply in every neighbourhood....so I did break the law and likely will cough up some points and higher insurance costs....
Oh, a quick anecdote. I'm leaving work on a Friday night from downtown, around 7:30pm. There is a massive traffic jam on Richmond St West....finally get close enough to see that its because the cops have narrowed the 3 lanes into 1 so they can do a RIDE check. As the cop approaches my car, I comment that "isn't it a little early in the evening to expect to catch drunk drivers?"....he replies, "I'm just following my orders"...Obviously stupid people CAN hold down positions of power! 7:30 in the evning, when bars are open till almost morning! Duh!
My point is this: yes, I WAS speeding. BUT, in my defense, both times they were hiding in areas where there is not a lot of traffic, and definately NO pedestrian traffic. The first one was in an industrial neighbourhood on a SUNDAY MORNING, the other was on the Lakeshore heading east between Spadina and Rees, where, again, NO pedestrian traffic EVER.
I've gone from being one of the biggest supporters of the police, to someone who is wondering what their REAL job is - preventing crime, or armed tax-collectors. I would be the first one to support them if they were setting their radar traps in school zones, near parks, beside crossing walks or areas where pedestrians are everywhere - thus plenty of jaywalking taking place that combined with high speeders the results could be fatal.
Obviously the bottom line is the speeding laws apply in every neighbourhood....so I did break the law and likely will cough up some points and higher insurance costs....
Oh, a quick anecdote. I'm leaving work on a Friday night from downtown, around 7:30pm. There is a massive traffic jam on Richmond St West....finally get close enough to see that its because the cops have narrowed the 3 lanes into 1 so they can do a RIDE check. As the cop approaches my car, I comment that "isn't it a little early in the evening to expect to catch drunk drivers?"....he replies, "I'm just following my orders"...Obviously stupid people CAN hold down positions of power! 7:30 in the evning, when bars are open till almost morning! Duh!
The cop gave you a major break.. to be guilty of the offence of speeding you only need to be going one km over the posted speed limit. Since you admitted to exceeding the limit, you are guilty of the offence. There is no error on the face of the ticket, the highway traffic does not specfiy that you must record the speed on the face of the ticket, only that you were speeding in contravention of the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario. IF the speed had been written on it, the courts would have notified the Ministry and you would be losing 4 points and paying double your insurance next time.
Most courts in Ontario, will convict on the evidence of speeding. If you walk in and claim you were only doing 101 KM the judge will find you guilty and you will pay the fine. If you go in and claim that you were not speeding at all, but instead contend that the cop lied, the judge will not believe you and you will pay the fine.
Think about it. weekend, busy OPP stops non speeding car....
A good motto to live by is " don't look that gift horse in the mouth, it might bite you. "
The cop has up to and including the court date set to amend the ticket to the proper speed amount, with fines and penalties attached.
Oh, and by the way, SPEEDING is the only absolute law on the books, it gives no discretion to either the driver or the officer, it is a absolute offence, either you were speeding or you weren"t, Kinda like there is no way to be a little pregant.
just my 2 cents.
Most courts in Ontario, will convict on the evidence of speeding. If you walk in and claim you were only doing 101 KM the judge will find you guilty and you will pay the fine. If you go in and claim that you were not speeding at all, but instead contend that the cop lied, the judge will not believe you and you will pay the fine.
Think about it. weekend, busy OPP stops non speeding car....
A good motto to live by is " don't look that gift horse in the mouth, it might bite you. "
The cop has up to and including the court date set to amend the ticket to the proper speed amount, with fines and penalties attached.
Oh, and by the way, SPEEDING is the only absolute law on the books, it gives no discretion to either the driver or the officer, it is a absolute offence, either you were speeding or you weren"t, Kinda like there is no way to be a little pregant.
just my 2 cents.
Uhmm nope...as far as the law goes the question is not whether he was speeding or he wasn't. The actual question is can the crown prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was speeding. Also, this proof must be provided in such a way that constitutional rights are not violated. If indeed both cars were rounding a corner going opposite directions, doinker has a case here. Police officers cannot use a device to catch someone speeding. This would be the equivalent of them radomly checking your house to see if you were committing a crime. Officers tend to "give breaks" to speeders when they KNOW that their case is shakey. That way the alleged speeder feels he got off easy and won't go to court.ham2004 said:Oh, and by the way, SPEEDING is the only absolute law on the books, it gives no discretion to either the driver or the officer, it is a absolute offence, either you were speeding or you weren"t, Kinda like there is no way to be a little pregant.
Also, in all laws are guilt is absolute. You can not sort of commit a murder and you can kind of break and enter. Either you are guilty or not. There are no degrees of guilt in the criminal justice system. The odd thing about speeding is you can be guilty of going above an allotted range and pay more. Unless you're on the bubble of losing your license, the points are immaterial. Your insurance company will burn you no matter what. To the insurance companies 10 over is the same thing as 40 over. (it becomes an excuse to jack your rates)
Doinker, go and request disclosure of the officer's notes. If there is no record of the speed, the cop can't make it up on the stand.
I have outrun 2 cops this year in my vette that tried to pull stunts like that. By the time I see them break I hit the afterburners and take some quick turns and are long gone before they even fully turn around. Both were similar circumstances, 120+ km/h in an 80 in rural areas at night. Normally they cruise at about 120 themselves in an 80 and it takes them at least 15-20 seconds (assuming they are a good driver) to pass you, notice your speed, brake and turn. With you going at 120 you are well over a KM away (out of sight, out of mind) by the time they fully turn around. Keep in mind I go from 120 to 220 in a matter of seconds.doinker said:while on vacation saturday i was stopped by the o.p.p. i was traveling north and he was south i entered a curve that he was just comming out of all a sudden his lights are on he slams his brakes on and turns north i pulled over and he said he stopped me for speeding he said i was doing 116 in a 80 he gave me a ticket and said he gave me a break he lowered the speed so i would not loose points i asked if i gould ask him a couple of questions (i wanted to see the radar) and he said no that he was just called to an accident . he left i looked at the ticket and there was no speed posted on the ticket it only said i was charged with speeding. so is this something new or did i get a break what should i do
Luckily both times I went over the crest of a hill so they couldn't see me turn and slipped quietly into a subdivision.
From what I've read they don't have to show you the radar, hire a professional that you trust to defend the ticket for a couple hundred bucks and forget about it.
Re: Re: speeding ticket
Jezze another idot driver that brags about out running the cops. So its a Vette and it goes fast, guys like you should be thrown in jail or better lose your license for awhile. Go to race track and try your so called speed and see how you do, not on a highway where anything can happen and wipe not only yourself but some family or innocent person!gypsy said:I have outrun 2 cops this year in my vette that tried to pull stunts like that. By the time I see them break I hit the afterburners and take some quick turns and are long gone before they even fully turn around. Both were similar circumstances, 120+ km/h in an 80 in rural areas at night. Normally they cruise at about 120 themselves in an 80 and it takes them at least 15-20 seconds (assuming they are a good driver) to pass you, notice your speed, brake and turn. With you going at 120 you are well over a KM away (out of sight, out of mind) by the time they fully turn around. Keep in mind I go from 120 to 220 in a matter of seconds.
Luckily both times I went over the crest of a hill so they couldn't see me turn and slipped quietly into a subdivision.
From what I've read they don't have to show you the radar, hire a professional that you trust to defend the ticket for a couple hundred bucks and forget about it.
thanks for the advive i have talked to a police police officer that i was introduced to today and he said it was an incomplete ticket go to court and it will most likely get thrown out but it is up to the judge if not it will have to be amended the cop has to be there also myself and the judge but for $45 it is unlikely to happen i just dont want to be convicted for going 116km if the speed was listed on the ticket fo going 15 over the cheque would have been already at the court house
Once the ticket has been issued, it's been issued - they can't come back and 'amend it' to add the missing speed you were allegedly driving!!
I'd take 'em to court and see wut happens from there.
As for my stupid speeding ticket story....I was doing 40 km/hr through high park at 7:30 am a few years back (the limit is 20km/hr) The cop pulls me over and starts lecturing me about how fast I was going. I said 'officer, i was barely doing 40 and that's because I was rolling down the hill there'. After a 5 minute lecture, I asked him to cut me a break. He said no, I should have thought of that before driving like a maniac in here.
Then my smart ass side came out. I asked him for a break again, nope.....so i said but there's NOTHING HERE....not a jogger, not a cyclist, not a birdwatcher, not even a damn squirrel. At 40 km/hr, what in God's name am I gonna hit?????
He wasn't impressed, and I said I'd see him in court. But he didn't show, so the ticket got thrown out.
I'd take 'em to court and see wut happens from there.
As for my stupid speeding ticket story....I was doing 40 km/hr through high park at 7:30 am a few years back (the limit is 20km/hr) The cop pulls me over and starts lecturing me about how fast I was going. I said 'officer, i was barely doing 40 and that's because I was rolling down the hill there'. After a 5 minute lecture, I asked him to cut me a break. He said no, I should have thought of that before driving like a maniac in here.
Then my smart ass side came out. I asked him for a break again, nope.....so i said but there's NOTHING HERE....not a jogger, not a cyclist, not a birdwatcher, not even a damn squirrel. At 40 km/hr, what in God's name am I gonna hit?????
He wasn't impressed, and I said I'd see him in court. But he didn't show, so the ticket got thrown out.
Re: Re: Re: speeding ticket
I just ignore lights that are 1-2 km behind me, what reasonable person would stop for that? I don't consider that 'running', it is proactive.
If a cop is clearly in view obviously attempting to stop me I stop. Overzealous cops pulling u-turns on highways are the ones committing the dangerous acts.wildone99 said:So its a Vette and it goes fast, guys like you should be thrown in jail or better lose your license for awhile.
I just ignore lights that are 1-2 km behind me, what reasonable person would stop for that? I don't consider that 'running', it is proactive.
doinker:
Don't go in with the single defense of the cop not writing the speed on the ticket. Have a look at the site I noted in my previous post and go in with as much information and as many avenues of defense as you can.
At the end of the day, it is your word against the cop's and, like it or not, the cop has more credibility than you. Every time you can point to an issue it diminishes his/her credibility before the court.
No speed on the ticket
Suspect evidence gathering techniques
Improper use of radar equipment
Faulty radar equipment
Inability to establish prima facia requirements
All these things are cumulative before the court and as they pile up the pendulum of reasonable doubt swings in your favour. This is not TV. There is seldom, if ever, one significant event or item that will have a case dismissed.
Put some time and effort into building your case, the financial savings are worth it. Don't be fooled by the myth that a 15km/h over ticket will not be discovered by your insurance company. If they run a perspectus you're screwed and a 15km/h over is the same as a 45km/h over. In some cases this will jack your insurance 30-50% and those rates will not equalise for 6 years (if ever).
Do your homework. It pays off in the end
Don't go in with the single defense of the cop not writing the speed on the ticket. Have a look at the site I noted in my previous post and go in with as much information and as many avenues of defense as you can.
At the end of the day, it is your word against the cop's and, like it or not, the cop has more credibility than you. Every time you can point to an issue it diminishes his/her credibility before the court.
No speed on the ticket
Suspect evidence gathering techniques
Improper use of radar equipment
Faulty radar equipment
Inability to establish prima facia requirements
All these things are cumulative before the court and as they pile up the pendulum of reasonable doubt swings in your favour. This is not TV. There is seldom, if ever, one significant event or item that will have a case dismissed.
Put some time and effort into building your case, the financial savings are worth it. Don't be fooled by the myth that a 15km/h over ticket will not be discovered by your insurance company. If they run a perspectus you're screwed and a 15km/h over is the same as a 45km/h over. In some cases this will jack your insurance 30-50% and those rates will not equalise for 6 years (if ever).
Do your homework. It pays off in the end
Re: Re: Re: speeding ticket
With the way the cops "enforce" speeding laws with speed traps to fill their ticket quotas, instead of honestly trying to reduce speeding by showing a prescence on the roads, I think we all have the liberty to avoid speeding tickets any way we can, without endangering anybody else, of course.wildone99 said:Jezze another idot driver that brags about out running the cops. So its a Vette and it goes fast, guys like you should be thrown in jail or better lose your license for awhile. Go to race track and try your so called speed and see how you do, not on a highway where anything can happen and wipe not only yourself but some family or innocent person!
Noooooooooooo!!!!!!! Absolute ripoff artists if there ever were ripoff artists. They will only take cases that they can win. They'll charge you an arm and a leg to do virtually nothing, and, on top of all that their definition of "win" is very loose. To them getting you off with a lesser charge is a "win" and they will still invoice you for it. All the information that you need is readily available to you and they will provide you with little or no value for your dollardoinker said:thanks again people i am going to consult with ex coppers or someone like that
I thought the same and went to the first appearence in Hamilton myself. The cop had told me that I would get the charge reduced if I went, but the procecutor reduced the charge by 4 km. I think likely a paralegal would have done better.galt said:Noooooooooooo!!!!!!! Absolute ripoff artists if there ever were ripoff artists. They will only take cases that they can win. They'll charge you an arm and a leg to do virtually nothing, and, on top of all that their definition of "win" is very loose. To them getting you off with a lesser charge is a "win" and they will still invoice you for it. All the information that you need is readily available to you and they will provide you with little or no value for your dollar
thanks again everyone for the advice i will keep all advice until next time but today i got lucky just received a letter from the courts and it informed me that i cannot have a court day. why? i wondered then i read further down the page. the officer who issued me the ticket did not submit it to the court office for filing and ariving at a court date so as of now the ticket does not exist. i am realy luck since i drive for a living and i dont usually travell as fast as i was but i still learned a lesson. thanks again for some great advice hope i can repay the favour
Whatever. If you speed, you should pay. Pure and simple.
Too often, I see someone weave in and out on the highway, and lo and behold, I come up right behind them at the same exit. Maybe, they saved themselves a minute or two by driving like a Paul Tracy wannabe. Everyone has an excuse for this and that, when it comes to how they drive. I'm sick of these people who drive too fast, cut others off, don't signal, tailgate etc. etc., and think that they are martyrs.
Too often, I see someone weave in and out on the highway, and lo and behold, I come up right behind them at the same exit. Maybe, they saved themselves a minute or two by driving like a Paul Tracy wannabe. Everyone has an excuse for this and that, when it comes to how they drive. I'm sick of these people who drive too fast, cut others off, don't signal, tailgate etc. etc., and think that they are martyrs.
