Small claims court question?

[GPIDEAL]

I think it would be prudent to issue an invoice, and on the invoice reference your verbal agreement of x date, and the terms and conditions of your verbal agreement.

Give him 30 days to pay, and mention late payments will accrue interest at 2% compounded monthly. You might consider sending it via registered mail or something so you have proof it was delivered to him.

That way, if it does go to Small Claims, at least you have something because they will surely ask if you sent him an invoice. I'm not sure taping conversations will help, unless of course he knows you are doing it.

Good advice. I might add that if payment is not made, then apart from interest, you will add the costs of collections and attorney fees. (If there was not agreement on interest, at least you can ask for pre-judgment interest according to court rates but I'd settle without the interest).

You can record conversations one-on-one only. It is only when 3rd parties can listen in that you must give notice or get permission.

 

[GPIDEAL]

There's no harm in issuing an invoice to him. In this case you have nothing to lose. I myself might try for a partial payment, a fraction of what you think you are owed. The reason being, if he pays, you at least recoup some of the money you feel you are owed, it shows some sort of an acknowledgment on his part to a verbal agreement held between you both and then you can issue an invoice for the rest. If he doesn't pay the rest, you at least can show that he paid some of the amount and this would go a long way in court in backing up your argument of a verbal contract between you.

On the topic of recording a conversation. Yes, this is a one party consent, as you are one part of the conversation. If you can get him to admit to the verbal contract this would benefit you.

A valuable lesson should be learned from this. While a verbal agreement (contract) is fine with family and friends, always get something down in writing, dated and signed by both parties. This doesn't have to be written up by a lawyer, just by you, with terms agreed to by both parties. Always make at least two copies, so that you each get one.

If you have nothing more than a verbal agreement and he ignores your invoices, then I wouldn't waste my time in small claims court, where even if you end up there, there's a good chance he won't pay you anyways if you win.

He will pay if he's not a fly-by-nighter or pure deadbeat.

However, I have court settlements, and parties have disappeared, to avoid payment. So my paralegal must do a judgement-debtor examination. I think if they don't attend, you can issue an arrest warrant for the mofo. Make people's lives stressful and difficult is nice to deadbeats or dishonest persons.

 

[GPIDEAL]

If I send him a bill for the verbal agreement amount, is that still not an outstanding invoice if there is no agreement to back it up. How does he go about not paying it?

A verbal agreement is as valid as a written agreement, however, you may have to rely on corroborating evidence to support it. Obviously, the problem with a verbal agreement is that it is more difficult to enforce.

How the hell were you going to get paid in the first place? No invoice? Are you sure you're an independent operator/contractor and not an employee?

An invoice seems like a reasonable thing to do if you were an independent. If you are an employee, you might be able to get the Ministry of Labour involved.

 

[GPIDEAL]

This is separate from my other litigation thread, got a couple issues this summer.

Needed a seasonal job this summer and a change from my regular job so I approached a landscape supply company to do their deliveries, a verbal agreement was reached, did not work out for me at all. He promised a bunch of hours that didn't materialize and a few other promises.

I'm out over 2 grand with the truck rental, ins., etc. He wants to pay considerably less.

Question is do I go for the amount of the verbal agreement or the amount I am out since I have actual receipts for them. I have already emailed him with a compromise, meet in the middle type of deal and he is avoiding me, not answering emails etc. I have also started audio taping my calls to them.

Do I have to submit an actual invoice and wait a specific amount of time to start litigation, the email was an informal offer. It's not worth paying a paralegal.

Never, ever be out of pocket without an agreement. I don't understand why he couldn't have paid for the truck rental himself in the first place.

 

[JessyCeleste]

Hi Wazup, First off, I'm so sorry this happened to you.. that really isn't fair. Since you don't have anything in writing, I don't know how far this will go, although you may have a chance since you rented a truck for that purpose. I'm assuming you still have invoices for that and all other expenses? If so, what you can do is write a Letter of Intent. You can google it to see the exact format of how to write one. The most important things to remember to include is this;

- Write the words 'Without Prejudice' at the top of the letter
- Put the persons name and address at the top
- State your plight, how much and why you think they owe you this
- State that they have 30 days (has to be at least 30) to cough-up or you will 'be forced to take legal action'
- Do not use the term 'cough-up' lol
- Don't forget dates. The date you wrote it and any dates you spent money, date of verbal contract etc.
- Make sure you send the letter by registered mail that he has to sign for

I really hope you google it though because it'll show you where to write everything and show you sample letters... mainly I'm worried I forgot something important.

A lot of times, people will settle just by knowing you are on them. Secondly, if they ask a lawyer, he will tell them that this is the first official step before suing someone. If you tried to go to small claims, they would tell you to come back after the 30 days of the letter of intent has lapsed. This letter shows people you aren't backing down.

Good luck to you! I hope this helps. :-(

 

[Anynym]

I'm not a lawyer, but .. while the general terms of your verbal contract may be enforceable, I would doubt the hours you were promised would be considered as a binding part of that contract. You would be owed for the time actually worked (the deliveries you did make), but unless there was a specific agreement to cover all your expenses, the fact that you had to buy things to fulfill your end of the bargain would be unlikely to persuade a judge to see you made whole.

Go after the money you are owed, but you'll probably have to swallow much of what you are out of pocket.

 

[explorerzip]

I'm owed money, just a matter of how much.

It's up to you to prove that he owes you money not the amount he owes.

 

[wazup]

Hi Wazup, First off, I'm so sorry this happened to you.. that really isn't fair. Since you don't have anything in writing, I don't know how far this will go, although you may have a chance since you rented a truck for that purpose. I'm assuming you still have invoices for that and all other expenses? If so, what you can do is write a Letter of Intent. You can google it to see the exact format of how to write one. The most important things to remember to include is this;

- Write the words 'Without Prejudice' at the top of the letter
- Put the persons name and address at the top
- State your plight, how much and why you think they owe you this
- State that they have 30 days (has to be at least 30) to cough-up or you will 'be forced to take legal action'
- Do not use the term 'cough-up' lol
- Don't forget dates. The date you wrote it and any dates you spent money, date of verbal contract etc.
- Make sure you send the letter by registered mail that he has to sign for

I really hope you google it though because it'll show you where to write everything and show you sample letters... mainly I'm worried I forgot something important.

A lot of times, people will settle just by knowing you are on them. Secondly, if they ask a lawyer, he will tell them that this is the first official step before suing someone. If you tried to go to small claims, they would tell you to come back after the 30 days of the letter of intent has lapsed. This letter shows people you aren't backing down.

Good luck to you! I hope this helps. :-(

Great advice, I will look into it.

 

[wazup]

Here's the just of the story.

-Approached him as I found a place that rented these trucks, only one place in ontario that does it and they only had one left, this was early march.
-he was all excited as he could put the wear and tear on this truck, not his, we agreed I would be the primary driver for this size of his trucks, his would be used as a back up.
- we agreed on so much per delivery, he said the truck could run 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week if I wanted, 12-14 deliveries a day, I reserved the truck
- fast forward to late April, I wasn't getting any calls, early may they called me, my first day I realized they had their own driver, he said not to worry lots of deliveries.
- Worked 2 days and heard them talking I was just a fill in, owner assured me not.
- following week, was called in again and then realized I was a relief driver, this was the third week in, returned truck after the third week to limit losses.
- turns out they weren't open 12 hrs a day, it was 10, and the amount of deliveries was 9 or 10 a day.

 

[TeeJay]

I'm owed money, just a matter of how much.

How do you figure?

An employer said you can have X shifts
You expected to make a certain amount and paid out some expenses (like renting a truck)
You yourself said it didn't work out and not enough shifts were assigned to you

So you have some insane idea he owes you for shifts you never worked or for expenses you incurred in anticipation of future revenue?
Judge would laugh you out of the building dude

 

[TeeJay]

Here's the just of the story.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gist