Should We Have The Death Penalty For Child Killers?
- Thread starter TheNiteHwk
- Start date
I hope when you go back and read the bloodthirsty, merciless ravings you posted, that you guys pause and reflect just how little different you might be from the evil creature who actually does what you're only fantasizing about.
If you want murder to stop, you won't speed the day with more brutal reprisals. And if revenge that comes from another's pain feels that good to you, aren't you pretty much like the kind of animal that we all feel better having on the other side of the bars?
Of course anger will make the wisest person say some pretty foolish things, and cruelty to a child angers everyone. But we're trying to make the world better, aren't we? By bringing back the Spanish Inquisition? We must never ever forget that making a better world by exterminating those unworthy to live in it was Hitler's method.
Not to say you think he wasn't all bad. But hey, if you're into punishment-porn, "Scourge of the Swastika" has some lovely techniques you could imagine using on pædophiles—or whoever else gets you mad. Like abortionists, puppy mill owners, the Koebel brothers; the Roll of Evil continues, ad nauseam.
BTW I hope none of you drives home from CB or wherever, because I think drivers with alcohol in their blood should be…
If you want murder to stop, you won't speed the day with more brutal reprisals. And if revenge that comes from another's pain feels that good to you, aren't you pretty much like the kind of animal that we all feel better having on the other side of the bars?
Of course anger will make the wisest person say some pretty foolish things, and cruelty to a child angers everyone. But we're trying to make the world better, aren't we? By bringing back the Spanish Inquisition? We must never ever forget that making a better world by exterminating those unworthy to live in it was Hitler's method.
Not to say you think he wasn't all bad. But hey, if you're into punishment-porn, "Scourge of the Swastika" has some lovely techniques you could imagine using on pædophiles—or whoever else gets you mad. Like abortionists, puppy mill owners, the Koebel brothers; the Roll of Evil continues, ad nauseam.
BTW I hope none of you drives home from CB or wherever, because I think drivers with alcohol in their blood should be…
I voted NO
I'm against the death penalty for two reasons.
First of all, if murder is wrong (obviously it is), then it's also wrong for the state (that is..we, the people) to kill another human; even if he or she is a criminal. The taking of a human life is the biggest tragedy possible. Each human being is unique and irreplaceable. I don't believe that anyone has the right to end a life, regardless of how little value you think that person has.
Secondly, capital punishment is irreversible. It's extremely rare that we have 100% incontravertable evidence that someone is guilty of a crime. Unless you have independent witnesses (and you're sure they're not lying) or perhaps videotaped evidence that is tamper-proof, there is always an element of doubt. This doubt is not enough (IMO) to prevent us from incarcerating a convicted killer for life but it's too risky to kill the convicted person only to learn later that, perhaps, there was additional evidence found or a witness was lying.
Though they are rare, there continue to be cases of convicted murderers who are found innocent and released (sometimes) many years after they were first convicted and sentenced. While a release from prison does not make up for the years lost in the lives of these unfortunate victims, it is better than if they had completely lost their lives forever.
If you think it's worth killing the occasional innocent person in order to execute a majority of guilty murderers then try imagining that your brother, sister, or some other close loved one is the person who has been falsely accused.
Murder, especially of children, is a horrible and heinous crime. It rightfully stirs up very strong emotions in all of us and not least of these is the desire for revenge. In the heat of this passion, it's not hard to see how some poeple might cut a few corners in order to find the guilty party and obtain some closure. While these attitudes are very understandable, they may lead to a false accusation and, if the consequence is execution, there is never the option to correct this error.
I'm not prepared to support a system of justice that allows even for the smallest chance that I, a close loved one, my favourite SP, or even an innocent stranger will cease to exist because someone was wrong about what they think they did.
Zog.
I'm against the death penalty for two reasons.
First of all, if murder is wrong (obviously it is), then it's also wrong for the state (that is..we, the people) to kill another human; even if he or she is a criminal. The taking of a human life is the biggest tragedy possible. Each human being is unique and irreplaceable. I don't believe that anyone has the right to end a life, regardless of how little value you think that person has.
Secondly, capital punishment is irreversible. It's extremely rare that we have 100% incontravertable evidence that someone is guilty of a crime. Unless you have independent witnesses (and you're sure they're not lying) or perhaps videotaped evidence that is tamper-proof, there is always an element of doubt. This doubt is not enough (IMO) to prevent us from incarcerating a convicted killer for life but it's too risky to kill the convicted person only to learn later that, perhaps, there was additional evidence found or a witness was lying.
Though they are rare, there continue to be cases of convicted murderers who are found innocent and released (sometimes) many years after they were first convicted and sentenced. While a release from prison does not make up for the years lost in the lives of these unfortunate victims, it is better than if they had completely lost their lives forever.
If you think it's worth killing the occasional innocent person in order to execute a majority of guilty murderers then try imagining that your brother, sister, or some other close loved one is the person who has been falsely accused.
Murder, especially of children, is a horrible and heinous crime. It rightfully stirs up very strong emotions in all of us and not least of these is the desire for revenge. In the heat of this passion, it's not hard to see how some poeple might cut a few corners in order to find the guilty party and obtain some closure. While these attitudes are very understandable, they may lead to a false accusation and, if the consequence is execution, there is never the option to correct this error.
I'm not prepared to support a system of justice that allows even for the smallest chance that I, a close loved one, my favourite SP, or even an innocent stranger will cease to exist because someone was wrong about what they think they did.
Zog.
Public registry?
How about they make the sex offenders list public. Yes, your taking away thier privacy, but what about what they took away from the children and thier families?
Then whenever a child is murdered or molested, we pick two(three, four five) child molesters off the list and execute them in public. (I know pretty harsh, but what is more brutal? That or the rape and murder of a child?) You take one of ours, we take up to five of yours. Eye for an eye.
Or the government can actually do something...should there even be a re-offender? What the hell is that? If you molest a child you should not have a chance to re-offend. I've always thought that child molesters should be used for medical experiments, I mean why waste good monkeys and mice?
How about they make the sex offenders list public. Yes, your taking away thier privacy, but what about what they took away from the children and thier families?
Then whenever a child is murdered or molested, we pick two(three, four five) child molesters off the list and execute them in public. (I know pretty harsh, but what is more brutal? That or the rape and murder of a child?) You take one of ours, we take up to five of yours. Eye for an eye.
Or the government can actually do something...should there even be a re-offender? What the hell is that? If you molest a child you should not have a chance to re-offend. I've always thought that child molesters should be used for medical experiments, I mean why waste good monkeys and mice?
I got a better ideaV12 said:
Let a convicted child killer live with the family for oh say 48 hours
NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
Re: Public registry?
Wanting to treat people as they did, can you still think you're that much different from the sickos who are blind and deaf to the pain they inflict on kids? Granted, I'm sure if the knife was placed in your hand you'd not use it, but hiring someone else to do the dirty work doesn't keep your hands clean.
I suppose you might stretch a point and say the Crucifixion was an instance where the deliberate infliction of pain and suffering on somone helpless made things better, but wasn't that a 'wrongful conviction? It sure wasn't the result Roman justice intended. However I challenge you to produce another example. You can't think they had no serial killers under the Khmer Rouge or child molesters in Pinochet's times. If executions and torture made the world safe, why are we talking about what to do with child murderers? Isn't making a safer world the real point?
I'm sure you're a fine citizen aka and nothing personal, but this depressing thread is making people express some very ugly thoughts. You might look for a movie made during the McCarthy era called The Ox-Bow Incident if you wonder why this sort of bloodthirsty chorus upsets me.
Lets see, there was a Dr. Mengele could give you advice about experimenting on unwilling people, without anæsthetic. Worked at Auschwitz; I believe was last seen in South America. Or the Japanese 'doctors' who 'worked' on Chinese subjects. Their results of their 'experiments' make very nasty reading.aka Danielle said:
Wanting to treat people as they did, can you still think you're that much different from the sickos who are blind and deaf to the pain they inflict on kids? Granted, I'm sure if the knife was placed in your hand you'd not use it, but hiring someone else to do the dirty work doesn't keep your hands clean.
I suppose you might stretch a point and say the Crucifixion was an instance where the deliberate infliction of pain and suffering on somone helpless made things better, but wasn't that a 'wrongful conviction? It sure wasn't the result Roman justice intended. However I challenge you to produce another example. You can't think they had no serial killers under the Khmer Rouge or child molesters in Pinochet's times. If executions and torture made the world safe, why are we talking about what to do with child murderers? Isn't making a safer world the real point?
I'm sure you're a fine citizen aka and nothing personal, but this depressing thread is making people express some very ugly thoughts. You might look for a movie made during the McCarthy era called The Ox-Bow Incident if you wonder why this sort of bloodthirsty chorus upsets me.
Well, I'm out of sync on this one, but the hysteria, malevoloence, and vicious craziness exhibited in the posts in this thread arfe mind-boggling. What we have here is a VERY sick person who has commited an horrendous crime - but the age-old penchant for violent revenge is a pointless knee-jerk reaction tghat really can't be justified in a civilized society.
I'm against the death penalty - always have been, ever since I saw a mentally-handicapped 19 year old sentenced to death by a bewigged judge with a black cap on his head and a solemn-looking chaplain at his side — but we have to balance a lot of things here when this predator is found.
1) Did he REALLY do it? The cops are under pressure - they'll nail the first person that they think COULD have done it.
2) What mental shape is he ikn (or was in when the crime was committed)?
3) How much are we concerned - if at all ! - with working to do the following (in no particular order)
I'm against the death penalty - always have been, ever since I saw a mentally-handicapped 19 year old sentenced to death by a bewigged judge with a black cap on his head and a solemn-looking chaplain at his side — but we have to balance a lot of things here when this predator is found.
1) Did he REALLY do it? The cops are under pressure - they'll nail the first person that they think COULD have done it.
2) What mental shape is he ikn (or was in when the crime was committed)?
3) How much are we concerned - if at all ! - with working to do the following (in no particular order)
Damn - I did it again - pressed the wrong key before I made my (final!) points:
As I was saying - how much are we (society) concerned with balancing
- retribition and revenge
- protecting other victims
- rehabilitating/curing the perpetrator
Oh, this is pointless - I'm gonna get flamed. People round here (with a couple of notable exceptions) are more concerned with violent, unreasoning (and unreasonable!) revenge. As Cardinal Fang (the originaly, not necessary the good soul who uses that name in these parts) might say: Slit open their nose with a boathook!
And much good will that do....
Muddy
"It is always darkest before the dawn. This is the best time to steal your neighbour's newspaper"
As I was saying - how much are we (society) concerned with balancing
- retribition and revenge
- protecting other victims
- rehabilitating/curing the perpetrator
Oh, this is pointless - I'm gonna get flamed. People round here (with a couple of notable exceptions) are more concerned with violent, unreasoning (and unreasonable!) revenge. As Cardinal Fang (the originaly, not necessary the good soul who uses that name in these parts) might say: Slit open their nose with a boathook!
And much good will that do....
Muddy
"It is always darkest before the dawn. This is the best time to steal your neighbour's newspaper"
innocent untill proven GUILTY???
Yes and here in the US guilt is determined beyond a reasonable doubt.
Are juries ever wrong?? sure they are human
but does this make it enough to let child killers go?? NFW
A friend tells me that a 10 year old girl was killed in Toronto this week. Her body was cut up and tossed. Some out there would have compassion for her killer?
Yes and here in the US guilt is determined beyond a reasonable doubt.
Are juries ever wrong?? sure they are human
but does this make it enough to let child killers go?? NFW
A friend tells me that a 10 year old girl was killed in Toronto this week. Her body was cut up and tossed. Some out there would have compassion for her killer?
No compassion for the real killer!
What some of us are saying, is that killing a suspected murderer is not necessarily the right way to deal with the situation.
At the moment, even the police do not have a suspect. If this goes on for a few more days, the pressure to find the perpetrator will increase and the first suspect that turns up is likely to be convicted in the press before the evidence is known.
I'm not saying that the justice system should do nothing. However, I'm not prepared to kill this suspect because I know there's a real possibility that he (or she) is not guilty.
We are all very angry about this heinous crime and most of us have felt the same strong desire for revenge that some have expressed above. However, we are human beings and not animals. We have to moderate our gut emotions with intelligent thought. It's not easy to control our anger sometimes but that is what makes us human and we should do our best to live up to our potential.
Zog.
No! No one here is expressing compassion for the actual killer of the young girl.papasmerf said:
What some of us are saying, is that killing a suspected murderer is not necessarily the right way to deal with the situation.
At the moment, even the police do not have a suspect. If this goes on for a few more days, the pressure to find the perpetrator will increase and the first suspect that turns up is likely to be convicted in the press before the evidence is known.
I'm not saying that the justice system should do nothing. However, I'm not prepared to kill this suspect because I know there's a real possibility that he (or she) is not guilty.
We are all very angry about this heinous crime and most of us have felt the same strong desire for revenge that some have expressed above. However, we are human beings and not animals. We have to moderate our gut emotions with intelligent thought. It's not easy to control our anger sometimes but that is what makes us human and we should do our best to live up to our potential.
Zog.
Once a killer is found guilty or confesses that is different then frontier justice with a tree and a rope.
Oh it's okay t h e n…
The Nazi judges who condemned those in the plot on Hitler's life to be garrotted with piano wire, hung from meathooks, did it all by law. We used to strangle killers, thieves and others on the end of a rope and watch, hoping one day we'd see someone's head yanked right off. All by law. St Thomas More wasn't beheaded by the first axe blow* you know, and that too was done by law. And what about burning at the stake, a lawful punishment for those convicted of believing in the wrong holy book, or living alone with a cat? It's not whether it's by law. It's whether it's by good laws, applied by good people.
My apologies for hijacking your post papa I really am trying to stay out of this thread. But some of the opinions I read here make me want to glue peoples' eyes and orifices shut with Krazy Glue™. One by one.
*The Lord High Executioner, by Howard Engel
http://www.atthefaire.com/articles/2001/01-12-01_executioner.htm
… to flay the skin from his body—funny it's always a him, do we flay the child-murdering moms too?— and rub in salt. Sorry papasmerf that's from another cruelty-mongering poster, not you, but people have always masked their revenge or hatred in the apparent righteousness of the law.papasmerf said:
The Nazi judges who condemned those in the plot on Hitler's life to be garrotted with piano wire, hung from meathooks, did it all by law. We used to strangle killers, thieves and others on the end of a rope and watch, hoping one day we'd see someone's head yanked right off. All by law. St Thomas More wasn't beheaded by the first axe blow* you know, and that too was done by law. And what about burning at the stake, a lawful punishment for those convicted of believing in the wrong holy book, or living alone with a cat? It's not whether it's by law. It's whether it's by good laws, applied by good people.
My apologies for hijacking your post papa I really am trying to stay out of this thread. But some of the opinions I read here make me want to glue peoples' eyes and orifices shut with Krazy Glue™. One by one.
*The Lord High Executioner, by Howard Engel
http://www.atthefaire.com/articles/2001/01-12-01_executioner.htm
Mr jones
I do not immangine the chld killers refered to here were concerned with the ramifications before commiting their crimes. Most are aware at the worst they may get is 25 to life if caught and out in 12 for a plea.
For those who call this justice I pray they are never victums of any crimes.
I do not immangine the chld killers refered to here were concerned with the ramifications before commiting their crimes. Most are aware at the worst they may get is 25 to life if caught and out in 12 for a plea.
For those who call this justice I pray they are never victums of any crimes.
