Shame on the Israelis

[DATYdude]

First off: Welcome The Houdini to the Politics forum.... YOU FOOL! GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!

 

[DATYdude]

Second: Sandstorm, your eyes must be fizzy because you're seeing stuff that just doesn't exist. We share taste in women I think but not political opinion.

Third: I don't have answers or know much about what's going on. I think that there are few balanced sources but I read Haaretz a lot because they seem to be include varied opinion and still go in depth.

Bradley Burston is among my favourites, have a look what he's written,

Wartime in Gaza: The worst anti-Israel charges you'll hear http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050421.html

(I'd reprint it here but it's easier to read on the Haaretz site.)

Have a look, that is, if you have time AND feel you have something more to learn about the conflict. Those of you who have all the answers and understand all the nuances, might as well continue to parade your genius here.

 

[persis]

Second: Sandstorm, your eyes must be fizzy because you're seeing stuff that just doesn't exist. We share taste in women I think but not political opinion.

Third: I don't have answers or know much about what's going on. I think that there are few balanced sources but I read Haaretz a lot because they seem to be include varied opinion and still go in depth.

Bradley Burston is among my favourites, have a look what he's written,

Wartime in Gaza: The worst anti-Israel charges you'll hear http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050421.html

(I'd reprint it here but it's easier to read on the Haaretz site.)

Have a look, that is, if you have time AND feel you have something more to learn about the conflict. Those of you who have all the answers and understand all the nuances, might as well continue to parade your genius here.

Oh . . .come on
don't tell me you did not know that
Bernard Madoff was one of own

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1047173.html

 

[jackd1959]

Sderot? You've got to be joking. Life in Sderot is like Disneyland compared to lives Palestinians live under Israeli occupation and violence.

Talking about Sderot that way is like complaining to a starving child in Darfur that you missed your lunch and you are hungry too.

C'mon..get it together.

They were not under Israeli occupation, they were under HAMAS occupation and had HAMAS stopped the rockets being fired into Israel they wouldn't be starving.

 

[terb1248]

Ask this question to a kid without political bias

Can anyone tell me any people have the right to claim the land where they have not been there for 2000 years?

If this right is valid. I believe Mongolian should have the largest country today.

 

[danmand]

If this right is valid. I believe Mongolian should have the largest country today.

Or the italiens, or the greek.

 

[terb1248]

Or the italiens, or the greek.

And they are still presence in those ex-empires too, don't they?

Let's face the fact, let's face it, it is something beyond justice or fairness. It is something about power struggling.

 

[danmand]

And they are still presence in those ex-empires too, don't they?

Let's face the fact, let's face it, it is something beyond justice or fairness. It is something about power struggling.

It is even simpler than that. It is a real estate dispute gone horribly wrong.

 

[4funonly]

We have been over the whos land is it anyway debate before, the Isrealis have it now and apparantly don't plan on giving it up, there are only a couple of powers on the planet that could make them anyway......

With this mentality, only war is future in that region so talking on peace is waste of time.

Initially Palestanians looked me and most of us "terrorist" and now they looks and feels "freedom fighters" due to Israels bombing.

I wish there should be defination of terrorists and freedom fighters.

Bottom line is these morons think, bombing is for peace, sorry they are wrong. This bombing is fueling up and showing fire to Palestanians and whenever they got chance they will kill Israeeles.

 

[terb1248]

HUH???? were in that post does it say that I marginalize the European atrocities against Jews.

What you forget, and the point I was making that there was a substantial Jewish population in the Palestinian territories before the horrors visited on Jews in Europe and subsequent immigration that followed the formation of Israel ... in fact the Brits did all they could to limit Jewish the population by closing seaports.

You also forget that the leader of the Palestinian Arabs ... a man who would become Arafat's uncle ... he sat out the war in Berlin and returned to Jerusalem with one thing in mind ... kill as many Jews as possible.

The Brits were stuck until partition with huge problem until the UN resolved it.

Please don't rewrite history in favor of the Arab Muslims ... they made plenty of mistakes that to this day has caused the suffering of the Palestinian people ... they were blinded by hate and bigotry and dealt in absolutes. In the end the Palestinian Arab Muslims were abandoned by their brothers in other Countries ... that's the problem and that remains the problem.


bbk

Brits were struck because they were also targeted by Jews.

 

[landscaper]

With this mentality, only war is future in that region so talking on peace is waste of time.

Initially Palestanians looked me and most of us "terrorist" and now they looks and feels "freedom fighters" due to Israels bombing.

I wish there should be defination of terrorists and freedom fighters.

Bottom line is these morons think, bombing is for peace, sorry they are wrong. This bombing is fueling up and showing fire to Palestanians and whenever they got chance they will kill Israeeles.

The reason behind the post was that various other posters have pointed out that the Palistinians were the original land owners, they were not you can go back 10000 years to find documented evidence of civilizations in that area. Are the decendants of those people the owners of the area?

The current dispute is based on the Arab inhabitation of the area during recent history.( pick your dates) The Isreali's have as good a claim to some of the area as any of the Arab groups. The fact that they are there and there are possibly 2 countries that could force them out and that is a big possibly is is not really germain to the discussion beyond they are ther now, with the best equiped and motivated armed forces and they are not going to leave.

The ISreali's have made clear they will negotiate in good faith if the other side can be trusted, so far the other side has not been trustworthy.

The embargo of teh Gaza area has more to do with the terrorist rocket and mortar attacks than anything else.

If the attacks stop the embargo goes away, they did not stop the attacks , some 3000 last year dispite numerous warnings and they are in the process of being stomped.

 

[landscaper]

This system of deciding who is correct would result in a massive booldbath the likes of which the world has not see sice the Ghengis Khan went on his little road trip. I much prefere my slaughters in smaller proportions

 

[spankingman]

Israel

As my dear father once said Theyve been fighting there for 5,000 years,It's NOT going to change!!!!!!!!! The "chosen" people have a lot of Jews around the world financing Israel and its projects. If you stand up to them they will kill you in the name of religion. Sound familiar?

Also in AFGHANASTAN The Afghanis defeated the mighty Imperial British Army the Russians and now who knows.

I am NOT Anti Semetic,my BEST friend is Jewish HE tells me this stuff.

 

[landscaper]

The Israelis have never been trustworthy negotiators because they know the US will back them no matter how many deals they violate.

The Arab states have never been trustworthy negotiators because they are thug-like dictatorships who don't represent their own people. When you're a fake leader of a fake state, you can't do anything bold and have it stick because nobody in your country accepts your decisions anyway.

So all of this is just Kabuki theatre - there is a segment in Israel that believes it can get a fake Arab leader (a la Sadat, or Abbas, or whatever stooge comes next) to sign a binding deal on behalf of the Palestinians and magically have it stick. In the meantime, any other "non-hand-picked" stooge is to be eliminated (i.e. Hamas etc) to make that happen.

There is a segment in the Arab world that believes that overthrowing the repressive Israelis will be the "Boston Tea Party" that causes all Arabs to overthrow all their even more repressive regimes because the fear of them is now gone.

Both segments are wrong. But what else is new?

I do have to disagree with you on the Isreali not having been trustworthy negotiators. To my knowledge they have never broken terms of an agreement that they have signed.

That said the area is a sinkhole for human life with no imediate prospects to improve. I have said at other times this thing will not be solved in this generation

 

[Dawson]

You bet .. Israel does get its weapons and all from the US .

Lets see if Bush "condemns" the attacks.. Not that his words or anyones words matter anyways.

Its 2:00 am and i cant even sleep after watching all the news on Gaza.. Just heart breaking knowing I can not do anything to help those victims.. these people did not deserve this.

On a side note: the biggest arms dealing countries are the five that are permanent members (and the only ones that have veto power) of the UN. USA, Russia, China, Great Britain and France. No country that deals in arms has any business having veto power over international security (IMHO).

 

[landscaper]

On a side note: the biggest arms dealing countries are the five that are permanent members (and the only ones that have veto power) of the UN. USA, Russia, China, Great Britain and France. No country that deals in arms has any business having veto power over international security (IMHO).

You have a noble sentiment but who is going to tell them no?

 

[The Houdini]

Israeli peace groups themselves will tell you the settlements are in continuous violation of Oslo and always have been.

There are endless examples of Israeli violations of deals made, but it really doesn't matter, since most of the deals are made with people on the other side who have no legitimacy either.

Here's a simple hypothetical - suppose Israel signs a peace deal with Jordan. The Jordanian king has no real legitimacy other than the fact that his kingdom was granted to ancestors as a consolation prize for not assassinating as many people as the House of Saud did to get "Saudi" Arabia.

When one day he and his kind are gone, should a democratic or popular legitimate government in Jordan honour a deal made by a thug?

What real security does Israel get out of that deal anyway?

Interesting intellectual exercise with no positive answer.

Humm,

Israel does have a peace deal with Jordan.

And you're totally right. All the Arab states are run by Monarchs and dictators. What gaurantee does Israel have when signing peace deals with these entities.

But they do. Egypt, and now Jordan. I hope there will be a deal with Syria soon as well which will lead to a deal with Lebanon.

Isarel is under a microscope by the world community. They try very hard to reduce collateral damage to civilians. That's why they "lost" the war in Lebanon. If they had total freedom they could have flattened Lebanon in 2 weeks. Similar scenario to the Vietnam war.

The same thing goes to Gaza. Israel tries it's best to prevent civilian casualties, however Hamas uses it's own people as pawns. Hiding and firing from heavily populated areas, hiding weapons in Highrises and Mosques, transferring fighters in Ambulances, you name it.

Hamas is the cancer that's needs to erradicated for the benefit of both sides.

 

[gryfin]

Humm,



The same thing goes to Gaza. Israel tries it's best to prevent civilian casualties, however Hamas uses it's own people as pawns. Hiding and firing from heavily populated areas, hiding weapons in Highrises and Mosques, transferring fighters in Ambulances, you name it.

Sources please. This should be good for a laugh.

 

[The Houdini]

Sources please. This should be good for a laugh.

Are you serious???

Is it warm and cozy living under a rock?

They throw their own brothers off roof tops. Otherwise, they're very civil and compassionate.

 

[lavameltme]

Shame on everyone in the world actually...
I cant remember how many threads were opened and tens of people frustrated when some "terrorists" attacked some hundred people in India just not long ago.

Today, or yesterday , Israel locked off all needs to the Palestinians, food, clean water, medicines and everything.
Then attacked killed around 300 people in 1 day, killing innocent babies, children, women and men .. injured many hundred others...

Not 1 thread ? Its not that we this is a political board, but it is a lounge..

Shame on Israeli Government for killing these people, i just cant believe if they are humans or animals .. or even worse.

The killing of innocent humans, no matter who they are or where they come from , is absolutely unacceptable.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/28/gaza.humanitarian/index.html

No1 has the guts to stop Israel. So much for the UN ..

Well if someone was lobbing grenades into my backyard I certainly would not be sending them Xmas cards. Israel may be part of the problem but Hamas needs to be part of the solution. The World should be working to solve this problem by trying to do something about Hamas