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serious family dilemma

CapitalGuy

New member
Mar 28, 2004
5,774
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We're still ALL missing the point

What's still outstanding with respect to this entire issue is, what do the girls look like, what kind of mileage do they provide, and what is their contact info.
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
15,972
2
0
63
way out in left field
James T Fuckwad, first of all, you really don't get it do you? You don't offer someone ANYTHING then after the fact, add conditions to it. This equates to you buying a house, signing the contract, then on move in day, the sellers telling you that you can't occupy the house unless you cough up another 10 grand....BOY do I hope this happens to you in real life, then maybe you will get the point....which is: YOU DON'T ADD CONDITIONS AFTER AN AGREEMENT IS MADE....EOS.

And you think it is cool to extort people into doing what YOU want? Sheesh, I bet you do this in real life too don't you?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,004
3,832
113
tboy said:
James T Fuckwad, first of all, you really don't get it do you? You don't offer someone ANYTHING then after the fact, add conditions to it. This equates to you buying a house, signing the contract, then on move in day, the sellers telling you that you can't occupy the house unless you cough up another 10 grand....BOY do I hope this happens to you in real life, then maybe you will get the point....which is: YOU DON'T ADD CONDITIONS AFTER AN AGREEMENT IS MADE....EOS.

And you think it is cool to extort people into doing what YOU want? Sheesh, I bet you do this in real life too don't you?
Ah, I see now, I touched a bit of a nerve there calling your two "friends" losers cause they want her daddy to pay for their wedding but won't invite the kids, so the old man (Clemenza) threatens to pull the cash (his right)

Obviously, YOU are the loser in your story.

It's your wedding we were talking about isn't it.

Har har har.

I can picture you too alright buddy. I picture Carlos, Connie's good for nothing husband in the Godfather.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
r2d2 said:
I have a very serious family dilemma brewing. I have 3 kids, boy 19, girl 21, girl 23, all still at home. My oldest girl is engaged to be married next year. Her and her brother have never gotten along. My son is an ass, there is no doubt about it, but so is my daughter. However there are occasional flashes of great kids in both of them. The problem is I doubt that the daughter is going to invite my son to her wedding because she despises him so much from his past history which I won't get into here, but it is just that ----history. She also has issues with how he looks, multiple piercings etc., and is concerned he will embarass her. The other problem is that my middle daughter and my son get along great. I think my oldest is going to ask her sister to be her maid of honour. The problem ---she won't go if her brother does not get an invite. I am also torn as to what I am going to do. Will I refuse to attend, will I attend the wedding service only, I am at a complete loss. I have suggested to my oldest that it would not be prudent not to invite her brother, and I might add her fiancee has no problem inviting him to be part of the wedding party, but she is adament. To-date she has not raised the issue with my son but I know it is coming. Any thoughts?
who is paying for the wedding? thats your answer
 

pool

pure evil
Aug 20, 2001
4,747
1
0
I don't think he should [try to] insist, whether he is paying or not, but he certainly has a right to have his say. Everyone may benefit from an honest, open, non judgmental "chat" as equals and address the problems, if that's possible, rather focus on the wedding which isn't till next year.
 

Kurt

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2002
758
255
63
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Somewhere between here and there
tough choices

Hey I don't know the right answer but lots of good advise.

Sit down with the kids and talk about what could work so everybody wins.
If they aren't able to come to an agreement tell your son why! Maybe it will be a wake up call for him. Part of the problem will probably be resolved after your daughter moves out. Living with siblings at that age must be grueling at times. Let them both know their is light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe after that they can figure out a solution.

Kurt
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
pool said:
I don't think he should [try to] insist, whether he is paying or not, but he certainly has a right to have his say. Everyone may benefit from an honest, open, non judgmental "chat" as equals and address the problems, if that's possible, rather focus on the wedding which isn't till next year.
and then maybe a group hug. let me guess - you were raised by teletubbies?
 

pool

pure evil
Aug 20, 2001
4,747
1
0
red said:
and then maybe a group hug.
well wtf is the objective here ? ... not to consider all of their feelings, possibly getting their backs up and further isolating them ?

Reality is rarely, if ever, that simple, but that does not mean one shouldn't take the reasonable approach first. Maybe the authoritative act would work out - who knows,everyone is different - but at what cost ? At least if one tries to resolve the real issues first and uses the more "forceful" approach as a last resort, the people involved will perceive a more balanced respect for their issues as individuals. Maybe a combination of both - when dealing with the complexities of humans there is no exact science contrary to the belief of pop psych fans.

bees, honey, money ... meh
 

JoyfulC

New member
Sep 23, 2004
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www.honeydelight.net
Tell all your kids to grow up -- especially the one getting married (who is really a bit young for that, eh?).

Kids don't do these things without some complicity on the part of the parents. If the parents always accepted each child for his or her self, then the kids will tend to too.

If your daugher is mature enough to get married -- and if she truly believes that her marriage will be forever -- then it should be pointed out to her how foolish it would be to allow childish sibling squabbling to interfere with her including her brother in her wedding celebration. After all, over the next 50 or so years, she's going to have to put up with a lot of people that she has issues with. If she's truly mature enough to get married, then maybe she can start by demonstrating that she's capable of putting family peace and future relations above her feelings in the present.

She needs to grow up. It will be good practice for her.

..c..
 

galt

Ovature, light the lights
Nov 13, 2003
375
0
16
I have to confess that I haven't read this entire thread but, having lived this once and, having a sister that I'm not overly fond of myself, I thought I would weigh in here.

R2D2, unlike your situation, as much as I despise my sister (and I really do mean despise her) I knew from the time that I was engaged that she was going to be invited to my wedding.

As much as my wedding was a day for me and my late wife, it was also a day for my parents and her parents to take some pride in their accomplishments. My wife and I knew that there would be guests there that A) we didn't know and B) we didn't want, but due to family obligations, would have to be invited anyway. On top of this, my wife's parents had full designs on inviting 300 people for their side alone.

In an effort to curtail some of this madness, my wife and I made the decision that each of our parents would be able to invite 100 guests and my wife and I would invite 50 between the two of us. Although the parents' guest list was much longer, it was communicated that parents would be responsible for inviting ALL family members (siblings, spouses and guests of siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles and grandpa Sam on his day pass from Kingston Pen). All of those guests would be the responsibility of our respective parents and it was up to them to make sure that the important ones are included.

I would suspect that part of the reason that your daughter does not want your son at the wedding is because there is a limitted number of places and that he just may not be a priority. I would also suspect that your son, no matter how big an ass he can be, would, more than likely have the decorum to put aside his youthful angst for a day. Yes he may look like a freak and maybe your daughter won't want him in the wedding pics (aside from some family shots) but my guess is that if you introduce the "if you're an ass I'm going to rip every piercing out of your head one by one" threat in a constructive way, the little bit of trust that you give him to not be a dick may pay off in spades.

So, in a nutshell, I'd say put him on your guest list. If your daughter protests explain to her how much it would hurt you for your brother not to be there and that, as much as this is her day, as a father of three children, this normally should rank in the top ten happiest days of your life and you would hate to ruin it by not having your only son there.

As for you not attending the wedding? Under no circumstances should you not attend this wedding. Tension between siblings is one thing but by not attending the wedding you would be taking sides in a situation where there seems to be plenty of fault. In fact, as father, you would be abdicating a MAJOR responsibility to your child and ruining one of the most important days of her life.

It may seem a little bit of a cliche, but with the holidays drawing near you may wish to leverage this time of year to try to try to mitigate this wedding situation. Don't try to fool yourself in thinking you will fix their relationship. I promise you that you will not. Odds are that if there is that much animosity between these two than the day when you and their mother are dead and gone will be the day that they no longer communicate in any way ever. That having been said, even nations at war during WWI were able to put aside their differences for a day each Dec. 25th to play a game of soccer between the trenches. Certainly, your children can put their differences aside for a wedding. If not to make themselves a little bit more happy then at least to make you a little happier. It's the least that they can do for their dad.

No matter which way you go, best of luck and I hope everything works out for you and your entire family.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
pool said:
well wtf is the objective here ? ... not to consider all of their feelings, possibly getting their backs up and further isolating them ?

Reality is rarely, if ever, that simple, but that does not mean one shouldn't take the reasonable approach first. Maybe the authoritative act would work out - who knows,everyone is different - but at what cost ? At least if one tries to resolve the real issues first and uses the more "forceful" approach as a last resort, the people involved will perceive a more balanced respect for their issues as individuals. Maybe a combination of both - when dealing with the complexities of humans there is no exact science contrary to the belief of pop psych fans.

bees, honey, money ... meh
to make fun of you- it was just a joke.
 

r2d2

New member
Aug 5, 2003
173
0
0
oakville
my dilemma

I am amazed at the response my dilemma has garnered and I sincerely appreciate the many insightful comments and suggestions.
There is no doubt that my daughter has a lot of growing up to do, and to be quite frank, due to her nature I am not entirely confident that this will be a successful marriage. I have always maintained that my daughter would be a perfect only child. She is very self centered and thinks only of herself. It has been said many times on this board that you may love them, but that does not mean you have to like them----I totally agree. I also believe that she is too young to take this huge step but the event is still one year away so maybe???? she will grow up considerably.
Now the problem at hand. I also had 2 sisters. Unfortunately due to family circumstances (no money) we had to separate the family in order to survive. I never had a relationship with my sisters because of this and it is something I will regret to the day I die. My one sister passed away enexpectedly and my other sister, due to premature health problems, is in a nursing home. Missing the relationship with their siblings is what I am deathly afraid will happen to my family if I allow this situation to go much further. I have told my kids many times that when my wife and I are gone they will only have each other----so far this has fallen on deaf ears.
I believe, what some of you have said, that it is my responsibility to intervene. I must use my life experiences and guide them down the right path for the sake of their future relationships. This situation, if allowed to continue, could do irrepairable damage to my whole family. I am going to take a lot of the advice you have offered and put it on the table. I think my daughter should invite her brother with the proviso of certain expectations since this is a very special family time. The time is long overdue and she has to make the first move to settle the issues. I think you are correct when some have said I should be there regardless of her decision.
Now the ball is in my court and I intend on sitting both her and her fiancee down and have a little heart to heart.
Finally, thank you all for you input, it has certainly helped.
 

Svend

New member
Feb 10, 2005
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Is it possible to quietly sit down with your eldest daughter and talk to her about your feelings? Does she know how you're in pain due to your own family breakup with your sisters?
This might help her realize that her decision affects others.
 

Mongrel4u

Guest
May 27, 2005
3,427
3
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Hey R2D2.... I dont mean to dig this back up but how did it go?


Heres my take on it. You're daughter is a grown woman and the choice is ultimately hers but really... you need to step in and tell her to grow the hell up (which you did already?). This ONE decision could very well change the rest of ALL of your lives as a family... families have fallen apart or come back together during major times like this depending on the choices that are made... I've seen it happen

r2d2 said:
due to her nature I am not entirely confident that this will be a successful marriage.
Yup... shes way too selfish to embark upon a path of marriage. It will only be a matter of time before her husband throws in the towel.... nobody likes an overly selfish person let alone being married to one. She needs to change right now

r2d2 said:
Now the problem at hand. I also had 2 sisters. Unfortunately due to family circumstances (no money) we had to separate the family in order to survive. I never had a relationship with my sisters because of this and it is something I will regret to the day I die. My one sister passed away enexpectedly and my other sister, due to premature health problems, is in a nursing home. Missing the relationship with their siblings is what I am deathly afraid will happen to my family if I allow this situation to go much further. I have told my kids many times that when my wife and I are gone they will only have each other----so far this has fallen on deaf ears.
1) Dont beat yourself up about you're other siblings... its not your fault

2) I know you probably already know this but you have to find a way to get the bolded point into your kid's heads... some way... some how... because it is so true... and as self sufficient as they may be or claim to be... people need love and people need other people - bottom line... and who better to facilitate this than your family?
 
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