September 11th

[SupahotGavin]

9*11*01 nyc...

I have been known to be in the wrong place at the wrong time more than once in my life. I was in town interviewing for a job which would have seen me relocate to NYC. I had a Aussie friend I had met traveling who was living in Boston and we met up in NYC the friday before to make a weekend of it.

On September 9th, the two of us had just an exhausting Sunday afternoon walking through the MOMA and after we decided to head over to the WTC to check out Wild Blue, a bar on the 106th floor to grab a cocktail and chill out.
We had a great time, it was a beautiful day, great vista and views of the NYC sky line. We had a few too many drinks and when we went back to our hotel I had realized I left a Matisse print which I had purchased at the MOMA in the bar. On Monday morning I had my interview, and my friend took a train back to Beantown town. I remember thinking maybe I should stick around the town for a few days, but I grabbed and afternoon flight back to TO (sept 10th). I called the bar and they had my Matisse print but I didn’t think I had enough time to run back over there before my flight so I left...

The next morning my cell phone was ringing off the hook as my Mom, my sisters, my friends, were calling to see if I was still in town. I think about that weekend every year this time comes around...




Gavin

ps... didn’t get a job offer in the end, and NY seemed to be in shambles immediately after. I couldn’t even get anyone to call me back for a few weeks. I think that Bin Laden fella cost me a job in NYC!

 

[Brill]

And this makes their victums less dead how?

They aren't less dead. Someone made the connection to the dead in Iraq and I'm pointing out that Iraq wasn't to blame for the 9/11 attacks.
None of the 19 hijackers were from there.
Even Dubya knew that.

 

[spacyfoil]

They aren't less dead. Someone made the connection to the dead in Iraq and I'm pointing out that Iraq wasn't to blame for the 9/11 attacks.
None of the 19 hijackers were from there.
Even Dubya knew that.

Let us agree that we are all on one side. That is, the side that wants all this bloodshed to stop!

Yes, I know Taliban is not the one who attacked us, it was Al-Qaeda. We are fighting Taliban as they are shielding Al-Qaeda. And yes Iraq had nothing to do with 911, a proven fact now, and yes over 100,000 civilians plus soldiers died there.

The concern is that lets say even if by miracle Osama is caught and hanged today, I believe this Jihadi Ideology will not stop. Just look at Toronto 18, our own kids, born and raised in Canada were brain washed into thinking its okay to destroy our own home.

Only way this will stop is when we stop sleeping with the Middle East governments and force them to stop this kind of thinking being spread there, towards the west. But it is easier to shake hands with the Saudi King as he gives us a deal on Gas. Just like it is so much easier to send our kids and hope they will make everything better. It is so not fair for our troops.

By the way eight years later, Taliban still infests 95% of Afghanistan according to the International Council on Security and Development. And, I for one am tired of waving Canadian Flags standing over bridges on 401 as our young ones go thru Highway of Heroes. I want this to stop NOW!

 

[Aardvark154]

Let us agree that we are all on one side. That is, the side that wants all this bloodshed to stop!

Apparently you want to wait until they blow up the CN Tower.

 

[GDLLover]

Let us agree that we are all on one side. That is, the side that wants all this bloodshed to stop!

Yes, I know Taliban is not the one who attacked us, it was Al-Qaeda. We are fighting Taliban as they are shielding Al-Qaeda. And yes Iraq had nothing to do with 911, a proven fact now, and yes over 100,000 civilians plus soldiers died there.

The concern is that lets say even if by miracle Osama is caught and hanged today, I believe this Jihadi Ideology will not stop. Just look at Toronto 18, our own kids, born and raised in Canada were brain washed into thinking its okay to destroy our own home.

Only way this will stop is when we stop sleeping with the Middle East governments and force them to stop this kind of thinking being spread there, towards the west. But it is easier to shake hands with the Saudi King as he gives us a deal on Gas. Just like it is so much easier to send our kids and hope they will make everything better. It is so not fair for our troops.

By the way eight years later, Taliban still infests 95% of Afghanistan according to the International Council on Security and Development. And, I for one am tired of waving Canadian Flags standing over bridges on 401 as our young ones go thru Highway of Heroes. I want this to stop NOW!

Its unfortunate but the problem is not isolated to the middle east, its also in all countries including here in Canada. See my message #18. These were co-workers that I work with for years and you could imagine my shock with them cheering the destruction of the towers.

To compare its a similar problem to the Nazi era, the fundamental idea of fachism is not violent, but it was the leaders that put a spin on how it was to be executed that made the idea of the european jews undesirable, etc. This idea was propagated by salesmanship of Hitler and Gerbals.

Same situation now. The muslim faith is pieceful, however the spin is fundamental extremism that is sold to the muslim community by salesmanship of Bin Laden saying that America and the western world is evil.

What makes it work is powerful reinforced propaganda, (ever see Al-Jazeer and news clips of public rallies in various middle east countries). With Hitler it was the Nazi rallies and countless parades that united the public to make it feel right to the public.

Bottom line is brainwashing is hard to get rid of.

 

[Keebler Elf]

... the fundamental idea of fachism is not violent, but it was the leaders that put a spin on how it was to be executed that made the idea of the european jews undesirable, etc. This idea was propagated by salesmanship of Hitler and Gerbals.

Not really.

Fascism originated with the Italians under Mussolini, not the Nazis. And while violence per se wasn't an underlying tenet, it most certainly was closely associated with fascism and the whole idea of might makes right.

Fascists routinely engaged in violence with the Communists and the linkage to bullying existed right from the outset.

So to say violence isn't a fundamental part of fascism isn't a true reflection of its association. The fight is a strong part of fascism.

 

[Rockslinger]

The muslim faith is pieceful, however the spin is fundamental extremism that is sold to the muslim community by salesmanship of Bin Laden saying that America and the western world is evil.

Truth be told, it is not just the U.S. and the West but "they" make trouble for everybody. Just ask the Indians, the Chinese, the Russians, etc. "They" even make trouble among themselves.

 

[spacyfoil]

Apparently you want to wait until they blow up the CN Tower.

And which part of my logic makes you think that? I really would like a response, please enlighten me.

 

[spacyfoil]

Truth be told, it is not just the U.S. and the West but "they" make trouble for everybody. Just ask the Indians, the Chinese, the Russians, etc. "They" even make trouble among themselves.

Agreed, this is the Ideology I am talking about. This is what needs to stop. And of course it is difficult, but is it impossible, I don't think so.

Why conservatives equate using mental tactics to being weak is beyond me. Besides, I never said pull out the troops. But I have always maintained that bombing people into submission never works, i.e, by itself.

 

[GDLLover]

Not really.

Fascism originated with the Italians under Mussolini, not the Nazis. And while violence per se wasn't an underlying tenet, it most certainly was closely associated with fascism and the whole idea of might makes right.

Fascists routinely engaged in violence with the Communists and the linkage to bullying existed right from the outset.

So to say violence isn't a fundamental part of fascism isn't a true reflection of its association. The fight is a strong part of fascism.

I hate to say it but you are mostly right as I didn't explain very well. All you said are accurate with regards to the execution of fascism. The point that I tried to get at was that fascism, just like communism & socialism are methods of governing and have related economical methods to run a society. In of itself is possible to run without violence in an idealistic way if all citizens adhere to the structure. Your absolutely right that fascism is almost impossible to execute without violence as the control mechanism because the people normally don't like being controlled this closely.

GDL

 

[spacyfoil]

Apparently you want to wait until they blow up the CN Tower.

Just as I thought, no response from Aardvark.

Ladies and gentlemen this is the other side of coin. Islamic fundamentalist believe that mass destruction will bring west to its knees. And then we have our own people here like Aardvark who believes simple force fighting back will hold them down.

Shame on you Sir, Do you ever stop and think that our military is composed of people just like you and me? They are not expandable! After so many years its time to see what is working and what is not.

But you instead blame me for being weak. Why in the world you think it would be wrong to suppliment our forces with flghting an ideology is beyond me.

Open my eyes, maybe I am wrong. Btw, a simple line calling me names will only make you look arrogant.

 

[papasmerf]

Just as I thought, no response from Aardvark.

Ladies and gentlemen this is the other side of coin. Islamic fundamentalist believe that mass destruction will bring west to its knees. And then we have our own people here like Aardvark who believes simple force fighting back will hold them down.

Shame on you Sir, Do you ever stop and think that our military is composed of people just like you and me? They are not expandable! After so many years its time to see what is working and what is not.

But you instead blame me for being weak. Why in the world you think it would be wrong to suppliment our forces with flghting an ideology is beyond me.

Open my eyes, maybe I am wrong. Btw, a simple line calling me names will only make you look arrogant.

Question is

what do you do if you are wrong?

 

[blackrock13]

You want to get scared, find out how many Conservative Religious Fundamentalist are in command positions in the US military. You will lay awake at nights for a while.

 

[papasmerf]

You want o get scared, find out how many Conservative Religious Fundamentalist are in command positions in the US military. You will lay awake at nights for a while.

You might want to confine that to the political section.

BTW you can post your source and proof there as well as your interest in a foreign military .

 

[blackrock13]

You might want to confine that to the political section.

BTW you can post your source and proof there as well as your interest in a foreign military .

Can't post that many. Just do a search using those words and you'll get a face full of sources.

I'll post in that forum also, if that'll make you feel better. I thought almost anything was gris for this forum's millstone.

 

[papasmerf]

Can't post that many. Just do a search using those words and you'll get a face full of sources.

Politics do not belong in this section. Please refrain from post it here.

 

[blackrock13]

Politics do not belong in this section. Please refrain from post it here.

No let me see, it's religion, the military, and scary stories; works for me.

No politics here boss.

 

[Aardvark154]

And which part of my logic makes you think that? I really would like a response, please enlighten me.

This part:

By the way eight years later, Taliban still infests 95% of Afghanistan according to the International Council on Security and Development. And, I for one am tired of waving Canadian Flags standing over bridges on 401 as our young ones go thru Highway of Heroes. I want this to stop NOW!

The problem is you ignore the fact that Afghanistan was largely ignored, and that an insufficient number of troops were deployed. Further that not nearly enough has been done to rebuild infrastructure and to take and hold ground so that the Taliban can not terrorize villagers.
That is now starting to turn around. If we are unwilling to make the effort to attempt to turn it around and to clear out Taliban control until the time several years in the future when the Afghan National Army has been able in a rational manner to quadruple in size (which they plan to do) and can take over their own security, then Afghanistan is again going to be a haven for terrorists and is going to have even greater destabilizing effect on surrounding countries.

Perhaps I entirely misunderstood your post Spacyfoil, but it didn't sound to me like you were saying we (meaning all of NATO) need to build the number of troops up to where the General's say it should be.

 

[papasmerf]

No let me see, it's religion, the military, and scary stories; works for me.

No politics here boss.

Not my rules 13

 

[Aardvark154]

Just as I thought, no response from Aardvark.

Gee the nerve of me not being here on TERB at your beck and call.