And besides, a re-armed Germany could take Putin's Russia pretty much by itself unaided..... And then start on Austria, the Czech Republic, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, France.... Italy will help Germany out sort of.
Russia invades Ukraine
- Thread starter mandrill
- Start date
And the reason? All the aggressive nation building that they've done since the collapse of Soviet Union. US followed the footsteps of Brits.
Most commentators agree that major powers using conventional armed force against each other is not going to happen. What is worrying though is that the US and Russia both have a nuclear first strike policy.
I get the cynicism, but if it's any indication, German forces in Afghanistan largely refused to go on offensive operations. In other words, they didn't want to fight. I don't think that there's any appetite for war in Germany.
Why would Russia execute the Ukrainian officer corps? Half of them have already defected to the Crimean Autonomous Region, including the newly appointed Commanding Admiral of the Ukranian Navy.
The US is not fading. It stills has the best military money can buy and it spends more on their military then any other country. It's economy is in state of change and when it wakes up it will become number one again.
Germans will fight, Wilbur. I've been to Germany, which is likely more than you have.
True but Stalin came this close to fucking it all up. The Great Purge of the late 30's deprived the USSR of it's top generals. The only reason Zhukov survived, he was fighting the Japanese for control of Vladivostok.
lol, tongue in cheek may be, Germany is already an economic powerhouse and it's only a matter of time before they re-arm, they won't march on Moscow again but they'll become a counter weight to Russia. The French will be too busy with their endless strikes demanding more vacations and higher pay for less work, while Britain will be diminished if it loses a separatist Scotland.
Not sure they did, but they did underestimate the geography. In the case of Hitler he consistently overruled his best generals.
The West may not like it at all (and it certainly will tick the Ukrainians off even more than they already are) but I suspect Russia may well get away with it if this is as far as it goes.
Western Europe is extremely dependent upon Russian Natural Gas and to a lesser degree crude oil, Russia being the world's third largest producer.
Western Europe is extremely dependent upon Russian Natural Gas and to a lesser degree crude oil, Russia being the world's third largest producer.
I bet Ukraine feels like shit for giving up those 1000 nukes after USSR brake up, Putini would think twice with nukes pointed at his ass.
Russia would hardly need to do that, given that Ukraine forces are switching sides en masse in Crimea, including the Admiral of the fleet. Just because the press says it, doesn't mean it's true, especially the Ukrainian press. The provisional government of Ukraine just wants to save face. 20,000 people in a square composed of right-wing trouble makers, plus naive Western Ukrainians hankering for Western Europe utopia does not represent the silent majority electorate of a country of 55 million. The provisional government in Kiev is losing control over Ukranian State agencies because they never really had it in the first place.
They weren't Ukraine's to begin with. And yeah, that's what you want Nuclear War? Too much call of duty cyberboy?
That's why I almost fell out of my chair laughing when a so-called international expert on CBC warned that the EU could punish Russia by boycotting their natural gas. 40% of Europe's natural gas comes from Russia, and it simply cannot be replaced in the short to medium term. During the darkest periods of the Cold War, Soviet gas to Europe was never interrupted.
However, the vast majority of those warheads and weapons platforms were a) obsolete b) of precious little use to deter Russia right next door (an intercontinental ballistic missile to attempt to threaten a target 853 km (530 miles) way?)
(Reuters) - Russia paid a financial price on Monday for its military intervention in neighboring Ukraine, with stocks, bonds and the rouble plunging as President Vladimir Putin's forces tightened their grip on the Russian-speaking Crimea region.
The Moscow stock market fell by 11.3 percent, wiping nearly $60 billion off the value of Russian companies in a day, and the central bank spent $10 billion of its reserves to prop up the rouble as investors took fright at escalating tensions with the West over the former Soviet republic.
Interfax news agency quoted a Ukrainian Defence Ministry source as saying Russia's Black Sea fleet had given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 0300 GMT on Tuesday to surrender or face a military assault. Oleh Chubuk, a spokesman for the Ukrainian navy, said: "We know nothing about this."
Ukraine said Russia was building up armored vehicles on its side of a narrow stretch of water closest to Crimea after Putin declared at the weekend he had the right to invade his neighbor to protect Russian interests and citizens.
Both sides have so far avoided bloodshed, but the market rout highlighted the damage the crisis could wreak on Russia's vulnerable economy, making it harder to balance the budget and potentially undermining business and public support for Putin.
Russian Deputy Economy Minister Andrei Klepach said market "hysteria" would subside but strains with Brussels and Washington - which has threatened visa bans, asset freezes and trade curbs - would remain to weigh on the economy.
On the ground in Perevalnoye, half way between the Crimean capital of Simferopol and the Black Sea, hundreds of Russian troops in trucks and armored vehicles - without national insignia on their uniforms - were surrounding two military compounds, confining Ukrainian soldiers, who have refused to surrender, as virtual prisoners.
The Moscow stock market fell by 11.3 percent, wiping nearly $60 billion off the value of Russian companies in a day, and the central bank spent $10 billion of its reserves to prop up the rouble as investors took fright at escalating tensions with the West over the former Soviet republic.
Interfax news agency quoted a Ukrainian Defence Ministry source as saying Russia's Black Sea fleet had given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 0300 GMT on Tuesday to surrender or face a military assault. Oleh Chubuk, a spokesman for the Ukrainian navy, said: "We know nothing about this."
Ukraine said Russia was building up armored vehicles on its side of a narrow stretch of water closest to Crimea after Putin declared at the weekend he had the right to invade his neighbor to protect Russian interests and citizens.
Both sides have so far avoided bloodshed, but the market rout highlighted the damage the crisis could wreak on Russia's vulnerable economy, making it harder to balance the budget and potentially undermining business and public support for Putin.
Russian Deputy Economy Minister Andrei Klepach said market "hysteria" would subside but strains with Brussels and Washington - which has threatened visa bans, asset freezes and trade curbs - would remain to weigh on the economy.
On the ground in Perevalnoye, half way between the Crimean capital of Simferopol and the Black Sea, hundreds of Russian troops in trucks and armored vehicles - without national insignia on their uniforms - were surrounding two military compounds, confining Ukrainian soldiers, who have refused to surrender, as virtual prisoners.
