We'll see. And you should check to see whether your sources are Russian or more objective.
Russia invades Ukraine
- Thread starter mandrill
- Start date
They are likely as objective as your sources about what happened during the phone conversation between Obama and Putin.
It is quite believable that the ukrainian soldiers in the Crimea would be reluctant to fight the russian army, don't you think?
I'm sure that will cause Putin and Obama to rush back to their strategy meetings and rethink their options.
Russian-speaking Ukrainian army soldiers, for sure. Ukrainian speakers from Kiyev and L'vov are probably pretty enthusiastic about the possibility. We don't know wtf is happening w the Ukrainian army or whether it can / will / wants to fight and hopefully this is one question that doesn't have to be answered. The most daunting scenario yesterday involved a total collapse of the Ukrainian army and a Russian blitzkrieg through the Ukraine to the Polish border. I'm sure that "political units" would have followed closely behind the combat troops to deal with "disruptive elements in the population". Russians tend to do that sort of thing.
I sincerely doubt it. These soldiers are sitting in the Crimea amidst a russian speaking population, surrounded by russian troops, with massive russian military superiority not far away, and getting instructions from an improvised government in Kiev. Fight or live to see another day??
The Ukes did fight the Russians in the early days of WW II before the Nazis made the fatal mistake of pissing them (the Ukes) off.
New head of Ukraine's navy 'defects' in CrimeaPreviousLatest
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Russia vote as it happened
The newly appointed head of Ukraine's navy has sworn allegiance to the Crimea region, in the presence of its unrecognised pro-Russian leader.
Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky was only made head of the navy on Saturday, as the government in Kiev reacted to the threat of Russian invasion.
Russia's troops have been consolidating their hold on Crimea, which is home to its Black Sea Fleet.
The US has warned Moscow may be ejected from the G8 for its actions.
US President Barack Obama called Russian troop deployments a "violation of Ukrainian sovereignty".
'Brink of disaster'
Ukraine has ordered a full military mobilisation in response to Russia's build-up of its forces on the Crimean peninsula. Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has warned the country is "on the brink of disaster".
In Crimea, Ukrainian soldiers faced off with Russian soldiers surrounding their bases on Sunday while the Russian army was said to be digging trenches on the border with mainland Ukraine.
The UK has joined the US, France and Canada in suspending preparations for a summit of the G8 in Russia in June. Nato, of which Ukraine is not a member, is conducting emergency talks.
Admiral Berezovsky appeared before cameras alongside Sergiy Aksyonov, the pro-Russian politician elected by Crimea's regional parliament as local prime minister.
Mr Aksyonov announced he had given orders to Ukrainian naval forces on the peninsula to disregard any orders from the "self-proclaimed" authorities in Kiev.
Sunday, he said, would go down in history as the birthday of the "navy of the autonomous republic of Crimea".
The admiral then pledged to "strictly obey the orders of the supreme commander of the autonomous republic of Crimea" and "defend the lives and freedom" of Crimea's people.
Live
Analysis
Key maps
Crimea exp**********d
Key video
Timeline
Crimea voices
Next Continue reading the main story
Ukraine crisisLatest updates Live
How close to war?
Crimea exp**********d
Russia vote as it happened
The newly appointed head of Ukraine's navy has sworn allegiance to the Crimea region, in the presence of its unrecognised pro-Russian leader.
Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky was only made head of the navy on Saturday, as the government in Kiev reacted to the threat of Russian invasion.
Russia's troops have been consolidating their hold on Crimea, which is home to its Black Sea Fleet.
The US has warned Moscow may be ejected from the G8 for its actions.
US President Barack Obama called Russian troop deployments a "violation of Ukrainian sovereignty".
'Brink of disaster'
Ukraine has ordered a full military mobilisation in response to Russia's build-up of its forces on the Crimean peninsula. Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has warned the country is "on the brink of disaster".
In Crimea, Ukrainian soldiers faced off with Russian soldiers surrounding their bases on Sunday while the Russian army was said to be digging trenches on the border with mainland Ukraine.
The UK has joined the US, France and Canada in suspending preparations for a summit of the G8 in Russia in June. Nato, of which Ukraine is not a member, is conducting emergency talks.
Admiral Berezovsky appeared before cameras alongside Sergiy Aksyonov, the pro-Russian politician elected by Crimea's regional parliament as local prime minister.
Mr Aksyonov announced he had given orders to Ukrainian naval forces on the peninsula to disregard any orders from the "self-proclaimed" authorities in Kiev.
Sunday, he said, would go down in history as the birthday of the "navy of the autonomous republic of Crimea".
The admiral then pledged to "strictly obey the orders of the supreme commander of the autonomous republic of Crimea" and "defend the lives and freedom" of Crimea's people.
Ukranian Navy Chief defects to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, hours after being appointed by provisional government in Kiev.
Previous Ukranian Navy commander resigned.
Half of Ukranian forces in Crimea have joined Crimean security forces. The other half have quit.
Mass demonstrations in Eastern Ukraine cities against provisional government in Kiev.
Sacked Ukranian police corps seek refuge in Eastern Ukraine, welcomed as heroes.
Previous Ukranian Navy commander resigned.
Half of Ukranian forces in Crimea have joined Crimean security forces. The other half have quit.
Mass demonstrations in Eastern Ukraine cities against provisional government in Kiev.
Sacked Ukranian police corps seek refuge in Eastern Ukraine, welcomed as heroes.
You are missing the point that plotting to overthrow a foreign sovereign government is an act of war.
The 2010 Ukranian elections were considered free and fair, and Yanukovych was considered by the international community as legitimately elected. Maybe he's corrupt as hell, but so was Tymoshenko and all previous Ukranian political leaders. By omission, you assume that western leaders, especially the US presidents are models of purity and good intentions. They don't work for the people, they work for big banks, big defense industry, big lobbies (AIPAC) and big Pharma. Because there is no limit to corporate donations to politicians, the US voter hadn't had real influence over their politicians since Eisenhower. It was Eisenhower who warned during his last speech as POTUS of the influence the Military-Industrial complex would have on US politics and foreign policy. Turns out he was absolutely right. The US Corporate agenda has since driven the US standard of living into the ground.
The US has geopolitical goals, and they pay lip service to local democracies only when it suits them.
Just chop Ukraine in half and get it over with...the pro Russian tards can have Russian corruption and shitty life, West half can join the progressive world.
At the barber shop, guy next to me going on and on how Obama is a coward and how the us should be sending troops to Ukraine to push out the Russians. Obama is another chamberlain and we will have to go in and clean it up. Blah blah blah
as I leave to go I go up to the guy, and say- " you are brave man. We need brave guy like you. My friends we. Are from Ukraine we go tonight by air to kyiv to fight- come with us- we kill many russians- its good- we have freight plane go tonight- meet me at air port-you come"
He turns pale and just blubbers.
as I leave to go I go up to the guy, and say- " you are brave man. We need brave guy like you. My friends we. Are from Ukraine we go tonight by air to kyiv to fight- come with us- we kill many russians- its good- we have freight plane go tonight- meet me at air port-you come"
He turns pale and just blubbers.
Save for the fact that Lenin and Stalin were pseudonyms. There is really not much similarity between Ulyanov, Dzhugashvili and Putin.
Yes Crimean Tatars made up a large portion of the population of Crimea before World War II, which doesn't change the fact that there were many Russians living there, that it was Russian from the Reign of Catherine the Great to 1954 and that Ukrainians never lived there.
Save for the "minor" fact that none of Austria had ever been part of Germany let alone part of Germany for two hundred years I'm sure it's a great analogy - not.
Crimea is supposed to have an election at the end of the month. Any bets that they will ask to be annexed to Russia.
Who was doing that? You are setting up a straw man. Supporting peaceful democratic reforms is not plotting to overthrow the government.
Here in Canada the Harper Tories are waging war against Canadian telecom companies and giving virtually free spectrum to foreign telecom companies. Harper Tories are corrupt to the core.
Getting back to Ukraine, let's hope the Russians don't round up the Ukrainian officer corp, take them to a forest near the Polish border and have the KGB summarily murder them. Russia must be a great country if they are playing host to both Snowden and Yanukoyvh.
There are treaties with real teeth in the case of Japan and the U.S., Taiwan (ROC) and the U.S. and the Philippines and the U.S.
In the case of Ukraine the only thing is a treaty vague in the extreme with absolutely no enforcement mechanism and multiparty which merely says the parties agree to support the integrity of Ukraine. That's no article five of the North Atlantic Treaty.
