Rush Limbaugh dead!

[Starstrike]

Yes, 4 articles the contexts of which you've misconstrued. The people reading can indeed see the difference. I've presented you with the distinction between demagoguery and populism in general which you were hitherto ignorant of, while YOU engaged in strawman arguments and no true scottsman fallacies this whole time.

Good luck on your polisci degree, you'll be needing it if your posts here are any indication.

 

[mandrill]

If you're a political science major get your money back, you clearly have not learned a thing. Fascism is historically a far right ideology, usually tied to ultra nationalism. Any cursory glance at history will bear this out. Presenting the South American exception as the rule is the strawman argument.

Democracy has never been respected in South America regardless of the political alignment of it's leaders. You'll be hard pressed to argue that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or 'The Squad fall into that categorization. You'll also be hard-pressed to argue that the majority of fascists historically were left-leaning.

Joe Stalin just asked me to hold his beer.

Ohh and Pol Pot wants me to hold his rice wine sake as well.

 

[Vera.Reis]

Yes, 4 articles the contexts of which you've misconstrued. The people reading can indeed see the difference. I've presented you with the distinction between demagoguery and populism in general which you were hitherto ignorant of, while YOU engaged in strawman arguments and no true scottsman fallacies this whole time.

Good luck on your polisci degree, you'll be needing it if your posts here are any indication.

yes, I am having so much difficulty with my CGPA of 3.78, such difficulty that I got recruited into being in the honors major =)

 

[Vera.Reis]

Joe Stalin just asked me to hold his beer.

Ohh and Pol Pot wants me to hold his rice wine sake as well.

shhh you will get accused of logical fallacies for pointing out left wing fascism!

I also totally missed him using strawman argument wrong

 

[Starstrike]

yes, I am having so much difficulty with my CGPA of 3.78, such difficulty that I got recruited into being in the honors major =)
View attachment 34412 View attachment 34413

Just goes to show how educational standards are falling. You clearly don't know what you're talking about as you can't even define basic terms correctly.

 

[Starstrike]

shhh you will get accused of logical fallacies for pointing out left wing fascism!

I also totally missed him using strawman argument wrong

We've already established you're projecting with your own strawman arguments. Good luck continuing to pretend to be a socialist though. You remind of the Dave "I'm a liberal" Rubin. He's not very bright either.

 

[Starstrike]

Joe Stalin just asked me to hold his beer.

Ohh and Pol Pot wants me to hold his rice wine sake as well.

I raise you Mussolini and Hitler. Throughout history most authoritarians have been traditionalists (Conservatives) not Communist revolutionaries.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

I raise you Mussolini and Hitler. Throughout history most authoritarians have been traditionalists (Conservatives) not Communist revolutionaries.

And yet the body count goes to ......ding ding...we have a couple of winners.....
Stalin and Chairman Mao
I think Pol Pot actually killed more of his people percentage wise than the other two, but their numbers are unchallenged.

 

[Starstrike]

And yet the body count goes to ......ding ding...we have a couple of winners.....
Stalin and Chairman Mao
I think Pol Pot actually killed more of his people percentage wise than the other two, but their numbers are unchallenged.

In a 2v2? Sure. Throughout all of history, definitely not. And today too the body count goes to...ding ding ding...Rightwingers

 

[Vera.Reis]

If there is one thing I've learned, your argument is strengthened by acknowledging some of the short comings of your position and then showing with a well reasoned argument why it is still preferable to the other side. In this case, I had brought up POPULISM that is often fascist, and noted that it exists on the left as well because not doing so is revisionist, fallacious and makes for a weak argument. I never said it was as persistent or as insidious, but it does absolutely no good to act like it only exists on the right, it leaves too much room for the other side to throw you an upper cut just as Robert is doing now.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

If I may throw my two pennies into the above argument, extreme right and extreme left politics are equally dangerous. More often than not, there needs to be an authorative autocrat at the helm to drive both ideologies forward.
There's an old saying that people become more conservative/right-wing as they age. I don't buy that for a moment. If anything, people become more centrist as they age because with age comes the understanding that the world does not operate in terms of black and white -- there's a tonne of grey in the middle.

Canada is very much a mixed economy; it borrows elements of both capitalism and socialism because both ideologies have their virtues. I can't think of a single person I know who thinks the government should own the means of production; likewise, I can't think of a single person I know who thinks Canada should abolish universal healthcare and adopt a US-like system focused on profits over outcomes.

 

[Vera.Reis]

If I may throw my two pennies into the above argument, extreme right and extreme left politics are equally dangerous. More often than not, there needs to be an authorative autocrat at the helm to drive both ideologies forward.
There's an old saying that people become more conservative/right-wing as they age. I don't buy that for a moment. If anything, people become more centrist as they age because with age comes the understanding that the world does not operate in terms of black and white -- there's a tonne of grey in the middle.

Canada is very much a mixed economy; it borrows elements of both capitalism and socialism because both ideologies have their virtues. I can't think of a single person I know who thinks the government should own the means of production; likewise, I can't think of a single person I know who thinks Canada should abolish universal healthcare and adopt a US-like system focused on profits over outcomes.

using logic and reasoning with nuance on TERB?! The audacity. The argument that people grow more right as they age has to do with the idea that people get richer as they age. Often as people acquire more money they want to protect it, and usually the types of policies that do this are conservative ones. Now, for the majority of us who will never see our assets skyrocket, we might start moving more left as we realize the system is rigged.

Let me propose a second concept to owning means of production that does not put the power in any single persons hands, but all of ours.

Mondragon through a Critical Lens

Ten Lessons from a visit to the Basque Cooperative Confederation

medium.com

 

[Starstrike]

If I may throw my two pennies into the above argument, extreme right and extreme left politics are equally dangerous. More often than not, there needs to be an authorative autocrat at the helm to drive both ideologies forward.
There's an old saying that people become more conservative/right-wing as they age. I don't buy that for a moment. If anything, people become more centrist as they age because with age comes the understanding that the world does not operate in terms of black and white -- there's a tonne of grey in the middle.

Canada is very much a mixed economy; it borrows elements of both capitalism and socialism because both ideologies have their virtues. I can't think of a single person I know who thinks the government should own the means of production; likewise, I can't think of a single person I know who thinks Canada should abolish universal healthcare and adopt a US-like system focused on profits over outcomes.

In practice all economies are mixed. What we mean is that certain societies tend more towards Right or Left on the spectrum. In that vein, most civilized societies today are social democracies that lean Left.

Also, social democracy is basically capitalism with a safety net. It is distinct from democratic socialism which is the system in which the government or citizens collectively own the means of production. Few people argue for latter and most want the former. There is just confusion among the general population about that these terms mean.

 

[Insidious Von]

Benito Mussolini should have stuck to massage parlours, he didn't get a happy ending. Clara Petacci should not have been shot.

 

[ShockNAwww]

I understand populism just fine. Populism as a definition, refers to any ideology reflective of the views of a large segment of regular people. Typically, these people feel unrepresented by an elitist establishment.

I'm not interested in your 'no true Scottsman' fallacies. Scandinavia and New Zealand are overwhelmingly leftwing countries, this is common knowledge. The populists in these countries are overwhelmingly leftwing, Jacinda Ardern for instance was elected by a huge majority.

Jacinda Ardern’s latest win was a victory over her populist opponents, in particular Winston Peters of New Zealand First, which is usually a centrist party. Labour won 50.02% of the vote, or 65 of 120 seats. A majority for sure, especially with MMP, but “huge majority” seems a stretch.

Populism isn’t easy to define, but the core element is fundamental. I’m struggling to remember any ‘anti-elite’ or ‘anti-establishment’ messaging in her campaign whatsoever. I heard it here first, if I understand what you’re saying correctly, that Ardern is or ever was a populist by any stretch.

Further than that, it seems pretty clear that her election was a rejection of populism. NZ First ran a largely populism-flavoured campaign and didn’t even win a seat. I’m not sure they’ve ever won less of the popular vote.

For further reading (The Guardian):

Why New Zealand rejected populist ideas other nations have embraced
Labour’s historic win delivered Ardern a second term while voters punished politicians who embraced populism.

 

[Starstrike]

Jacinda Ardern’s latest win was a victory over her populist opponents, in particular Winston Peters of New Zealand First, which is usually a centrist party. Labour won 50.02% of the vote, or 65 of 120 seats. A majority for sure, especially with MMP, but “huge majority” seems a stretch.

Populism isn’t easy to define, but the core element is fundamental. I’m struggling to remember any ‘anti-elite’ or ‘anti-establishment’ messaging in her campaign whatsoever. I heard it here first, if I understand what you’re saying correctly, that Ardern is or ever was a populist by any stretch.

Further than that, it seems pretty clear that her election was a rejection of populism. NZ First ran a largely populism-flavoured campaign and didn’t even win a seat. I’m not sure they’ve ever won less of the popular vote.

For further reading (The Guardian):

Why New Zealand rejected populist ideas other nations have embraced
Labour’s historic win delivered Ardern a second term while voters punished politicians who embraced populism.

I recall the media calling her a populist when she first ran for office in 2017: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphj...ing-rightists-of-new-zealand/?sh=15ee7b03ca94

Regardless, since the establishment in New Zealand is already reflective of the majority populations' views that rhetoric would be unnecessary. So you're probably correct that she didn't use anti-establishment messaging in her campaign since the Left already dominate in that country and the majority population is aligned with it.

As for the significance of her victory, the media called it a landslide and it is the best result the party has had in 5 decades: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54519628

Her opponent, Winston Peters, was a 'populist' in the vein of Donald Trump, using demagoguery about immigration, homosexuality and even advocating for direct democracy which would be disastrous given lay people's ignorance of policy outcomes in general. So, while he have used anti-establishment rhetoric (one element of populism) he didn't have the popular support among the people (another element). New Zealander's don't agree with his socially Conservative policy proposals or cuts to social welfare programs

Now, contrast Ardern with a figure like Bernie Sanders in the US. I would say they are quite close to each other on the political ideological spectrum. However, the US is considered a Rightwing country globally, both the ruling establishment and the general population. The US Democratic Party is more conservative than most conservative parties in other countries, including Canada. So populist rhetoric railing against the establishment is more commonplace from the Left in the US than it would be in New Zealand or Canada. Hence, why Bernie Sanders uses it constantly while Ardern did not.

 

[wigglee]

Rush's message was , just say whatever you think, without concern for anyone's feelings.... so, in solidarity with Rush's style, we happily dance in front of the funeral home, " Ding Dong the Bitch is Dead!"

 

[Robert Mugabe]

Benito Mussolini should have stuck to massage parlours, he didn't get a happy ending. Clara Petacci should not have been shot.

View attachment 34470

What should she have been?

 

[Insidious Von]

What should she have been?

Tarantino's film Inglorious Basterds is based on the Partisans of Northern Italy. Clara Petacci was a pawn drawn to power, I would have sent her to prison for a decade, that's it. She may have been allowed to live but she threw herself in front of Benito as he faced the firing squad. The leader of the Inglorious Bastards later became President of Italy.

 

[Valcazar]

Populism is literally my favorite political science topic

Not all populism is bad, we often need it to hold politicians accountable, but the populist rhetoric we see, whether left wing or right wing, is nearly always anti-democratic and borderline, if not fully, facist.

I've never seen it not go at least to kissing cousins with fascism over time. At the very least, as you say, it goes anti-democratic quickly.
The fact that populism as a toolkit wraps itself in "the voice of the people" while almost immediately careening towards more and more anti-democratic positions is part of why I find it so fascinating.

You'll be hard pressed to argue that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or 'The Squad fall into that categorization.

But they aren't populists. Bernie is closest, I'd say, but he really isn't populist. Some of his fan base is, though, which is why one would expect them in time to drift further and further into right wing rhetoric and the sort of "brown-red alliance" nonsense that always ends so badly.

(you did get the ultranationalism part of fascism right though. It's a very important component that shows up in most of the agreed on definitions

You defined populism wrong and missed the main 2 things that make populism, populism. But what do I know! I've only been studying it for 3 years. Ardern is not a populist, at all. But you do you. I did not make a generalization, I said "nearly" all, because I defile populism correctly and none of the people you are naming are true populists. Using SOME populist rhetoric is not enough to make you a populist.

Imagine thinking getting a majority vote makes you a populist

It's baffling.

Ardern is indeed a populist, her policies are massively popular among the working class.

WTF? Your definition gets weirder and weirder.

Jacinda Ardern is elected in a landslide. Represents the interests of the working class, and when polled the population of New Zealand overwhelmingly favors her policies.

This woman: sHe'S nOt a tRuE pOpUlIsT!

She isn't though.

Look, don't just spew a bunch of articles at me to mask your ineptitude. I'm quite informed on the subject. The fact is, you've conflated demagoguery with populism. Trump is a demagogue, Bernie Sanders is a populist. I'll leave you to figure out the difference on your own, maybe ask your political science professor for help.

Wow, and you threw out "No True Scotsman" at Paola? Hilarious.
At least this and your other post explains your idiosyncratic position better.