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Rush Limbaugh dead!

JeanGary Diablo

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Aug 5, 2017
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For once, I actually agree with Trump on something. Limbaugh is irreplaceable. I cannot imagine them finding a more divisive blowhard to be the shill for the far-right faction of the Republican Party.

Limbaugh wasn't a "conservative" -- he was nothing more than an apologist for the US Republican Party and the very embodiment of the "Ugly American".
 
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Starstrike

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Neither new Zealand nor Scandinavia have any serious left wing populist politicians. There are plenty of right wing populists in the latter though. I'm guessing you don't really understand what populism is, it's a tricky definition, but I can direct you towards some good academic articles if you would like! You need more than the US vs them rhetoric to be truly a populist or else nearly all politicians would be populists.
I understand populism just fine. Populism as a definition, refers to any ideology reflective of the views of a large segment of regular people. Typically, these people feel unrepresented by an elitist establishment.

I'm not interested in your 'no true Scottsman' fallacies. Scandinavia and New Zealand are overwhelmingly leftwing countries, this is common knowledge. The populists in these countries are overwhelmingly leftwing, Jacinda Ardern for instance was elected by a huge majority.
 

Vera.Reis

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I understand populism just fine. Populism as a definition, refers to any ideology reflective of the views of a large segment of regular people. Typically, these people feel unrepresented by an elitist establishment.

I'm not interested in your 'no true Scottsman' fallacies. Scandinavia and New Zealand are overwhelmingly leftwing countries, this is common knowledge. The populists in these countries are overwhelmingly leftwing, Jacinda Ardern for instance was elected by a huge majority.
You defined populism wrong and missed the main 2 things that make populism, populism. But what do I know! I've only been studying it for 3 years. Ardern is not a populist, at all. But you do you. I did not make a generalization, I said "nearly" all, because I defile populism correctly and none of the people you are naming are true populists. Using SOME populist rhetoric is not enough to make you a populist.
 

Vera.Reis

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Me: New Zealand and Scandinavia don't have any serious left wing populist Politicians.

This guy: NeW zEaLaNd AnD sCaNdAnDiNaViA aRe LeFt WiNg CoUnTrIeS

Who tf said they weren't my guy
 
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Vera.Reis

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If you're a political science major get your money back, you clearly have not learned a thing. Fascism is historically a far right ideology, usually tied to ultra nationalism. Any cursory glance at history will bear this out. Presenting the South American exception as the rule is the strawman argument.

Democracy has never been respected in South America regardless of the political alignment of it's leaders. You'll be hard pressed to argue that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or 'The Squad fall into that categorization. You'll also be hard-pressed to argue that the majority of fascists historically were left-leaning.
This hurts my brain.

Strawman argument 1. Fascism is historically a far right ideology, usually tied to ultra nationalism

I never said most fascists' weren't right wing, I never actually said anything fascism in general, just fascist populism, and even then I made no point of which side has more of it.

Strawman argument 2. You'll be hard pressed to argue that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or 'The Squad fall into that categorization.

I actually said none of those people are populists, much less fascists. You said they were populists, I disagree.

Strawman argument 3. You'll also be hard-pressed to argue that the majority of fascists historically were left-leaning.

I never attempted to argue this
 
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Starstrike

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You defined populism wrong and missed the main 2 things that make populism, populism. But what do I know! I've only been studying it for 3 years. Ardern is not a populist, at all. But you do you. I did not make a generalization, I said "nearly" all, because I defile populism correctly and none of the people you are naming are true populists. Using SOME populist rhetoric is not enough to make you a populist.
As I said, get your money back because I'm clearly better educated on this topic than yourself. Ardern is indeed a populist, her policies are massively popular among the working class. You haven't even attempted a definition of populism yet act as if you know what you're talking about, and keep resorting to no true scottsman fallacies without any substance to your posts.
 

Starstrike

Active member
Dec 13, 2020
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This hurts my brain.

Strawman argument 1. Fascism is historically a far right ideology, usually tied to ultra nationalism

I never said most fascists' weren't right wing, I never actually said anything fascism in general, just fascist populism, and even then I made no point of which side has more of it.

Strawman argument 2. You'll be hard pressed to argue that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or 'The Squad fall into that categorization.

I actually said none of those people are populists, much less fascists. You said they were populists, I disagree.

Strawman argument 3. You'll also be hard-pressed to argue that the majority of fascists historically were left-leaning.

I never attempted to argue this
1) "but the populist rhetoric we see, whether left wing or right wing, is nearly always anti-democratic and borderline, if not fully, facist." <---Proceeds to use the South American exception as representative of this claim that most leftwing populism is anti-democratic. Meanwhile, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of leftwing populism across the globe is all about decentralization of power back to the masses.

2) Oh, so you're just ignoring reality then. The people I mentioned are indeed populists, both in appeal and in policy proposals.

3) See point 1.
 

Starstrike

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Dec 13, 2020
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Me: New Zealand and Scandinavia don't have any serious left wing populist Politicians.

This guy: NeW zEaLaNd AnD sCaNdAnDiNaViA aRe LeFt WiNg CoUnTrIeS

Who tf said they weren't my guy
Jacinda Ardern is elected in a landslide. Represents the interests of the working class, and when polled the population of New Zealand overwhelmingly favors her policies.

This woman: sHe'S nOt a tRuE pOpUlIsT!
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
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As I said, get your money back because I'm clearly better educated on this topic than yourself. Ardern is indeed a populist, her policies are massively popular among the working class. You haven't even attempted a definition of populism yet act as if you know what you're talking about, and keep resorting to no true scottsman fallacies without any substance to your posts.
Populism requires an us vs them narrative, usually it is us the people vs the elite, but there is also the us the real people of this country vs the outsiders. Populism also requires either the manufacturing or exaggeration of a crisis. Populism requires that the politician represents themselves as the ONLY option to solve whatever crisis they are creating or exaggerating. Orban in Hungary, Brexit supporters, Trump like to use an over exaggerated threat caused by immigrants.

The people you mentioned do not use these tactics.
 
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Starstrike

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Populism requires an us vs them narrative, usually it is us the people vs the elite, but there is also the us the real people of this country vs the outsiders. Populism also requires either the manufacturing or exaggeration of a crisis. Populism requires that the politician represents themselves as the ONLY option to solve whatever crisis they are creating or exaggerating. Orban in Hungary, Brexit supporters, Trump like to use an over exaggerated threat caused by immigrants.

The people you mentioned do not use these tactics.
Wrong. That's called demagoguery, and it is not synonymous with populism. Like I said, get your money back.
 

Vera.Reis

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Wrong. That's called demagoguery, and it is not synonymous with populism. Like I said, get your money back.
Do not dilute populism to a single trait, it needs all of them to be populist, not just one. I'll just leave you with these.

Bermeo, Nancy. 2016. "On Democratic Backsliding." Journal of Democracy 27 (1): 5-19.

Moffitt, Benjamin. 2014. "How to Perform Crisis: A Model for Understanding the Key Role of Crisis in Contemporary Populism." Government and Opposition 50 (2): 189-217.

Özpeka, Burak and Nebahat Yaşarb. 2018. "Populism and Foreign Policy in Turkey Under the AKP Rule." Turkish Studies 19 (2): 198-216.

Palonen, Emilia. 2008. "Performing the Nation: The Janus-Faced Populist Foundations of Illiberalism in Hungary." Journal of Contemporary European Studies 26 (3): 308-321.
 
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Starstrike

Active member
Dec 13, 2020
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Do not dilute populism to a single trait, it needs all of them to be populist, not just one. I'll just leave you with these.

Bermeo, Nancy. 2016. "On Democratic Backsliding." Journal of Democracy 27 (1): 5-19.

Moffitt, Benjamin. 2014. "How to Perform Crisis: A Model for Understanding the Key Role of Crisis in Contemporary Populism." Government and Opposition 50 (2): 189-217.

Özpeka, Burak and Nebahat Yaşarb. 2018. "Populism and Foreign Policy in Turkey Under the AKP Rule." Turkish Studies 19 (2): 198-216.

Palonen, Emilia. 2008. "Performing the Nation: The Janus-Faced Populist Foundations of Illiberalism in Hungary." Journal of Contemporary European Studies 26 (3): 308-321.
Look, don't just spew a bunch of articles at me to mask your ineptitude. I'm quite informed on the subject. The fact is, you've conflated demagoguery with populism. Trump is a demagogue, Bernie Sanders is a populist. I'll leave you to figure out the difference on your own, maybe ask your political science professor for help.
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
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Look, don't just spew a bunch of articles at me to mask your ineptitude. I'm quite informed on the subject. The fact is, you've conflated demagoguery with populism. Trump is a demagogue, Bernie Sanders is a populist. I'll leave you to figure out the difference on your own, maybe ask your political science professor for help.
The articles I sent you, the first two were from class material, the second 2 are from my own research for papers I've done on the subject. Populism includes some traits of demagoguery, not all demagoguery is populism and so you are correct that they are not synonymous, but you are incorrect as to why.

Plenty of "populist" politicians never gain traction because populism has nothing to do with popularity but is mostly in regards type of rhetoric you use.

Trump is a right wing populist, Bernie Sanders is a socialist who uses the occasional populist rhetoric but it is not his main agenda so he is not a populist.
 
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Starstrike

Active member
Dec 13, 2020
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The articles I sent you, the first two were from class material, the second 2 are from my own research for papers I've done on the subject. Populism includes some traits of demagoguery, not all demagoguery is populism and so you are correct that they are not synonymous, but you are incorrect as to why.

Plenty of "populist" politicians never gain traction because populism has nothing to do with popularity but is mostly in regards type of rhetoric you use.

Trump is a right wing populist, Bernie Sanders is a socialist who uses the occasional populist rhetoric but it is not his main agenda so he is not a populist.
No, populism doesn't inherently include any demagoguery at all. Demagoguery is a specific brand of populism that appeals to irrational fears rather than substantive concerns.

Plenty of populists don't gain traction because there are powerful elitist forces at work against them. Yes, rhetoric is one aspect of populism, sure, another is representing the interests of common people. A 'populist' who does not represent the interests of the people but only pretends to, while relying on an appeal to xenophobia and other irrational fears to gain support, is called a demagogue.

Trump is a Rightwing populist but he is a demagogue. Bernie Sanders is a Leftwing populist, and is NOT a demagogue because his rhetoric is laced with appeals to rationality not bigotry and exclusionism.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
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Don't want to speak to ill of the dead, but to his millions of Dittiots out there :mad:🖕...
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
823
911
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Toronto
No, populism doesn't inherently include any demagoguery at all. Demagoguery is a specific brand of populism that appeals to irrational fears rather than substantive concerns.

Plenty of populists don't gain traction because there are powerful elitist forces at work against them. Yes, rhetoric is one aspect of populism, sure, another is representing the interests of common people. A 'populist' who does not represent the interests of the people but only pretends to, while relying on an appeal to xenophobia and other irrational fears to gain support, is called a demagogue.

Trump is a Rightwing populist but he is a demagogue. Bernie Sanders is a Leftwing populist, and is NOT a demagogue because his rhetoric is laced with appeals to rationality not bigotry and exclusionism.
The overwhelming majority of populist academic literature doesn't agree with you, but I hope you are very proud of your google degree =)
 
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