Righties routed on the Prairies - MB goes orange

tml

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2011
5,381
3,117
113
Backlash victory.

Previous Premier made a controversial statement offending Natives. The NDP leader is Native.

Do the math.
To his credit, from the video clips I viewed throughout the campaign he didn't make a big deal out of his background. It was others, like the media, that did.
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
4,555
2,458
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You see spending the same per capita as other provinces on health care as 'beyond reason'?
No Frank, I’m not sure how to word it. We actually have and have had, the leanest per capita Public Service in Canada ( public servants per 100,000 residents), for well over a decade.

let’s just assume that number is 10,000 public servants per 100,000 residents, since say 2010. This number hasn’t changed..10k/100k. And it’s the leanest!!!! So given we are Ontario, maybe that should be 11 or 12k/100k to begin with???

When our population was 6,000,000

Today we have 10k public servants/100k ( if that) residents. But the population is 7,000,000

On top of that we are in debt up to our eyeballs. That means we really can’t borrow much more. It also means the interest we pay on that debt is much higher. I’m not interested in digging up the actual numbers, this is purely for illustration.

In 2003 when our debt was a fraction of what it is today. Interest payments might have been $1 billion. Today those interest payments are $3 or $5 Billion.

back to “per capita”
In 2012 and when our population at that time we needed to hire almost 700 RNs alone per year for our population growth at that time….This number is from the ONA. Each year so that the number of nurses versus the number of residents was adequate for all the people going to ERs and more.

Today, our population is not only growing, it’s growing faster ( the fastest in NA) . So it’s no longer 700 RNs per year, it’s maybe 750 or 800 RNs per year..plus every single other job, in healthcare and public service…

Way back, when Don Drummond created that report while he said many things, warned us about many things. The gist of it was. We needed to

Freeze spending AND raise revenue. Or cut deeply……6 of 1……1/2 dozen of another. But we were already the leanest!!!!!!!!

Back to Manitoba.
A few posters who are likely more in tune than us have pointed out the bureaucracy is huge…No idea what their finances are like, what their expenses are like, what their revenue is like. I’ll guess not good. Whatever the specific details, I’m confident their population isn’t growing like ours is.

Regardless, it all comes back to the same things. We don’t have the $$. Ford is not cutting, has not cut funding to healthcare ( just look at the graph)…it’s possible he has somewhere, but healthcare…..we/they simply can’t keep up…per se.

Our population is also getting older and we have Boomers retiring…That too, means more services required, more people going ERs, more knee replacements, more cataracts, more strokes and heart attacks more expenses….

You want to know why there are more code blacks today ( ER closures)….? It’s because there are way more people going to the ERs, and not enough staff… and there are reasons for that, that aren’t due to healthcare cuts.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
22,266
113
No Frank, I’m not sure how to word it. We actually have and have had, the leanest per capita Public Service in Canada ( public servants per 100,000 residents), for well over a decade.

let’s just assume that number is 10,000 public servants per 100,000 residents, since say 2010. This number hasn’t changed..10k/100k. And it’s the leanest!!!! So given we are Ontario, maybe that should be 11 or 12k/100k to begin with???

When our population was 6,000,000

Today we have 10k public servants/100k ( if that) residents. But the population is 7,000,000

On top of that we are in debt up to our eyeballs. That means we really can’t borrow much more. It also means the interest we pay on that debt is much higher. I’m not interested in digging up the actual numbers, this is purely for illustration.

In 2003 when our debt was a fraction of what it is today. Interest payments might have been $1 billion. Today those interest payments are $3 or $5 Billion.

back to “per capita”
In 2012 and when our population at that time we needed to hire almost 700 RNs alone per year for our population growth at that time….This number is from the ONA. Each year so that the number of nurses versus the number of residents was adequate for all the people going to ERs and more.

Today, our population is not only growing, it’s growing faster ( the fastest in NA) . So it’s no longer 700 RNs per year, it’s maybe 750 or 800 RNs per year..plus every single other job, in healthcare and public service…

Way back, when Don Drummond created that report while he said many things, warned us about many things. The gist of it was. We needed to

Freeze spending AND raise revenue. Or cut deeply……6 of 1……1/2 dozen of another. But we were already the leanest!!!!!!!!

Back to Manitoba.
A few posters who are likely more in tune than us have pointed out the bureaucracy is huge…No idea what their finances are like, what their expenses are like, what their revenue is like. I’ll guess not good. Whatever the specific details, I’m confident their population isn’t growing like ours is.

Regardless, it all comes back to the same things. We don’t have the $$. Ford is not cutting, has not cut funding to healthcare ( just look at the graph)…it’s possible he has somewhere, but healthcare…..we/they simply can’t keep up…per se.

Our population is also getting older and we have Boomers retiring…That too, means more services required, more people going ERs, more knee replacements, more cataracts, more strokes and heart attacks more expenses….

You want to know why there are more code blacks today ( ER closures)….? It’s because there are way more people going to the ERs, and not enough staff… and there are reasons for that, that aren’t due to healthcare cuts.
Why does your post make it look like you don't understand what per capita means?

Cancel Ontario Place, cancel the 413 and reinstate corporate taxes that were cut earlier to raise revenues.
Then spend the money we give the government to get the services we want.
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
4,555
2,458
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Because imo, this is an extremely important discussion. Especially with Boomers about to crush everyone. And an exploding population. The fastest in North America.

per capita analsis
.

Ontario
Ontario historically
On a per capita basis, there were approximately 8.2 Ontario public servants for every 1,000 Ontarians in 1990–91. By 2015–16, the ratio decreased to approximately 4.6 for every 1,000. Stated another way, in 1990–91 there were 122 citizens for every Ontario public servant, versus 217 in 2015–16.
.

Ontario today
Ontario’s total revenue per capita was the second lowest in Canada
Ontario’s program spending per capita continues to be the lowest in the country
Revenues
Canadian provinces receive revenue from taxation, federal transfers and other non-tax sources. In 2020, these sources generated $11,031 in total revenue per person in Ontario, the second lowest in the country and $1,980 (15.2 per cent) below the average in the rest of Canada
While there’s more, a lot more starting with debt levels, debt to gdp, debt serving cost ( just because rates were low…double or triple the debt and…)

. For the sake of brevity program spending translates to head count
 
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DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
2,233
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Only two of the hospitals are full line hospitals and those are jammed full of crackheads, gangbangers and degenerates most days. The ERs are something out of a horror movie on a Sat night. There are 3 urgent cares which would be fine but people use them like a walk-in so expect 10 waits.
Yeah it makes sense to me. A common comment I would read was you have a high chance of getting knifed up late at night.

I don't know how they will keep funding Government services without addressing the lack of private sector growth.
 
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DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
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To his credit, from the video clips I viewed throughout the campaign he didn't make a big deal out of his background. It was others, like the media, that did.
He did address them in his victory speech. But in a sort of underhanded and encouraging way.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
22,266
113
Because imo, this is an extremely important discussion. Especially with Boomers about to crush everyone. And an exploding population. The fastest in North America.

per capita analsis
.

Ontario
Ontario historically

.

Ontario today






While there’s more, a lot more starting with debt levels, debt to gdp, debt serving cost ( just because rates were low…double or triple the debt and…)

. For the sake of brevity program spending translates to head count
So you're posting that Ontario now has barely more than 1/2 the public servants than we had a decade or two ago as proof that we should cut more?
This is your rationale to cut a health care program that is already being cut by DoFo even more?
Even with emergency rooms closing, no family doctors and shortages of ambulances?
 

wpgguy

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2005
1,101
311
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Then conservatives come in and say they will cut.
But the cut nurses and teachers instead of admin.
Every time.
Health and education funding were up the last three years in a Manitoba, don’t believe the bullshit the unions spoon feed you.
it’s the schools divisions that hire the teachers not the MLAs. Like I said about we have way too many divisions. 7 divisions, 7 Superintendent about 25 Asst Superintendents and about 60 trustees, all for a city of 750,000.
Every time the PCs try to amalgamate divisions the NDP and teachers union scream bloody murder. Same nonsense health care. Under the NDP we had about 150 separate bargains units. The PCs got it down by about 20% but it was fight. The public sector unions are sucking up a ton of money and its going to get worse, The unions actual control about 1/3 of the votes for NDP leader here.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
7,346
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45.5 to 42.1 percent. A rout huh.
I guess that is like how if the Leafs beat the Habs 5 to 4 it's either a crushing victory or a narrow close loss depending on what colours you wear.

The more I read on this section of the forum the more I become literally convinced that strange women in ponds giving out swords is the way to go.

Oh and as the NDP didn't get 50% plus 1 of the vote, I am sure they will be sharing power with another party in the spirit of prop rep... oh wait, nah, that ain't gonna happen.
 
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